I want 200 ZF Points NOW!

macca_779 · 06-11-2005, 04:52 PM

Ok guys just wondering what everyone thinks about the new 6 speed's point system. Personally i believe it's great for a transmission to adjust to what a driver wants over time. However what happens when i'm in a spirited mood now, i don't think i should have to wait for the transmission to build some points in order for me to get the most out of it.
What i would like to see ford implement is an override allowing the driver to select what ever points he or she wants without having to wait.
This goes both ways too. What happens after i've been to a track day at calder then when i leave the transmission still wants to give me head snaping shifts, hell i dont want this, but i have to put up with it until the car gets the idea that i'm not in race mode anymore.
Just my two cents.

b2tf · 06-11-2005, 05:31 PM

think youll find its not as "extreme" as that, and the buildup of points shouldnt take that long at all.

Donut King · 06-11-2005, 05:41 PM

having just completed the trip to wagga and back in the 6 speed i feel it is tuned too far towards economy rather than performance. It was pretty unresponsive when I needed it to kick down for overtaking or whatever. Putting it in sports mode locks out 6th unless you select it manually but then it seems to be a bit undecisive in what to do. It's definately programmed for economy rather than performance, I just wonder if this "points" system will change the patterns enough to overcome that

For those interested it sat at around 8L/100km for the round trip, BF Fairmont Ghia with ~ 4000km on the clock

RED_EL_XR8 · 06-11-2005, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donut King

having just completed the trip to wagga and back in the 6 speed i feel it is tuned too far towards economy rather than performance. It was pretty unresponsive when I needed it to kick down for overtaking or whatever. Putting it in sports mode locks out 6th unless you select it manually but then it seems to be a bit undecisive in what to do. It's definately programmed for economy rather than performance, I just wonder if this "points" system will change the patterns enough to overcome that

For those interested it sat at around 8L/100km for the round trip, BF Fairmont Ghia with ~ 4000km on the clock

That's not the auto that's cylinder starvation!

_2: I'd like to test drive the ZF in some other model variants before I make up my mind.

Bossxr8 · 06-11-2005, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donut King

having just completed the trip to wagga and back in the 6 speed i feel it is tuned too far towards economy rather than performance. It was pretty unresponsive when I needed it to kick down for overtaking or whatever. Putting it in sports mode locks out 6th unless you select it manually but then it seems to be a bit undecisive in what to do. It's definately programmed for economy rather than performance, I just wonder if this "points" system will change the patterns enough to overcome that

For those interested it sat at around 8L/100km for the round trip, BF Fairmont Ghia with ~ 4000km on the clock

Ghias are setup to be less agressive than XR's, which are less agressive than the FPV's, with the GT, GTP and Typhoon being the most agressive. FPV utes are closer to the XR setting.

Donut King · 06-11-2005, 05:52 PM

yeah, we'lls ee what happens when i get an 8, though the way it went with the ghia wasn't different to the XR6 turbo... just had longer to make an impression with the ghia

RED_EL_XR8 · 06-11-2005, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donut King

yeah, we'lls ee what happens when i get an 8, though the way it went with the ghia wasn't different to the XR6 turbo... just had longer to make an impression with the ghia

Like you I'll make the impression with someone else money, might take me a bit longer to find out. The voices in my head have been told to wait and see a few more long term impressions first.

SSBUB · 06-11-2005, 06:08 PM

wwhats the point system? Im unfamiliar with that?

RED_EL_XR8 · 06-11-2005, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSBUB

wwhats the point system? Im unfamiliar with that?

Your tear of the label on your new trans and you get a number between 1 and 200 stating how well/poorly you trans was assembled.

:

Actually it the number of steps of adaptive control in the trans electronics based in driving style over time.

AnthonyQLD · 08-11-2005, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSBUB

wwhats the point system? Im unfamiliar with that?

1= driving like a granny
200= hoon

Sourbastard · 06-11-2005, 06:12 PM

Inside the transmission is 22 small pins, divided in two they are loosely grouped between two small nets. Upon gear change a small ball bearing is released, and the pins will attempt to get the ball bearing into the opposing net. Best of 3 wins and the gear is chosen.

Sourbastard · 06-11-2005, 06:27 PM

Noone believe that one? How about this then.

Inside your transmission is a Pensioner with a bag of dollar coins and a miniature pokie machine which accordingly will select random gears depending on the luck of the pensioner. When the pensioner runs out of coins and nods off next to the miniature salad bar, the transmission appears sluggish or stops all together if the pensioner drowns in their soup, requiring a new transmission.

Walkinshaw · 06-11-2005, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourbastard

Noone believe that one? How about this then.

Inside your transmission is a Pensioner with a bag of dollar coins and a miniature pokie machine which accordingly will select random gears depending on the luck of the pensioner. When the pensioner runs out of coins and nods off next to the miniature salad bar, the transmission appears sluggish or stops all together if the pensioner drowns in their soup, requiring a new transmission.

Sounds like BTR shift stratergy.

Sourbastard · 06-11-2005, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

Sounds like BTR shift stratergy.

BTR actually stands for Bald Tired Retiree.

XA-Coupe · 06-11-2005, 06:38 PM

Time for your medication again Mr Bastard

Sourbastard · 06-11-2005, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XA Coupe

Time for your medication again Mr Bastard

Ive got Ford Pills in the car.

RED_EL_XR8 · 06-11-2005, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourbastard

Ive got Ford Pills in the car.

Now what get stains out of vinyl !

Sourbastard · 06-11-2005, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

Now what get stains out of vinyl !

An absorbant pensioner.

RED_EL_XR8 · 06-11-2005, 07:02 PM

All valuable insight Bastardo better than anything your read in one of those picture book notor car magazines. The stuff they just wont tell!

fairmont1998 · 06-11-2005, 08:19 PM

BTR Inside

macca_779 · 06-11-2005, 08:19 PM

anyone actually have anything of value to add on this subject.

RED_EL_XR8 · 06-11-2005, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macca_779

anyone actually have anything of value to add on this subject.

It's early days I think you'll find your answers start to filter thru as some of the BF autos filter through and we see owner feedback from more than quick test drives.

XD 351 Ute · 06-11-2005, 11:41 PM

I heard that the new 6 speeder was actually a Borg Warner 70, two 35's co-joined in one transmission case.........

The new 6 speeder is very smooth, I took a BF XR6 turbo for a test drive last week in Brisbane. Still looking for my missing $$$$$$$'s though!!

Ed

pauljh74 · 07-11-2005, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XD 351 Ute

I heard that the new 6 speeder was actually a Borg Warner 70, two 35's co-joined in one transmission case.........

The new 6 speeder is very smooth, I took a BF XR6 turbo for a test drive last week in Brisbane. Still looking for my missing $$$$$$$'s though!!

Ed

No, they're sticking 2 Trimatics (or is that Traumatics) together and putting that in the VE next year

Donut King · 07-11-2005, 09:16 AM

why not 3 powerglides?

Big Mike · 07-11-2005, 07:37 PM

You guys are all very funny I appreciate that. Awesome sense of humour for all.

If Macca 779 wants a serious answer however, just drive any Magna made in the last 10 years. They have a fuzzy-logic automatic that learns and adapts. Working at a Mitsi dealer I hardly noticed it, but driving my ancient BMW it always makes a particular change just before I want it to. The Magnas don't, its that simple. Two or three corners and the sluggishness disappears. Two or three boots off from the lights and its revving exactly where you want it too.
Another example, you're meandering down the open freeway all relaxed in top gear. You have a sudden change in temper and decide to overtake wildy. First kickdown requires a boot full; second passing drops a cog instantly; the third time it'll drop too cogs almost as soon as you brush the pedal, rev free and high and you'll whip past anything you want.

The difference between the old folks car and the young lads' is how loose and free everything is (engine, trans, everything). Both will respond sportily, both with relax to economic mode; gramps won't beat the young lads because 30,000 kays of thrashing make a faster car hands down - regardless the computer. But you will notice shift patterns changing. More to the point, you'll get into another car without "adaptive" technology and realise what you're missing - that's when you'll notice it.
I'm not sure how Mitsi's fuzzy-logic compares to Ford's points system; I'd imagine they're very simillar and given the ZF comes from the ranks of Jag, Aston, etc., I'm sure there's nothing to worry about although having 'points' does sound like a stepped system whereas Mitsi's is not.

Surely such a 'points' system can be accessed with the mut device - go for a drive with that plugged in to see how your points rise and fall? Also, if Mitsi's anything to go on - if you have a sudden change of heart you'll use the tiptronic section anyway. But after a spirited drive I always found the trans would soon start doing exactly what I would have done with the tiptronic, so left it in "D" most of the time. Tiptronic is fun if its solid like the Mitsi's but I found the BA a bit soft and smooth for a tiptronic, however with the BA I would use it whereas the Mitsubishi would adapt by itself.

Resetting the memory or "Re-Learning" the trans in Mitsi's was as simple as N-D-N-D-N-D, acc-ign-acc-ign-acc-ign (might have been five times - I don't remember) dash cluster beeps and lights up; then drive like a mad bastard to learn it that way - however it hardly serves any purpose as it adapts quickly anyway. I'm sure the Ford will have simillar re-learning or overriding characteristics.

Now back to more jokes ya'll funny critters

ninja · 07-11-2005, 10:46 PM

i have notest the same thing with my 89 NA or maby thers something wrong with it

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Mike

You guys are all very funny I appreciate that. Awesome sense of humour for all.

If Macca 779 wants a serious answer however, just drive any Magna made in the last 10 years. They have a fuzzy-logic automatic that learns and adapts. Working at a Mitsi dealer I hardly noticed it, but driving my ancient BMW it always makes a particular change just before I want it to. The Magnas don't, its that simple. Two or three corners and the sluggishness disappears. Two or three boots off from the lights and its revving exactly where you want it too.
Another example, you're meandering down the open freeway all relaxed in top gear. You have a sudden change in temper and decide to overtake wildy. First kickdown requires a boot full; second passing drops a cog instantly; the third time it'll drop too cogs almost as soon as you brush the pedal, rev free and high and you'll whip past anything you want.

The difference between the old folks car and the young lads' is how loose and free everything is (engine, trans, everything). Both will respond sportily, both with relax to economic mode; gramps won't beat the young lads because 30,000 kays of thrashing make a faster car hands down - regardless the computer. But you will notice shift patterns changing. More to the point, you'll get into another car without "adaptive" technology and realise what you're missing - that's when you'll notice it.
I'm not sure how Mitsi's fuzzy-logic compares to Ford's points system; I'd imagine they're very simillar and given the ZF comes from the ranks of Jag, Aston, etc., I'm sure there's nothing to worry about although having 'points' does sound like a stepped system whereas Mitsi's is not.

Surely such a 'points' system can be accessed with the mut device - go for a drive with that plugged in to see how your points rise and fall? Also, if Mitsi's anything to go on - if you have a sudden change of heart you'll use the tiptronic section anyway. But after a spirited drive I always found the trans would soon start doing exactly what I would have done with the tiptronic, so left it in "D" most of the time. Tiptronic is fun if its solid like the Mitsi's but I found the BA a bit soft and smooth for a tiptronic, however with the BA I would use it whereas the Mitsubishi would adapt by itself.

Resetting the memory or "Re-Learning" the trans in Mitsi's was as simple as N-D-N-D-N-D, acc-ign-acc-ign-acc-ign (might have been five times - I don't remember) dash cluster beeps and lights up; then drive like a mad bastard to learn it that way - however it hardly serves any purpose as it adapts quickly anyway. I'm sure the Ford will have simillar re-learning or overriding characteristics.

Now back to more jokes ya'll funny critters

Danny · 07-11-2005, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninja

i have notest the same thing with my 89 NA or maby thers something wrong with it

Hahahaha, Funny Kid.

3 speed adapt-o-shift. Imagine that?

Big Mike · 09-11-2005, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninja

i have notest the same thing with my 89 NA or maby thers something wrong with it

I'm 100% certain what you're noticing is the normal way an auto will change gears according to load and throttle position. Or, perhaps if yours IS changing its shift patterns perhaps there is a loose kickdown linkage. However, the most logical solution I can come up with if indeed your NA is shifting differently after a fang would probably relate to how well thing works when its hot versus normal temp.

While I'm not intending to make any sweeping statements I'm pretty sure that even the BA's didn't have adaptive shift and given the sudden interest coinciding with the BF I'd imagine I'm guessing right. And while I've had staunch Holden boys argue black and blue their VS/VT has adaptive shift, I know for a fact they do not - and still do not. Thus Mitsubishi WAS (pre-BF) the only local manufacturer to offer any of this kind of tecnology - and has done so for nearly a decade. Same goes for tiptronic, and 5spd automatic. Oh yeah and the first to export, the first AWD, first with climate control std, first with four air-bags, first with ABS and EBD std, yada yada yada

And now I'll sit and laugh at all the anti-Magna comments from one-eyed supporters of other brands... Ha ha ha....

By the way, I used to work there, I studied everything on the market, I don't work there anymore, and oh yeah I drive the Ford proudly displayed in my avatar.

Bossxr8 · 09-11-2005, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Mike

I'm 100% certain what you're noticing is the normal way an auto will change gears according to load and throttle position. Or, perhaps if yours IS changing its shift patterns perhaps there is a loose kickdown linkage. However, the most logical solution I can come up with if indeed your NA is shifting differently after a fang would probably relate to how well thing works when its hot versus normal temp.

While I'm not intending to make any sweeping statements I'm pretty sure that even the BA's didn't have adaptive shift and given the sudden interest coinciding with the BF I'd imagine I'm guessing right. And while I've had staunch Holden boys argue black and blue their VS/VT has adaptive shift, I know for a fact they do not - and still do not. Thus Mitsubishi WAS (pre-BF) the only local manufacturer to offer any of this kind of tecnology - and has done so for nearly a decade. Same goes for tiptronic, and 5spd automatic. Oh yeah and the first to export, the first AWD, first with climate control std, first with four air-bags, first with ABS and EBD std, yada yada yada

And now I'll sit and laugh at all the anti-Magna comments from one-eyed supporters of other brands... Ha ha ha....

By the way, I used to work there, I studied everything on the market, I don't work there anymore, and oh yeah I drive the Ford proudly displayed in my avatar.

Incorrect. The first Ford to have adaptive shift was the EL GT in '97. AU XR's had it as did every BA model with the 4 speed.