Lazy Wheel Aligner syndrome

[swamp]

hi
I am writting this to make people more aware of such poor workmanship its absolutely outstanding failure and more common than u think .

BT50 model un ==same as PjPk Ranger 4x4
Vehicle one owner prior from new
Fixed all the front end
This vehicle had never been wheel aligned in 200,000km

Business Tyre Power
W/align attempts twice
Prior to W/A ,, drift left from effects of worn out parts now resulting odd wear in tyre.

--------------------------------------------
ABSOLUTE LIES 1st attempt
"""cannot adjust shims because there is no thread left"""
-------------------------------------------------------
U can see the adjusters with xtra thread 6mm min sticking out !!!!!!!!
Vehicle drifts of the LHS of road
Reported to manager

2nd attempt adjusted caster and toe-in only

-************************************************** *******************-
RESULTS
caster is correct 2.5pos LHS //// 2.0 pos RHS ,,,,stable slightly heavy =GOOD

camber is a complete stuff up is an example of the LAZY W/Aligner tech
camber factory spec 45pos minutes [60 min to a degree ]
Both front wheels at 45pos MINUTES CAMBER ,,, this should never be done
THIS WILL CAUSE UNCONTROLLED DRIFT TO CURB SIDE

LHS CAMBER NEEDS
"o" deg camber up to 10min negative

Vehicle will then be stable on a cambered road surface and not have drift to LHS

------------------------------------------------------------------------
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A GOOD AND BAD W/ALIGNED VEHICLE IS NIGHT AND DAY
-------------------------------------------------------
SOUND SIMIAR TO THE OTHER POST about Bridgestone

.............lazy wheel aligner strikes again

[matty88]

Did they road test? My local Bob Janes in Victoria don't due to insurance reasons. Have had multiple vehicles returned to them with crooked steering wheels

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by matty88

Did they road test? My local Bob Janes in Victoria don't due to insurance reasons. Have had multiple vehicles returned to them with crooked steering wheels

I had $125,000 worth of cover for customer vehicle on test drive when I had my own workshop, and I was 23, it was 'expensive' (what I considered expensive at the time - $7000 PA) but how can you have an automotive workshop and not be covered for insurance for driving customer vehicles

Thats the most ridiculous thing I've heard. I'm not doubting its true but JFC, how can you not test drive customer vehicle after carrying out work - its part of the verification process.

I reckon they've got young unqualified monkeys working in the workshop and no insurance company will touch them, probably don't even have drivers licences - ****ing clown show industry.

[BENT_8]

I refer to it as a toe adjustment as hardly any tyre retailers out there can do a proper wheel alignment.

I remember when I rebuilt my XE with all new front end parts, drag, idler, tie rods etc.
Couldnt have it professionally aligned until the straight gas install had been done, so I went old skool and string lined it.
Drove it from gas fitter to closest tyre shop and couldnt believe it when a bloke in his 50's came out with the keys instead of the work experience kid.
We got chatting as he set it up on the hoist and explained he remembered cutting his teeth on that era Falcon which are fully adjustable.
He commented that for a string job in my back yard it was pretty bloody close and he fine tuned it.
He then said he blamed Holdens crappy Mcpherson strut Commodore setup for the art dying as once the strut tops collapsed back and inwards, toe was all that was left and it made WA techs lazy.

Nothing has changed almost 20yrs later.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I refer to it as a toe adjustment as hardly any tyre retailers out there can do a proper wheel alignment.

I remember when I rebuilt my XE with all new front end parts, drag, idler, tie rods etc.
Couldnt have it professionally aligned until the straight gas install had been done, so I went old skool and string lined it.
Drove it from gas fitter to closest tyre shop and couldnt believe it when a bloke in his 50's came out with the keys instead of the work experience kid.
We got chatting as he set it up on the hoist and explained he remembered cutting his teeth on that era Falcon which are fully adjustable.
He commented that for a string job in my back yard it was pretty bloody close and he fine tuned it.
He then said he blamed Holdens crappy Mcpherson strut Commodore setup for the art dying as once the strut tops collapsed back and inwards, toe was all that was left and it made WA techs lazy.

Nothing has changed almost 20yrs later.

2010 I was a first year apprentice at a dealership and we had a guy in his 50s working with us who used to own a tyre shop, then lost everything in a divorce.

I was helping one of the other qualifieds on a service, this guy came in with a piece of chalk and by eye adjusted the wheel alignment with a couple spanners

Took it for a drive, it steered bang on straight and was within 0.5mm on spec when we hooked it up on the wheel alignment machine.

I couldn't believe it, I asked him how he did it and he just said experience, to this day it's still impressive to me.

That sort of passion, care and skill is long gone from the industry

[aussiblue]

What state. The two I referred to here https://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11502300 were Tyrepowers:

Even my low expectations are sometimes not met. e,g one franchise dealer ran out of standard tyre valves so fitted an extra long truck duel wheel ones that got cut off by the curb while parking later the same day (and given the fitter was actually a friend of one of my sons I was hoping for better), another removed all the shims from my upper A arms that had been fitted to adjust the camber and castor on my Fairlane to spec claiming it was too hard to align the wheels with them in place (they wouldn't even return the shims when I asked getting very aggro and claiming they were unneeded had binned them).

I think the franchisee or staff at least at the Bibra Lake and Jandakot stores that I had issues at have since changed. Since then I have used their O'Connor store last two times I needed tyres which seem much better. I was using World of Tyres (Ex Ian Diffen) Myaree for a while before that but they suddenly went downhill too. Went back to Tyrepower but in O'Connor after surveying friend, neighbours, community facebook groups and probably most reliably https://www.productreview.com.au for recommendations and reviews.

[swamp]

hi
Many cars you can predict measurement "" typical 5 threads gap "" etc etc or by common trye wear for that model
Noticeable tyre wear
camber
toe in
caster does not usually case tyre wear unless way excessive and effecting geometry change during turning .


A 4x4 car
caster 2deg pos [+/- 1 deg ] [max 1/2 deg difference side to side ]
camber 50 pos minutes [+/- 1 degree ]
Total toe in 2-5mm


For a normal car under normal conditions

Caster you will feel 1.5 degree pos is light as a feather
wandering steering is a function of light total caster and more likely not enough difference LH VS RH
You can feel weight of steering and drift tendencies
I u do wheel aligns by feel 1/2 +/- deg accuracy caster

Camber under a degree accuracy hard to feel

Toe in u never feel
-----------------------------
On a shim adjusted top A arm ,, reasonably similar for most shim adjusted cars
different thickness of shims represent different change amounts

camber shim 1mm change 15 minutes [1/4 degree ]
VS
Caster shim 1mm change = 30minutes [1/2 degree ]

My 4x4 2021 hilux was light as a feather constant steering wheel correction ,, annoying at high way speed
Caster around 1.5 degrees and no caster split

4x4 Bt50,Pj,Pk 2011
Caster around 1.6--1.8 deg pos ,,,not high enough and not enough split

All below was needed to be repaired to achieve good wheel align and good tyre wear and good handling
Ride height ie sagged rear leaf pack effects handling
seized stiff worn shocks influence body roll and weight transfer
front torsion rods never adjusted to factory spec ride height

[OneMadMan]

As some of you may have noticed.. I had a mint N16 Pulsar. One owner, 91,000kms never hit anything but pulled to the left. Went to local tyre shop, paid my $75 clams.
The whole process took about 18 minutes to complete. Hmmm, something dodgy here me thinks. .

Point 1: didn't road test car before putting a spanner on it.
Point 2: didn't roadie the car after the alignment.
Point 3: didn't bother asking me why I wanted an alignment done. (Strange, 1st time that's happened).
Point 4: got the car back, took it around the block, and guess what?
It drove exactly the same. Still pulled to the left.

Took it back a week later, as I was to busy to deal with it on the day they did the alignment...

I said to the young lad who greeted me in the car park, (like the greeting you'd get when walking into a 2nd hand car dealer) "mate, it's no different. Still pulls to the left.

Could you please have the tech take it for a drive both before and after doing the alignment".
He said: "Mate, we can drive it as far and as long as you like".
At this point I wanted to split his head open. I was angry.
So I replied, yeah, you do that... I have just filled it up...

Waited, tech took it for a quick spin, got the car back without any work being done on it, with the original invoice that said in hand written blue ink.. "pulls to the left".

The wise guy whipper snapper tells me "that it's within spec and there's not much more we can do... We can fiddle with it if you like, to see if we can get it any better"...

FFS... fiddle with it?. I mean C'mon...

Anyway, when I was at a mates workshop fitting a new exhaust system on it a couple of days later, I noticed that the 2 front tyres were of different brands, same size, just not the same make, tread pattern and more importantly, tread depth.

So I swapped them left to right while it was in the air.. and whadda ya know?
Drove perfectly straight. Exactly as It should.

Why didn't they think of that?
Why do I have to do THEIR JOB. That's why I paid the $$$ in the 1st place.

LAZY, slack fsckers.

Now I have to spend the extra time and distance to see another mate of mine at Pedders (the manager) who I've known for 20+ years. I have moved, and now it's like a 50 minute trek just to get to see him, and now that they aren't open sat mornings... it's just to hard to get time to get it done right the 1st time.

One Man Says:
If it's got wheels or t i t s your gunna have problems with it...




Cheers,

One Man