Caught- but does this sound dodgy?

rodderz · 18-01-2005, 10:27 PM

Heard an interesting story off the young fella at work today, he is 19 and drives a Nissan 180SX, stock except for a mild exhaust system.

The other day he was driving into a shopping centre, and proceded to grab a parking spot out the front of a JB HiFi store, where he was immediately greeted by a traffic operations cop in an unmarked XR8. The copper proceded to ask him what he had done to the car (quite arrogant), which he replied. The officer told him that the power:weight ratio was illegal for him to drive this car, so no more driving till he's fully licensed. Vicroads and the insurer had previously told him that his car was not on the list of banned cars for P Platers, which causes some confusion and clashes between agencies.

He then did a noise test on the car, revved out to 4000rpm all while the music was being played out the front of the JB Hifi store....to which protests fell on deaf ears. It was over by about 5 decibels. Then a series of photo's was taken of the car, not sure if this is allowed or could be considered an invasion of privacy? Apparently this copper has quite a nasty reputation, trolls the Sylvia Forums and while he is doing his job, seems a bit over the top. The way the story was explained to me it sounded a bit suss, so i told him i'd ask around on here to get some similar stories and advice

I think there has to be some clamping down on P platers and what they can drive...but what do you think, is this over the top and cause for some sort of clarification by vicroads etc as to what is and isnt allowed? This guy isnt a hoon by the way, the car is quite a weapon for being 14 or so years old but doesnt drive it out of the ordinary

dansedgli · 18-01-2005, 10:32 PM

Ahh another victim for Pettit I see.

This guy hassles my mate about his skyline all the time. It is standard but he cant drive it due to power to weight. Somehow the police officer knew my friends email address too which he thought was wierd.

Other than stories of this buy being really strict on P platers I have never witnessed first hand what he does.

A sound test outside of JB sounds a bit unfair. Did he used a proper measuring tool or his ears to test the noise?

Doug had pictures taken of his car when he was inspected by police at springnats as well. Someone told me they use it to teach newbies what parts are what on a car.

rodderz · 18-01-2005, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansedgli

Ahh another victim for Pettit I see.

lol...thats him, goes to show how big his reputation is

Apparently he's been threatened by a whole heap of guys too. Goes to show you never know who's watching forums, checking out when cruises are etc

Psycho Chicken · 18-01-2005, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansedgli

Ahh another victim for Pettit I see.

I thought that straight away!

This guy doesn't seem to hand out canaries, just fine you left right and centre.

Can't see how a sound level check in an uncontrolled environment is possibly legal.

CAMS290 · 19-01-2005, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansedgli

Ahh another victim for Pettit I see.

Small world this!!! My first girlfriend was married to Mr Pettit, and he was a nice bloke. He really loved his Fords, but hated ricers and Holdens.
I havent seen him for years, he may of changed since then.

Psycho Chicken · 19-01-2005, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAMS290

I havent seen him for years, he may of changed since then.

I'll grab a rex from work, you can borrow my p plates for the night. Drive around Knox and you're bound to catch up with him.

Blessed XR8 · 20-01-2005, 08:46 PM

My first car was an 89 EA S Pack. Uprated but not lowered suspension and a mild sports exhaust. The day I had the exhaust fitted I was pulled over and had the privalage of watching 2 of my locals finest go over the car with a fine tooth comb. The found nothing in or on the car, so they had a look under. "AHA!" Shiny new exhaust. The original cat was still fitted to save a few bucks, but apparently this wasn't the reason why I had retained it. No way. Not possible. I'm lying. I had apparently retained it because while it was removed from under the car, and before it was replaced, punched the guts out of it so it was straight through...

Well, there was a very heated argument about wether or not I had to get on my hands and knees and remove the cat to prove without a doubt that I was the one in the wrong because these bastards new better. Another car was called as I was becoming agitated. Luckily, the two new arivals had a different approach and decided the situation would be better resolved at our local RTA pits. So I received my canarie and was off to the pits first thing the next day... and guess what...

Still had a few altercations like this, being on my P's and all, but nothing comes close to all the shit I went through with my next car. EFII XR6, Hot Chilli Red. Nothing out of the ordinary. Standard bar the exhaust. Not long after having purchased my new baby, I found myself being constantly pulled over and throroughly searched. Everytime they demanded to look in my glovebox and gave me the option of giving them my permission to search the glovebox or getting f****d around and waiting till the produced a warrant to do so. They never found anything. There were plenty of other strange occurances where I was followed beyond normal reason and it really, and I mean really started to **** me off. So I wrote a letter. No reply. So I called my local member and with their(ok, one of their assitants/underlings/minions) help prepared another. They replied in kind with their own letter saying they were looking into my complaint and gave me a referance number for my complaint as well as a number to contact. All I ever got from that number was lost somewhere in the system. Minutes turned to hours until someone just hung up on you.

Then one day I had an accident. Silly lady decided to chuck a u-turn acroos double white lines in frontof me and slam on the brakes... and yes I got done for Neg driving despite two other drivers stopping and supporting my version of events... I was booked before the lady decided to collapse and needed to be take to hospital. In between all of this and immeadiately after the police have taken my license back to do their check up the tow truck driver I chose from the mob comes flying down the road "Hey mate, looks like your in a nough shit as it is. If you've got anything in the car you don't want them to find I'll hide it in me truck and give it back when they go."

I looked at him with a pretty stupid look on my face. I didn't nkow what he was on about nor did I want any of what he was smoking. I asked him to explain. He had his scanner on and heard them radio my details back to the shop. The reply came back to "Search the car. Owner expected drug runner."

I had to laugh. I nearly cried. I let them search the car with a big smile on my face. When I got home I phoned a friend who's uncle is on the force. Got his uncle's number. Rang him and explained my story. He told me to go the head office and ask them to take the intel off my car as it had changed hands. I did. They were very uncoporative which resulted in my having to drive back home to get my copy of the sales paperwork. That satisfied them to a certain degree. They backed off.

From then on I've kept a digital note taker in my centre console. If I'm pulled over and they start with their shit I ask the cop at my window if he minds if I record the converstaion. Sometimes they walk away, sometimes it really ****es 'em off. But they don't dare give me any more shit...

All of this will be bridge under the water after 5pm tomorrow. Pick up my XR8. Happy times ahead... very happy times...

To get this post somewhere around the topic, I'm sure there is a standard for ambient dB. If it's not in a controlled enviroment it doesn't count... or at leats I thought...

svo347 · 18-01-2005, 10:33 PM

Sounds like a load of shit & your friend Really should have asked for the coppers name & badge number

NZ · 18-01-2005, 10:41 PM

Wheres that lynch mob

rodderz · 18-01-2005, 10:50 PM

So is the legal way of measuring Db rating holding revs at 4000rpm? I'm sure i've heard some performance shops getting EPA testing done that it's done at idle...or is this a separate test?

dansedgli · 18-01-2005, 10:52 PM

I think it depends on the Rev limit, at springnats Dave was sound tested by the police and had to hold revs at 2500-3000

Psycho Chicken · 18-01-2005, 11:04 PM

It's actually where the car produces peak power.

There's a massive list of cars, listing what RPM that is. For cars not on the list they use a formula. My mate got off because his car wasn't on the list, so they used the formula.

Pity it was legal at the RPM they tested at, but not legal at the real peak.

XRated · 19-01-2005, 12:53 AM

Yeah I remember reading about this officer several times.

I don't want to sound like a dick, but if driving a 180SX on your Ps is illegal, then it's tough luck and you should have known about the risk - that goes for anyone and any car that isn't deemed 'legal' on your Ps.

The sound test on the other hand is open for debate. Where do they actually hold the db meter?

b2tf · 19-01-2005, 01:32 AM

Yeah even ive heard of this guy before, but he wont get me cos im 500kms away

:.

Id be kicking up a major stink for a number of reasons:

*test not conducted to guidelines (i.e. with a proper meter etc)
*i most certainly would NOT let them take photos of my car regardless of what purpose it is for without my express written consent (and id take the plates off)
*the cop being an arrogant ***** as some unfortunately are.

If he's well known, ask for his badge number and last name, write a complaint out (a decent one, dont just go off in words) and send copies to him, his boss and the commissioner's office.

Bucknaked · 19-01-2005, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by back2thefutura

Yeah even ive heard of this guy before, but he wont get me cos im 500kms away

:.

We might get Kerry to send him an invitation for Albury.

:

b2tf · 19-01-2005, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

We might get Kerry to send him an invitation for Albury.

:

Haha go ahead, my gf's sister is the head police prosecutor round here.

Can anybody say 'get out of jail free card' ?!!!

: :newangel:

pauljh74 · 19-01-2005, 01:44 AM

when I had a test done on my XE falcon a few years back, they mounted a microphone about a foot or more from the exhaust pipe offset at an angle of about 30 degrees. The testing speed is at 3/4 of the revs where max power is produced. So my XE was tested at 2775 RPM - and failed by 2 decibels in that case :(

Did a quick search for the 180SX specs and came up with this:

http://www.xspecs.net/modules.php?na...howpage&pid=16

With the 1.8 litre producing 131kW at 6400 RPM and weighing 1120 kg, it is under the limit.
The 2.0 litre producing 153kW at 6000RPM at the same or similar weight, would be over the limit of 125 kw/tonne

The exhaust test would be conducted at 4800RPM for the 1.8 and 4500RPM for the 2.0 litre. I think the max decibels it can register for a post Nov 83 car is 88 or 90 dB. Did the guy set up the microphone at an angle as I mentioned earlier? Did he rev it to the correct revs and not go over? If the owner thinks he can drive it and reckons it's not over the noise limit, get it tested at an approved exhaust place. If it's proved under the limit, make a complaint and carry around the test results in the car from that point on.

The 180SX probably wouldn't be on the Vicroads list because it is an import - the list would probably only have cars sold officially through dealerships here on it.

rodderz · 19-01-2005, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauljh74

when I had a test done on my XE falcon a few years back, they mounted a microphone about a foot or more from the exhaust pipe offset at an angle of about 30 degrees. The testing speed is at 3/4 of the revs where max power is produced. So my XE was tested at 2775 RPM - and failed by 2 decibels in that case :(

Did a quick search for the 180SX specs and came up with this:

http://www.xspecs.net/modules.php?na...howpage&pid=16

With the 1.8 litre producing 131kW at 6400 RPM and weighing 1120 kg, it is under the limit.
The 2.0 litre producing 153kW at 6000RPM at the same or similar weight, would be over the limit of 125 kw/tonne

The exhaust test would be conducted at 4800RPM for the 1.8 and 4500RPM for the 2.0 litre. I think the max decibels it can register for a post Nov 83 car is 88 or 90 dB. Did the guy set up the microphone at an angle as I mentioned earlier? Did he rev it to the correct revs and not go over? If the owner thinks he can drive it and reckons it's not over the noise limit, get it tested at an approved exhaust place. If it's proved under the limit, make a complaint and carry around the test results in the car from that point on.

The 180SX probably wouldn't be on the Vicroads list because it is an import - the list would probably only have cars sold officially through dealerships here on it.

Some great info there Paul!
I'll pass this info onto him, will be useful to him if he decides to persue anything

He cant do much till he's 21 anyhow, considering it's over the maximum power limit for the weight. I think he's going to drive another car in the meantime

kooky · 19-01-2005, 10:34 AM

He can do you for noise by just suspicion that it is over the limit so he is not in the wrong. Someone I know was pulled over in his WRX and was told he couldn't drive the car on his P's. Was not true Vicroads confimed it was legal and he didn't hav to pay the fine.

XplosiveR6 · 19-01-2005, 10:57 AM

this wouldnt be at knox ozone would it, i know a few people being pulled over by the same copper at ozone. I can understand why though with all the hoons there

EFFalcon · 19-01-2005, 11:06 AM

my guess is it would be.
Knox is his area

AdzT3-146 · 19-01-2005, 12:03 PM

Yeh i think knox is his area. i know exactly where J.B is and they always have music playing out the front. very unfair.

And yes EF Dave there are heaps of hoons and tossers in general who cruise ozone. go there on a friday night and you'll see.

XRated · 19-01-2005, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ef_classic

And yes EF Dave there are heaps of hoons and tossers in general who cruise ozone. go there on a friday night and you'll see.

LOL! Which reminds me... On Thursday night I went down there to meet some mates. I saw a R33 with it's hood up and an unmarked VX/VY behind it trying to look for anything defectable.

Two minutes later I park my car, and hear this MASSIVE burnout :sm_headba So I look up the road after getting out of my car, and there is the same unmarked cop car who obviously heard/saw this burnout as well, and cut them off. Some guy in a VX SS ute was ripping it up for ages. Another 30 minutes later and it was on the back of a tow truck!! Gold!

:

JG3282 · 19-01-2005, 12:29 PM

seems like a bit of a catch 22 then

dansedgli · 19-01-2005, 12:41 PM

The 33 wasnt white with a big veilside kit was it?

Knox is great for finding hoons, I love driving through ozone and letting the flutter noise happen and watching everyone pay out on the ricer behind me. haha

outback_ute · 19-01-2005, 12:46 PM

From a technical point of view the noise level from the JB Hifi speakers would add to that of the car to give the total sound level reading - you should be able to contest it by having a noise test done as per the guidelines in a recognised/registered workshop. Perhaps Vicroads would be able to provide a list, or they might be on the website.

XA-Coupe · 19-01-2005, 01:08 PM

He is screwed about the EPA test.. in PETTIT's opinion at the time the car was over.. he cannot contest it so he may as well get on with the testing etc etc. If the car was intercepted and tested under a landing jumbo, that's just the way it is.
Oh, I have heard of him before .... funnily enough he used to only hand out canaries ... I never saw him write a ticket in a whole month but had enough canaries to start a bird farm... seems that things have changed.

shane3 · 19-01-2005, 01:12 PM

I thought that all noise tests had to be done at Vic Roads in a controlled environment, and the hand held noise meters are worth around $20,000 each, so what is a cop running around with one of them for and trying to bust every one, sounds like he's trying to make up for some thing else :tosser1: , and as for power to weight ratio I was driveing my FPV GT on my "P's"

pauljh74 · 19-01-2005, 01:30 PM

The EPA website has a list of approved testers
http://www.epa.vic.gov.au/Noise/testers.asp

I take it the cop just defected your mate for the loud exhaust - if the car is under the limit, any fines issued for alleged non compliance would be void, right? It makes sense that the car owner gets the opportunity to remedy the alleged breach - and if they don't, then they get fined. When I got mine tested about 5 or so years ago, the test was about $60, and the place I went to in Box Hill - Daalder exhausts - didn't charge for the re-test as long as I got remedial work done by them - because it failed the initial test.

The policeman's testing environment and accuracy could have holes shot right through it if the matter was pursued further. An independent test would be the first step.

One lesson I learned when I got my mild sports exhaust on my XE was that next time I get a non standard exhaust, I will make sure they guarantee it is under the limit, so if it isn't, I can get is remedied at the vendor's expense! If an exhaust shop can't guarantee a sports system is legal, then they can't be any good and it's best to go elsewhere.

XA-Coupe · 19-01-2005, 01:25 PM

There is no requirement for the police to carry testing equipment at all, it is just 'in their opinion'.