AU Auto and Hi Stall

jonbays · 28-09-2005, 12:56 PM

In the search to get the fastest AU Auto wagon useless and I were doing some private testing today with useless new 2500rpm hi stall converter.

We can sort out who is faster with the slips at WSID in a few months but to see whether our mods are really an improvemnet or not we have regularly got together and swapped cars and lined the two wagons up for a bit of sport.

Anyway useless latest mod is a 2500rpm hi stall converter which stalls at 2500 and flashes to about 3000 compared to the stock 1800-2000rpm.

Having driven it I would say this is a great street mod as it really jumps off the line now compared to my car which ever since the cam seems to bog down then rev out nicely. Traction is just begining to be a problem and it is possible to overcook the launch now where on mine traction is never a problem unless being silly of course.

Lining our cars up side by side though there is a huge difference now with useless' wagon puling about a car and a half ahead of me in first gear till 60k when I start to hold the gap but not close it.

This is a great mod obviously getting the car into the powerband quicker and keeping it there. It's a big difference for a non power adding mod! Normal driving is fine too. No big difference drievn normally.

I would have to say if he can pull that distance in front of me then this car is getting seriously quick for an AU wagon. At WSID I have lined up manual XR6's pulling 14.7-14.9 that didn't get much further ahead of me!

SpoolMan · 28-09-2005, 01:07 PM

Is it a Dominator HI-stall, what was your cost, paid $450 for ours.

**Stav** · 28-09-2005, 01:43 PM

Well I got the converter from a Sydney based mob called tci conveters in Seven Hills here.It was custom made for me with heavy duty components. The converter was installed by J&J Race engines and transmissions in Yennora .They were fantastic.These guys build genuine turbo autos.
I was a bit shocked with the converter because I asked for a 2500 rpm stall converter.Under the brakes I get 2500-2600. Flash stall is between 3000 and 3300 stall . I am not running any cooler yet but purchased a huge one today.

I was carrying around 250 kgs in my car when me and JonBays did it.

The cost for the converter was 295
installation plus oil 250
The oil cooler is a huge unit with all fittings it cost 110

I was very surprised to see flash stall speeds of 3000 to 3300..I thought wtf.

As for limp home mode ..I have seen none of this even without a cooler but its only been in for a day.At first there was something not right and it hit 4800 stall speed but it has settled down and goes well.
the only bummer is that the battery was disconnected and the cars idle is rougher.Looking at the plugs it is running too rich at idle.If this continues I will get my mate Spiro to have a sqiz.

I still believe that JonBays has more top end than me.I drove his ca and it felt good at 80 kays and up.

SpoolMan · 28-09-2005, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

The cost for the converter was 295
installation plus oil 250
The oil cooler is a huge unit with all fittings it cost 110

Very Good value....

**Stav** · 05-10-2005, 11:34 PM

Well after all the hype I can confirm that the stall converter has made no difference to my 0-100 times.0-100 7.1 seconds...what a bummer.Looks like a 15.5 is all I should be hoping for at best..gtech doesnt lie.

Casper · 28-09-2005, 01:48 PM

Love mine, it has made a huge improvement off the line.. where the auto has the biggest disadvantage.

**Stav** · 28-09-2005, 01:52 PM

To be quite honest with you it felt quicker before and was no slouch by any means.I can honestly say that the bumometer cannot always tell a story.My best 0-100 has been 6.53 second.As soon as the cooler goes in I think I will try again.

xr8ute · 28-09-2005, 01:59 PM

Good work Stav, can't wait to hear how you go at WSID on the 5th.

Also, very interested to know how efficient this converter is compared to stock. Whens the next dyno day?

Jon, are you going to WSID on the 30th with V8O?

**Stav** · 28-09-2005, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xr8ute

Good work Stav, can't wait to hear how you go at WSID on the 5th.

Also, very interested to know how efficient this converter is compared to stock. Whens the next dyno day?

Jon, are you going to WSID on the 30th with V8O?

Thanks Dave!!As you know I am paid/booked in for the 5th November .The only thing to stop me as the one hit wonder is the end of my terminally ill family member.He was given six months a few months ago.WSID will see my AU and my special plugs run down the quarter mile.I will prove what plugs are the best and that they do make a difference.

jonbays · 28-09-2005, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xr8ute

Good work Stav, can't wait to hear how you go at WSID on the 5th.

Also, very interested to know how efficient this converter is compared to stock. Whens the next dyno day?

Jon, are you going to WSID on the 30th with V8O?

yes i will be there. the only thing I am worrying over is whether to fit my 3.45 gears first or not. i wanted to do a before and after unichip only at the strip but i have been hanging on to these gears for ages and they must go in soon. maybe with a hi stall now after driving useless car today

Casper · 28-09-2005, 02:18 PM

Jonbays, you've raced your wagon, what do you estimate Useless's wagon will run on the 1/4?

28-09-2005, 02:50 PM

should have a poll and see who can get the closest guess
if he gets his launch right i reckon be in the 14's easy .

stav what diff ratio you got in your wagon .

Casper · 28-09-2005, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbays

Lining our cars up side by side though there is a huge difference now with useless' wagon puling about a car and a half ahead of me in first gear till 60k when I start to hold the gap but not close it.

ok, lets look at this mathamatically. At 150kph (approx needed for a 14 second pass) you are traveling 4.1 m a second. So 0.7 seconds (difference between Jonbays best of 15.6 and a 14.9) is almost 29 meters. Average car is less than 4 meters long. Thats 7.25 carlengths at the line. Now, since a drag race is not linear this is not a 'perfect' model but we can use it to look at some assumptions.

For Useless's wagon to get a 14.9 then we have to assume he has around 5 or more carlengths over Jonbays wagon (assuming Jonbays will get around 15.4 due to having a better setup than last time) over the first 1/8th of a mile. Why 1/8th? Well, given the stall is a 'launch' mod that has no bearing on acceleration after around 3200rpm.. and the only time you are under 3200rpm on a drag strip in an I6 auto is in 1st gear, this is the only time the converter can make a difference.

I still stand by my estimate of 15.5 or 15.4.. which is BLOODY fast for any I6 auto, a wagon especially.

**Stav** · 28-09-2005, 04:50 PM

Diff ratio is 3.23 ratio Jake.

Casper ..I did not come this far and spend so much effort to get a 15sec pass.I am optimistically looking at a 14.5 to a pessimisitc 15.5. This is my possible best time and reasonable worst time.

I was carrying 250 kgs of tools today when the cars lined up.Empty 250 kgs from my car and I think that I am on the money.At the moment though at idle it is running pig filthy rich after the battery disconnect. The idle seems to struggle and my special spark plugs have become black with soot.I was hoping that in 1 week that it will come good but if not I will visit the legendary Spiro from Autotech engineering .

Casper · 28-09-2005, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

Diff ratio is 3.23 ratio Jake.

Casper ..I did not come this far and spend so much effort to get a 15sec pass.I am optimistically looking at a 14.5 to a pessimisitc 15.5. This is my possible best time and reasonable worst time.

Mate, I wish you luck and would love to see you get a 14.x time but I'm looking at it from Isaac Newtons point of veiw here. I just cant see it.

Lets compare cars.
Both auto, both AU's.
Mine is slightly lighter
Yours has about 10rwkw more
That offsets that. Pretty even
Both have similar Histalls
Both have shift kits
Mine has 3.45 diff and LSD
Yours has 3.23 and SS
I have Tickfords Adaptashift set to performance mode, you have stock auto shift patterns (yes, it makes a difference)
I have done about 100 passes on the drag stip, you have done none.

I'm not even confident I'll get a 14.99.. You expect a 14.5 with a 14.9 at the least.

Isaac Newton cant see this, neither can I.

Personally, I'd love to see you get a 14.5... cause then I can get one too. But I just dont see it.

**Stav** · 28-09-2005, 05:14 PM

Until the numbers are in we all **** in the wind ..so to speak.I will trust your better judgement and wisdom as a friend who has been with me through this modding journey of my life. Ok my more realistic goal is...14.9999999 I am very optimistically after a 14.5/6 and very pessimistically looking at mid 15s. Either way I am going down the 1/4 for the fun of it..its not meant to be rockets science.

BTW Issac Newton is dead

:

Casper · 28-09-2005, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

Until the numbers are in we all **** in the wind ..so to speak.I will trust your better judgement and wisdom as a friend who has been with me through this modding journey of my life. Ok my more realistic goal is...14.9999999

Thats all I'm after.. and I would be very pleased with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

BTW Issac Newton is dead

:

Yes, but so is Albert Einstein and Nuclear fission still works!

jonbays · 28-09-2005, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

ok, lets look at this mathamatically. At 150kph (approx needed for a 14 second pass) you are traveling 4.1 m a second. So 0.7 seconds (difference between Jonbays best of 15.6 and a 14.9) is almost 29 meters. Average car is less than 4 meters long. Thats 7.25 carlengths at the line. Now, since a drag race is not linear this is not a 'perfect' model but we can use it to look at some assumptions.

For Useless's wagon to get a 14.9 then we have to assume he has around 5 or more carlengths over Jonbays wagon (assuming Jonbays will get around 15.4 due to having a better setup than last time) over the first 1/8th of a mile. Why 1/8th? Well, given the stall is a 'launch' mod that has no bearing on acceleration after around 3200rpm.. and the only time you are under 3200rpm on a drag strip in an I6 auto is in 1st gear, this is the only time the converter can make a difference.

I still stand by my estimate of 15.5 or 15.4.. which is BLOODY fast for any I6 auto, a wagon especially.

Thats a good way to look at it. it's very hard to say although they are both AU auto wagons they do drive quite differently. Mine feels like it bogs down til 3000rpm then revs very eagerly to the redline. Useless feels more torquey and revs out nicely but not as enthusiasticly as mine. This gut feel stuff though isn't very reliable but I think once above 4000rpm I can certainly hold him and maybe catch up over the back end of the qtr but in our private test track today we couldn't really take it that far and I lost by a car and a half maybe two.

jonbays · 28-09-2005, 04:58 PM

"I still stand by my estimate of 15.5 or 15.4.. which is BLOODY fast for any I6 auto, a wagon especially"

last time I ran the wagon was pre unichip and it ran a best 15.6 and an average of 15.7.

I don't know what its doing post unichip yet but it will be a bit faster so I would guess a 15.2-15.4 and if mine does that useless is going faster for sure in the 60' so he could be flat 15 maybe 14's with luck.

**Stav** · 28-09-2005, 05:02 PM

Hang on JonBays.Loxxr6 got a 14.6 with 141 rwkws on that dyno.You got 144 rwkws and the soon to be advantage of the new diff gears.I agree with you on your analysis.I am definately quicker down low but your top end power by my feeling was more solid.To think this all started some 12 months ago because all I really wanted was a 0-100 car.

**Stav** · 09-10-2005, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

ok, lets look at this mathamatically. At 150kph (approx needed for a 14 second pass) you are traveling 4.1 m a second. So 0.7 seconds (difference between Jonbays best of 15.6 and a 14.9) is almost 29 meters. Average car is less than 4 meters long. Thats 7.25 carlengths at the line.

.

Casper I am confused with this formula? If I am travelling at 4.1 metres per second and I am 1/1/2 car lengths infront ..about 6 metres..right? The difference to beat is 0.7 to get a 14.9 right?(15.6 to 14.9).Then according to your calculations you then put me at least a full second ahead with a gap of approximately 6 metres.That puts me at 14.6 or better.i think somethings up with that formula??

0.7 seconds is 0.7 of 4.1..isnt it.1 second is the gap at 4.1? This equals 2.7 metres gap for a 14.9 pass not 29..? Confused me with all these maths..never was really good at it anyway.
My car wont run a 14.6 mate.??Its not the batmobile!! I am now aiming for a pedestrian 15.7 1/4

Casper · 09-10-2005, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

Casper I am confused with this formula? If I am travelling at 4.1 metres per second and I am 1/1/2 car lengths infront ..about 6 metres..right? The difference to beat is 0.7 to get a 14.9 right?(15.6 to 14.9).Then according to your calculations you then put me at least a full second ahead with a gap of approximately 6 metres.That puts me at 14.6 or better.i think somethings up with that formula??

0.7 seconds is 0.7 of 4.1..isnt it.1 second is the gap at 4.1? This equals 2.7 metres gap for a 14.9 pass not 29..? Confused me with all these maths..never was really good at it anyway.
My car wont run a 14.6 mate.??Its not the batmobile!! I am now aiming for a pedestrian 15.7 1/4

Sorry, decimal in the wrong spot... 41.6 m a second. Therefore .7 of 41.6 = 29.1

**Stav** · 10-10-2005, 04:43 PM

Well..for the street this converter has been great on takeoff but not so powerful midrange.The stall speed is 3200 rpm. Off the line I haveyet to be beaten.I believe my 60ft times would be one ofthe quickest if not the quickest out of an AU auto in this country.Unfortunately we will never know.I am taking it back out.
I do not believe that a 3200rpm stall is good for the AU six.I believe that the ideal stall speed is 2500 to 2700 rpm.Whoever gets more is destroying their usable power band. If you want to be the red light king..this is the converter for you. As mentioned before I have pass everycar off the mark by 2 to 6 car lengths..its great fun.

My 0-100 before stall was 6.9 seconds.Now it is 7.45.

The stalled AU now would beat my standard AU by 2 car lengths at the lights but be the slower to 100 kays. I am quite determined to get rid of this but enjoy the getaway.
After timing my vehicle today I am heading for a 16.8 1/4 mile due to this unit.

It flings me forward,1st gear diaapears,then goes into second at 3200 rpm and locksup ..but too late then hits third at 3200 rpm and flies to 5500 rpm. Thos converter would accelerate my car much better if it was made to stall as requested at 2500-2700 rpm.Off the mark it would not be as fast but would be better to 100 and the 1/4.So there you go..bigger is not always better.The only other thing I am thinkng of is to get some 3.7 gears to make this work better..

xr8ute · 10-10-2005, 06:07 PM

I don't really understand what you mean when you say,

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

then goes into second at 3200 rpm and locksup ..but too late then hits third at 3200 rpm and flies to 5500 rpm

??

What rpm are you shifting at? If you where shiftng at 5500rpm, I wouldn't have thought the engine would drop that low into next gear...what are the ratios in the BTR 4-speed again?

What size where the SP300's you put on?

I still think you need more rubber...and change gears manually. I need to see this car before you rip it out.

stiddy · 28-09-2005, 05:32 PM

hes the one that told me to dump it from 5,000rpm to rip a 15 flat hahaha

good luck useless.. hope you get the results you want.. remember if you cant stall it high enough autos are good for D slamming hahaha.. blew my first diff that way ;) but then it gives you an excuse to put in the better ratios gears..

hope it all works out for ya..

**Stav** · 28-09-2005, 05:34 PM

Thank you Stiddy I appreciate that mate..

:

xr8ute · 28-09-2005, 05:34 PM

When is the trans-cooler going in Stav? Do you have anywhere safe to practice before the day?

Casper is right about the stock shiftpoints. You'll want to manually shift between 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Plenty of testing will help you find the optimimum shiftpoint. Chris gave some good advice a little while ago about optimising shift points at the track by trying different rpm points from 1-2 and comparing 330 foot times.

I'll lend you my 235/45 R17 Dunlop SP3000A's for the day if it helps you get a 14.

**Stav** · 28-09-2005, 05:41 PM

Nps mate .I am going to put it in drive and fang it off the line.I want to know what it can do with normal driving.First gear doesnt show its face anymore.I wonder what happened to it.It is a strange thing.What happens is I fang it and before i know it the car has lunged forward
The cooler is siiting in the back seat at the moment.Its about 1/3 the size of the radiator.It looks like a mini barbecue.

jonbays · 28-09-2005, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

Nps mate .I am going to put it in drive and fang it off the line.I want to know what it can do with normal driving.First gear doesnt show its face anymore.I wonder what happened to it.It is a strange thing.What happens is I fang it and before i know it the car has lunged forward
The cooler is siiting in the back seat at the moment.Its about 1/3 the size of the radiator.It looks like a mini barbecue.

As strange as it sounds it does FEEL exactly like first gear is gone in a second.

You floor it it revs instantly to 3000rpm and blasts through to about 5000rpm and changes into second.

Where as in mine you floor it and it goes to 2000rpm you take off with a bit of a start and at about 3500 it kicks on to 5300rpm. Mine FEELS like its in first for longer.

Both our cars do about 80kmh in first

**Stav** · 28-09-2005, 07:39 PM

its all good fun!!