Extractors & Dev4 Cam to go in!

[OZFORDAU]

Ok im looking at putting extractors on and a Dev4 cam both are JMM! Will i need a tune or a chip or something like that if i stick the cam in!

Also i have an issue as to where im going to re-locate the gas converter (And no im not removing the gas converter lol) so will i be able to sit the converter sideways???

I don't know where to put it! As the extraors are most likely going to touch/be very close to the converter!

Let me know your thoughts people!

Cheers

Simon : :eclipsee_

[HLC]

Mechan1k/Simon was going to put Extractors on his ute, and move the gas converter. i believe he started to do it, so have a chat to him about it.

[Stav]

I think you may need a chip depending on how your car reacts.I would say that the dev 4 cam will be much happier with a tune for sure.Do yourself a favour and get the car dynoed before you do it .Then when it is done dyno it again same dyno.. If done properly the dev 4 cam will go well.The best test will be the track.Dynos tend to lie but if you get a good independant shop it will reflect increases somewhat.Good luck with it.

[FRDGAL]

Originally Posted by useless

I think you may need a chip depending on how your car reacts.I would say that the dev 4 cam will be much happier with a tune for sure.Do yourself a favour and get the car dynoed before you do it .Then when it is done dyno it again same dyno.. If done properly the dev 4 cam will go well.The best test will be the track.Dynos tend to lie but if you get a good independant shop it will reflect increases somewhat.Good luck with it.

Stav, he's taking my old setup. He has the exhaust. He's now taking the streetfighter prototype's and the cam. I've told him that I had issues with vacuum so he is aware of that. His car may react differently though. My opinion (which I gave him) was that he should have it fitted and tuned up. I suggested the Unichip because I know Simon's budget.

You're right though, in regards to dyno's. The best test will be the track but it will also depend on the right tuner won't it. Get that cam tuned in right and it will hammer. As I said, he may have the vacuum issue or he may not. And I'm pretty sure Simon is planning on getting a hi-stall fitted aswell some time in the future so low down bog won't be an issue for him.

[Stav]

Hmm he should be fine .Despite unichips claims that idle cannot be adjusted I do know that they can adjust the stepper motor if the tuner really wants to. I hope he finds a good tuner to do the job as it makes a world of difference to making it all work well. Dynos are ok but not that much.I am going to get on a dyno soon in shootout 8 mode to see how it affects the figures.I think that just because its a six that it should all be in the same mode for fair comparison.I mean what the heck is the difference?Fudges v8 figures?Distorted six figures?

[Baboon_AU]

dpends what headers you get.. i didn't have to touch mine. i got pacemaker 4499's./. but of course u want JMM

[jonbays]

Type c Unichip can only adjust air fuel ratio and ign advance thats it nothing else. i have connected it up i know what its wired to. the only idle adjustment is really air fuel ratio. It works fine in my car with the dev3HL and Dev5 cams and was OK even with the Crow 2232549 cam at idle with just the basic A/F ratio adjustment.

The Dev4 will idle like a baby with the Unichip easy as pie

[OZFORDAU]

Well i spoke to G&D today and JMM and im preety sure they said not to get an Unichip as it wont effect the areas that we want to cocerntrate on with the Cam!

Matt @ G&D said that we'll have to get a flash tune done and that'll cost roughly about $1,400-

JMM said that the'll install it with the parts and a dyno for roughly $700-

Im wondering now if i can just chuck the cam in and leave it and then put the extractors on!

Thats all i want to dooooo!

Helpppppppppp!

Cheers

Simon

[EFFalcon]

just install the stuff, see how it goes then decide.
always take what a shop tells you as advice and ONLY advice.
a unichip/edit will help but it by no means NEEDED.

[Stav]

If you just chuck the cam in the car will run well as long as you do not reset the computer by disconnecting the battery.I think the edit is alot better for the dev 4 .I like G&D and think Mocky is great.Seeing that they made the cam I think they would have the most probability to get it spot on.

[superroo]

As far a i know with tunning, of course if you just put it all in it will work fine. However, if you want to get the best from the cam and the headers then a tune will be needed. Personally, i wouldn't bother with a unichip, just go get it tuned/flashed. Sure it costs more, but they'll be able to tune the car to the cam more.

Cheers
PS. is this another dream like the TS50 kit simon, or will it go ahead

[OZFORDAU]

Originally Posted by superroo

As far a i know with tunning, of course if you just put it all in it will work fine. However, if you want to get the best from the cam and the headers then a tune will be needed. Personally, i wouldn't bother with a unichip, just go get it tuned/flashed. Sure it costs more, but they'll be able to tune the car to the cam more.

Cheers
PS. is this another dream like the TS50 kit simon, or will it go ahead

Yeah ok well i'll chuck them in for the time been if the cam fits straight in that is!

And later on down the track i'll get in flashed tuned!

And yes it will be going ahead! The TS50 kit was didn't go ahead cause...

A) Costed too much
B) The car looks good as it sits now!

Cheers

Simon :sm_headba

[TheSneakiness]

If the JMM headers are anything like the Pacemaker 4480 headers, you will need to move the converter. I had the converter moved in mine forward so it lines up with the number 1 & 2 pipes. Messy as, but it has enough clearance.

[Ruger]

About the vacuum issue. if you have problems with vacum, Crane cams has a vacuum canistor that you can use designed especially for this. My brother has one working with a clevo which has a very large bump stick in it and it pulls up well and vacuum is good for what it is.

[jonbays]

You won't have vacum problems because of a dev4 cam. I have run dev3hl and dev5 and seen useless dev4 and none of these cams is that much of a problem at idle that the vacum is below 16" odd. with a unichip or flash tune all will be 100% fine.

[superroo]

I not sure, but jim might recomend that for a dev 4 that the valve srings be replaced, possible even new valves.
I got an article on it at home that details what he recommends to change for each dev kit. I'll have a look when i get home next and let you know.

By the way, i reckomend that you tune it when you fit it all, minimses the chance of damage, and the car will be better for it.

cheers

[jonbays]

Originally Posted by superroo

I not sure, but jim might recomend that for a dev 4 that the valve srings be replaced, possible even new valves.
I got an article on it at home that details what he recommends to change for each dev kit. I'll have a look when i get home next and let you know.

By the way, i reckomend that you tune it when you fit it all, minimses the chance of damage, and the car will be better for it.

cheers

The Dev4 is not BIG lift. You can and useless does run stock springs and get away with it. Coil bind isn;t the problem valve float is and then only a maybe over 5000rpm which you will want to do with a dev4. JMM or crow single will sell springs to suit.

the valves themselves are fine no need to touch them just make sure the valve collets and retainers all suit the valve stem and springs you are using.

[OZFORDAU]

Originally Posted by jonbays

The Dev4 is not BIG lift. You can and useless does run stock springs and get away with it. Coil bind isn;t the problem valve float is and then only a maybe over 5000rpm which you will want to do with a dev4. JMM or crow single will sell springs to suit.

the valves themselves are fine no need to touch them just make sure the valve collets and retainers all suit the valve stem and springs you are using.

So am i still just chucking them straight in and seeing hows it goes?

Do i need new valve springs etc?

JMM said i do as i called them up! But if i don't need to then i don't wont to be spending extra money!

Cheers

Simon :

[jonbays]

Originally Posted by OZFORDAU

So am i still just chucking them straight in and seeing hows it goes?

Do i need new valve springs etc?

JMM said i do as i called them up! But if i don't need to then i don't wont to be spending extra money!

Cheers

Simon :

Brenden and I diagree on a few things and he is usually proved right but I say yes you can GET AWAY with stock AU valve springs with a Dev4 cam.

If its a manual and you like hanging off the rev limiter well thsi would 't be a good choice. It is cutting corners and this can be expensive if something goes wrong.

[Stav]

Hang on guys let me clear this up ok? I have the dev 4 cam only with standard valve springs.The car goes well.The pb is testament to this.
However when it sees 6000 rpm cutoff it idles a little lumpier for a little while.That is a big reason why I am looking for valve springs now.I think the standard springs are too weak for 6000 rpm revs and I my be getting slight valve float and lifter pump up.If the springs were a bit tighter the valvetrain would follow the cam better and rev out better.Also I do believe that more power would be coming out the back.
Be aware that the AU valve springs are alot stronger than the e series and are ok to use if you dont want to rev it all the time.

[FRDGAL]

Originally Posted by jonbays

Brenden and I diagree on a few things and he is usually proved right but I say yes you can GET AWAY with stock AU valve springs with a Dev4 cam.

You don't need them. If you did, JMM would promote the Dev4 as needing them just as they do with the 3HL. Yeah it's a good idea to change them, but not absolutely necessary with that cam.

Originally Posted by useless

I am trying to learn driving it manually

I drive mine manually all the time. It's become 2nd nature

[Damo]

hmm that is interesting, i'm using standard valve springs with a DEV 4 in my EF XR6. When I get to the end of the 1/4 the last time I raced the car would be ticking it's nuts off and oil pressure would drop. It would all be back to normal by the time I get to the end of the return lane.

[Stav]

Originally Posted by Damo

hmm that is interesting, i'm using standard valve springs with a DEV 4 in my EF XR6. When I get to the end of the 1/4 the last time I raced the car would be ticking it's nuts off and oil pressure would drop. It would all be back to normal by the time I get to the end of the return lane.

Exactly like mine when I fang it.I mean really fang it.I think it is the reason why my shimms got chewed out in the begining,but my fettish is for revving its guts out again as it goes like a bullet.I am trying to learn driving it manually.For performance use it needs better springs..maybe 100 lbs on the the seat and god knows what opened spring pressures.

[xr8ute]

Stav, I reckon you would want more than 100lb's on the seat. I think the XR6 had 90lb on the seat?

Crow recommends the 7333 on their larger hydraulic lifter AU I6 cams.

125lb on the seat (1.82" installed height), and a spring rate of 330lb/in i.e. 290lbs open at 0.500" lift.

I am using these valve springs on my ute with the Crane 2030. About 132lbs at 1.80" installed height, and about 310lbs open (0.544" lift).

I am not sure how much valvetrain weight compares in the I6 OHC to the Windsor V8, would almost certainly be less, but I dont know by how much...?

Might be worth looking at some of the comp cams "beehive" springs. Would be killer with a set of titanium retainers....would certainly help the I6 rpm a bit higher.

[Stav]

Dave the six installed height is 1.625. The crow spring part number 7333-12 has 130 lbs on the seat and 300 at 500 lift This should do the trick .

[OZFORDAU]

Originally Posted by xr8ute

Stav, I reckon you would want more than 100lb's on the seat. I think the XR6 had 90lb on the seat?

Crow recommends the 7333 on their larger hydraulic lifter AU I6 cams.

125lb on the seat (1.82" installed height), and a spring rate of 330lb/in i.e. 290lbs open at 0.500" lift.

I am using these valve springs on my ute with the Crane 2030. About 132lbs at 1.80" installed height, and about 310lbs open (0.544" lift).

I am not sure how much valvetrain weight compares in the I6 OHC to the Windsor V8, would almost certainly be less, but I dont know by how much...?

Might be worth looking at some of the comp cams "beehive" springs. Would be killer with a set of titanium retainers....would certainly help the I6 rpm a bit higher.

Bahaha could you guys get anymore confusing then you are now lol!

Nahh its cool, everyone has been very helpfull!

Ok so this is the plan, im going to be buying the Dev4 Cam and just sticking it straight it...No tuning, no valve springs just drop it straight in!

Is this our final decision, yes or no?

And with the extractors i'll just re-locate the gas converter and we'll be all merry!

Cheers

Simon out:

[FRDGAL]

Originally Posted by OZFORDAU

Ok so this is the plan, im going to be buying the Dev4 Cam and just sticking it straight it...No tuning, no valve springs just drop it straight in!

I still think it should be fitted by someone other than yourself because if something goes wrong, I know you, you'll blame me and the cam for your own mistake. So I'll make it clear and for all to read - if you stuff this up and don't do it properly, it's your own fault. On the other hand, if you do it right then, yer, whatever LOL.

[OZFORDAU]

Originally Posted by FRDGAL_AU6

I still think it should be fitted by someone other than yourself because if something goes wrong, I know you, you'll blame me and the cam for your own mistake. So I'll make it clear and for all to read - if you stuff this up and don't do it properly, it's your own fault. On the other hand, if you do it right then, yer, whatever LOL.

You didn't need to post that...........

I wouldn't blame you or the cam...I'd blame my self!

[GK]

Originally Posted by OZFORDAU

You didn't need to post that...........

I wouldn't blame you or the cam...I'd blame my self!

I guess you always take a risk selling something to a friend. If it goes sour for some reason, the bad taste could last a while.

She's just wanting to be straight with you! Fair enough.

Get it fitted Simon.

GK

[Pinkbits]

................