Howard talks LPG

Fairlane · 09-08-2006, 04:05 PM

Now i dont like Howard, but its interesting to here some positive talk about LPG instead of excises and promises of subsidies in 2050 (or some ungodly time)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems...8/s1710809.htm

'bout time we heard something at a federal level, other than prattling on about, one day do something about fuel price levels or Ethanol.

I think Wilson Tuckey (maybe he has a gas 351?) is going over the top- i hardly ever have to que to use an LPG bowser (ive waited to be able to get to access to one plenty of times, but not to wait because the LPG was in use), most people will still stick with Petrol and LPG conversion is still going to be limited by how quick the conversion mechanics can churn them out.

Ruger · 09-08-2006, 04:17 PM

also that lpg conversions are not available for all cars.
wait till the yuppies start asking for lpg corrolas

brenx · 09-08-2006, 04:19 PM

I'm in the middle of trying to convince the Mrs to put out crapper of an EL on gas. She's telling me to wait to see whether the Fed gov't will come good with a subsidy/rebate.

Seh can't seem to undertand it'll half our fuel bill and the EL will then cost less than our 4cyl Mazda to run.

Fairlane · 09-08-2006, 04:19 PM

Quote:

yuppies start asking for lpg corrolas

Dont laugh, i actually saw a AE92? corolla on LPG. Sure i love my LPG, but that thing would have had as much power as a Victa mower

brenx · 09-08-2006, 04:21 PM

Best one I've seen is a MK 1 Escort 1.3lt on gas. It had a 80lt tank from memory. Surely a 1.3lt wouldn't cost that much to run?!?! I don't know if that's a smart owner or just a plain old tight wad.

XR Martin · 09-08-2006, 04:21 PM

My EL is as cheap to run as Prius

:

coyote · 09-08-2006, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

My EL is as cheap to run as Prius

:

In fact if you allow for maintainence your El is most likely Much cheaper than the Pirus to qwn and maintain

Outbackjack · 09-08-2006, 04:28 PM

I can see it now..... The Gov realises that more and more people are running on LPG. Their revenue starts to wittle away from petrol taxes..... I know says the treasurer, we can up the tax on LPG, they've had it good for years now.

Even if the $1000 rebate becomes a reality, the gov will re-coup the $$ from somewhere else. Never trust the government, especially when it comes to tax and petrol.

rag top · 09-08-2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

My EL is as cheap to run as Prius

:

Imagine an LPG conversion for the Prius - ultimate 'titus' ride!

**GasoLane** · 09-08-2006, 04:27 PM

Looks like Little Johnny was reading the WA newspapers on Monday

Govt doubles car gas subsidy

August 07, 2006 07:24am
Article from: AAP

THE STATE government has seized on the rising cost of petrol with a pledge to double its subsidy for vehicle conversions to gas providing a $1000 rebate.
With the cost of unleaded petrol at 130 cents a litre in Perth, Planning and Infrastructure Minister Alannah MacTiernan says a $1000 rebate could help to half fuel costs for many motorists.

``It's not going to be for everyone but our focus is on those West Australians who are really copping it hard,'' MacTiernan said.

The Government estimates the upfront cost of conversion, estimated to be around $2,500 per vehicle, could be quickly recovered, as many people were spending $100 a week on fuel.Govt doubles car gas subsidy August 07, 2006 07:24am Article from: AAP THE STATE government has seized on the rising cost of petrol with a pledge to double its subsidy for vehicle conversions to gas providing a $1000 rebate. With the cost of unleaded petrol at 130 cents a litre in Perth, Planning and Infrastructure Minister Alannah MacTiernan says a $1000 rebate could help to half fuel costs for many motorists. ``It's not going to be for everyone but our focus is on those West Australians who are really copping it hard,'' MacTiernan said. The Government estimates the upfront cost of conversion, estimated to be around $2,500 per vehicle, could be quickly recovered, as many people were spending $100 a week on fuel.

apolloxbgt · 09-08-2006, 04:32 PM

^^^^Excise on lpg is already on the cards.

**GasoLane** · 09-08-2006, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apolloxbgt

^^^^Excise on lpg is already on the cards.

Yep, this was mentioned in parliament back in 2003 I think. Starting in 2008, increasing each year untill 2012 when it will be a massive 12.5c per litre... But Gas is still gunna be way cheaper than petrol.

Dimi_Ghia · 09-08-2006, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Yep, this was mentioned in parliament back in 2003 I think. Starting in 2008, increasing each year untill 2012 when it will be a massive 12.5c per litre... But Gas is still gunna be way cheaper than petrol.

All the government is trying to do with this LPG rebate is increase the amount of cars on the road that run on LPG so that when the exise does come in they will get maximum $$$$$ when all these cars fill up with gas!!! Governments always give with one hand and take with the other.

ED Classic · 09-08-2006, 04:41 PM

Forget LPG Diesel is the way to go. Given most of our LPG is from our country I find it funny we sell it cheaper to overseas than we can buy it for. It nearly always sits arounf half {or just under} what petrol actually is. You can bet anything if petrol goes to $2 a litre Gas would go to $1 meaning our government makes the extra profit rather than another country. So yes I would rather our country make the $ but not when they price it inline with what petrol is and not how cheap they could actually sell it for. Having owned duel fuel cars the main problem I found is that Gas requires tuning a bit more often if not maintenence. Also if 60 litres of petrol gets you 600km gas gets you 450-480km all things equal. Diesel on the other hand for no more noticeable cost than petrol gets you about 800km for 60 litres. Theres more than meets the eye. A diesel wont be much dearer than a gas car and the engine will last longer than any petrol or gas engine.

blueoval · 09-08-2006, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ED Classic

Forget LPG Diesel is the way to go. Given most of our LPG is from our country I find it funny we sell it cheaper to overseas than we can buy it for. It nearly always sits arounf half {or just under} what petrol actually is. You can bet anything if petrol goes to $2 a litre Gas would go to $1 meaning our government makes the extra profit rather than another country. So yes I would rather our country make the $ but not when they price it inline with what petrol is and not how cheap they could actually sell it for. Having owned duel fuel cars the main problem I found is that Gas requires tuning a bit more often if not maintenence. Also if 60 litres of petrol gets you 600km gas gets you 450-480km all things equal. Diesel on the other hand for no more noticeable cost than petrol gets you about 800km for 60 litres. Theres more than meets the eye. A diesel wont be much dearer than a gas car and the engine will last longer than any petrol or gas engine.

very true. But there isnt enough diesel powered family cars on the market at the moment. Unless you want a 4x4 or VW Golf etc.

**GasoLane** · 09-08-2006, 04:59 PM

Yeah, I cant imagine Ford bringing out a FPV GT-P Diesel. It just doesn't sound right

schmidty · 09-08-2006, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ED Classic

Forget LPG Diesel is the way to go. Given most of our LPG is from our country I find it funny we sell it cheaper to overseas than we can buy it for. It nearly always sits arounf half {or just under} what petrol actually is. You can bet anything if petrol goes to $2 a litre Gas would go to $1 meaning our government makes the extra profit rather than another country. So yes I would rather our country make the $ but not when they price it inline with what petrol is and not how cheap they could actually sell it for. Having owned duel fuel cars the main problem I found is that Gas requires tuning a bit more often if not maintenence. Also if 60 litres of petrol gets you 600km gas gets you 450-480km all things equal. Diesel on the other hand for no more noticeable cost than petrol gets you about 800km for 60 litres. Theres more than meets the eye. A diesel wont be much dearer than a gas car and the engine will last longer than any petrol or gas engine.

Dude have you ever owned a diesel? It's a false economy. I'm going to use a 100 series cruiser as en example, but the same applies to passenger sedans etc.

To purchase a TD cruiser, you're up for $13,000 extra over the cost of the same model and spec with a petrol engine. It doesnt matter what make / mode you buy, the diesel always comes at a hefty premium.

So after you've forked out all of the cash to buy the cost saving diesel, you'll find out that the servicing need to be carried out twice as often in most cases. Generally diesels need the oil and filter done every 5000ks, and a regular service every 10,000ks.

Most efficient and drivable diesels are turbo charged. This will almost double your insurance costs in most cases, as now the vehicle is classed as being high performance. My in laws pay $1600 per year for full comp on a TD 100 series with both drivers over 50, rating 1, and living in a rural area. On their policy its listed as a high performance turbo charged vehicle.

The 80 series they had prior to the 100 series did the big end after 240,000ks and the cost of rebuilding the engine and injector pump was just under $12,000!!!!!!!!!

Modern diesels will not forgive poor maintenance, and God forbid you own 1 when something breaks! Get an injector die on your TD5 Discovery, you'll need to replace all 5, and a cost of just under $5K!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sure diesels are economical each week at the pump, but there is a lot more cost associated with doesels than just filling them up. If all you do is drive it, great, but add up the cost of ownership and in most cases they dont make a great deal of economic sense, well not to the point that they are streets ahead of a petrol engine.

Of course there are always exceptions.

ED Classic · 09-08-2006, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmidty

Dude have you ever owned a diesel? It's a false economy. I'm going to use a 100 series cruiser as en example, but the same applies to passenger sedans etc.

To purchase a TD cruiser, you're up for $13,000 extra over the cost of the same model and spec with a petrol engine. It doesnt matter what make / mode you buy, the diesel always comes at a hefty premium.

So after you've forked out all of the cash to buy the cost saving diesel, you'll find out that the servicing need to be carried out twice as often in most cases. Generally diesels need the oil and filter done every 5000ks, and a regular service every 10,000ks.

Most efficient and drivable diesels are turbo charged. This will almost double your insurance costs in most cases, as now the vehicle is classed as being high performance. My in laws pay $1600 per year for full comp on a TD 100 series with both drivers over 50, rating 1, and living in a rural area. On their policy its listed as a high performance turbo charged vehicle.

The 80 series they had prior to the 100 series did the big end after 240,000ks and the cost of rebuilding the engine and injector pump was just under $12,000!!!!!!!!!

Modern diesels will not forgive poor maintenance, and God forbid you own 1 when something breaks! Get an injector die on your TD5 Discovery, you'll need to replace all 5, and a cost of just under $5K!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sure diesels are economical each week at the pump, but there is a lot more cost associated with doesels than just filling them up. If all you do is drive it, great, but add up the cost of ownership and in most cases they dont make a great deal of economic sense, well not to the point that they are streets ahead of a petrol engine.

Of course there are always exceptions.

Or you can look at the Golf which is only 3 grand dearer than a petrol both been 2.0 litres, the diesel a Turbo and for that 3 grand you get another 250-300km per 55 litre tank about 700km in the petrol to 900-1000 in the diesel and the diesels faster, has much more useable power and servicing is the same. Get the petrol coverted to gas and suddenly that 3 grand becomes nillified and I dont like your chances of having the same power of the 2.0 petrol which is already slower than the diesel. Its not hard to see why they are becoming so popular and why Holden is only 12 months away from a diesel Commode. I seriously hope Ford doesnt get left too far behind and gets one into the Territory soonish.

If you get the 1.9 Diesel Golf its cheaper than the 2.0 petrol not much slower and the economy is endless.

AnthonyQLD · 09-08-2006, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmidty

To purchase a TD cruiser, you're up for $13,000 extra over the cost of the same model and spec with a petrol engine. It doesnt matter what make / mode you buy, the diesel always comes at a hefty premium.

Most efficient and drivable diesels are turbo charged. This will almost double your insurance costs in most cases, as now the vehicle is classed as being high performance. My in laws pay $1600 per year for full comp on a TD 100 series with both drivers over 50, rating 1, and living in a rural area. On their policy its listed as a high performance turbo charged vehicle.

Or you could just buy a patrol and it wouldnt cost as much in the first place as there base model is a TD engine.

And your inlaws are getting ripped off with there insurance, if it is classed as a high performace vehicle I would be getting that changed or going with another company. I own a 4.2 TD patrol and its not classed as a high performace vehicle.

schmidty · 09-08-2006, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonyQLD

Or you could just buy a patrol and it wouldnt cost as much in the first place as there base model is a TD engine.

And your inlaws are getting ripped off with there insurance, if it is classed as a high performace vehicle I would be getting that changed or going with another company. I own a 4.2 TD patrol and its not classed as a high performace vehicle.

Dude if a patrol met their needs, and they wanted 1, they would have purchased 1.

I will guarantee you would be paying more for insurance than if you were driving the 4.8 Petrol. I have mates with GU Patrols, 4.2TD and 3.0L TD they all commented on the insurance.

By the ay, the cruiser is insured through AAMI for $1600 p.a. I didnt think anyone insured cheaper than them.

NSW Class anything with a turbo as being high performance. You can drive a NA 6 that does 0 - 100 in sub 6's on their P's, but they cant drive a diahatsu copen with a turbocharged 4, 50kw & 100nm.

AnthonyQLD · 10-08-2006, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmidty

I will guarantee you would be paying more for insurance than if you were driving the 4.8 Petrol. I have mates with GU Patrols, 4.2TD and 3.0L TD they all commented on the insurance.

By the ay, the cruiser is insured through AAMI for $1600 p.a. I didnt think anyone insured cheaper than them.

But unless it is different in QLD, I dont see how they pay that much for the cruiser. Im under 25 and dont pay over 1000 for my TD. I was not having a go at you or your inlaws, I was just saying I would look into it becasue it does sound a bit expensive.

I just got 2 quotes from RACQ.
First one is for a 2006 Patrol 4.2TD RRP:$65,240 Yearly Premium: $568.70.
Second one is for a 2006 Patrol 4.8L Petrol RRP:$61,440 Yearly Premium: $643.35

This is bassed on a 45 year old with a clean driving record

goXF · 09-08-2006, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ED Classic

Forget LPG Diesel is the way to go. Given most of our LPG is from our country I find it funny we sell it cheaper to overseas than we can buy it for. It nearly always sits arounf half {or just under} what petrol actually is. You can bet anything if petrol goes to $2 a litre Gas would go to $1 meaning our government makes the extra profit rather than another country. So yes I would rather our country make the $ but not when they price it inline with what petrol is and not how cheap they could actually sell it for. .

Don't know what the gas and petrol prices are where you live but here in Bendigo gas is currently about 1/3 of the price of ULP. Quite a big difference.....and it hasn't really increased at all in the last 6 months or so - not like ULP.

In a way, the higher ULP goes the quicker we recoup conversion costs....

ED Classic · 09-08-2006, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goXF

In a way, the higher ULP goes the quicker we recoup conversion costs....

Ha Ha thats a good justification or should I say attitude

blueoval · 09-08-2006, 04:43 PM

I do like the thought of getting a rebate for an LPG conversion, but as its already mentioned, only a matter of time before governments decide to hike the excise on that too.

Still, my cousins twin GRA 351 cleveland powered XE with twin LPG tanks for sale is looking better all the time.

Bobman · 09-08-2006, 05:18 PM

LPG all the way, am considering even converting the BA & with a custom tune to try & keep the backfiring away.

Hope a rebate does soon happen, across the country.

They just had the article on the news, the demand is rising, one federal MP saying it's something they can do now.

Media says up to 40% cars could convert, I've even seen LPG on Hyundai's and Magna's lol.

Petrol, according to the media is to rise to $1.80 - which I actually believe too, but probably not for a few months.

GOLDIE · 09-08-2006, 05:24 PM

Ba will not back fire on injected lpg and if the plugs are gapped right they should not back fire with the old school system either.

Ian

GOLDIE · 09-08-2006, 05:24 PM

Forgot to add had a phone call today for a festiva.

Ian

Supa R00 · 09-08-2006, 05:27 PM

That'd be bloody right... a subsidy comes in after i got mine a year ago... meh im not too worried ive done 30,000kays and at under 30 bucks for 500+kms its awesome! im laughing alllll the way to the bowser! Oh but please dont tell anyone how good it really is... then they'll all convert too!!! Grrr!

schmidty · 09-08-2006, 05:34 PM

Also our diesel is absolute rubbish compared to euro diesel. Thats why it was so long before the likes of BMW released their diesel variants over here, and why we still dont have the entire line up. Mercedes had quite a lot of trouble with their common rail diesels when they started selling them here. It was pretty much always due to crap diesel clogging up systems.

bArNsY · 09-08-2006, 05:37 PM

IMO it's just scare tatics, where is the struggling working class individual gonna find the money in the first place to fork out for the conversion.
Any such rebate will have dramatic effects on the supply and demand of money in the way the RBA adjusting it monetary policy adjusting interest rate further.
Wait until Peter Costello announces this hear-say poppycock rebate!