Fog / Driving Lights and the Cops

[BA Bakes]

i got booked the other day by the NSW cops for having the fog / driving lights on in my BA.

Can anyone tell me what the rules are regarding using these lights? Are they just for special condition like rain or fog in NSW.

I have a few mates the have joined the cops. i get conflicting answers for them about it. Some say if they are factory fitted they can only be on when driving thru fog, but if aftermarket you can have them on at any time.

[LTDHO]

Each state has different laws.

In Vic they are illegal as they 'dazzle' oncoming drivers. But even Vic cops use them!

i guess it's one of those laws that are used when they want to get you on something and can't find anything else!

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

i guess it's one of those laws that are used when they want to get you on something and can't find anything else!

yeah i agree.

if they r OE they should b allowed to b used whenever and if u get fined should take it up with the manufacturer although u prolly wouldnt get anywhere.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Each state has different laws.

In Vic they are illegal as they 'dazzle' oncoming drivers. But even Vic cops use them!

i guess it's one of those laws that are used when they want to get you on something and can't find anything else!

Driving lights are not illegal in Vic, just a hell of a lot of rules applying to how many you can have and where you can mount them etc. Fog lights, you can only have one pair and they can only be used in fog. They can be yellow etc where driving lights must be clear. Unless yellow etc if asked just call them driving lights and usually no probs. The type that are a fixed beam, almost like high beams, that get used by 4wds, would be treated the same as high beams, you left them up and dazzled oncoming traffic, you would get pin failing to dip headlights. Most driving lights though mounted on modern vehicles are not these type.

Clear as mud.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Redrum

Driving lights are not illegal in Vic, just a hell of a lot of rules applying to how many you can have and where you can mount them etc. Fog lights, you can only have one pair and they can only be used in fog. They can be yellow etc where driving lights must be clear. Unless yellow etc if asked just call them driving lights and usually no probs. The type that are a fixed beam, almost like high beams, that get used by 4wds, would be treated the same as high beams, you left them up and dazzled oncoming traffic, you would get pin failing to dip headlights. Most driving lights though mounted on modern vehicles are not these type.

Clear as mud.

There are very different laws applying to driving lights compared to fog lights. The ones fitted to BA's are fog lights because they are aimed lower than low beam and have a spread beam. Driving lights are aimed hirher and have a beam concentrated for extra distance, as you say like high beam. Therefore the lasw that apply to driving lights do not apply to fog lights. Fog lights may also be either clear or coloured and must be able to be operated independantly of main headlights, driving lights must be used in conjunction with high beam only and must dip with the high beam. Call the lights on the BA what you wish, they are fog lights (unless altered from factory spec) and therefore come under the fog light laws. If in your state it is illegal to use fog lights in clear conditions, then that is the law. In most states it is not illegal and in my opinion nor should it be, if they are used in their standard condition they are no more dazzling than low beam. Poorly fitted/ adjusted lighting is not a cause to ban a lighting system, just fine those that have them poorly set up. If poor adjustment is reason for baning them, then low beams, high beams and spot lights need to be banned too as I have seen many examples of poor use/ adjustment on these systems too.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by geckoxr8

There are very different laws applying to driving lights compared to fog lights. The ones fitted to BA's are fog lights because they are aimed lower than low beam and have a spread beam. Driving lights are aimed hirher and have a beam concentrated for extra distance, as you say like high beam. Therefore the lasw that apply to driving lights do not apply to fog lights. Fog lights may also be either clear or coloured and must be able to be operated independantly of main headlights, driving lights must be used in conjunction with high beam only and must dip with the high beam. Call the lights on the BA what you wish, they are fog lights (unless altered from factory spec) and therefore come under the fog light laws. If in your state it is illegal to use fog lights in clear conditions, then that is the law. In most states it is not illegal and in my opinion nor should it be, if they are used in their standard condition they are no more dazzling than low beam. Poorly fitted/ adjusted lighting is not a cause to ban a lighting system, just fine those that have them poorly set up. If poor adjustment is reason for baning them, then low beams, high beams and spot lights need to be banned too as I have seen many examples of poor use/ adjustment on these systems too.

Driving lights vary, not all present a pin point beam, driving lights in fact also present spread beams and low beams.

I know when Ford brought out the BA, the Fairmont Ghia's lights did not comply with either Australian Design Rules or Road Rules Victoria, not sure which.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Redrum

Driving lights vary, not all present a pin point beam, driving lights in fact also present spread beams and low beams.

I know when Ford brought out the BA, the Fairmont Ghia's lights did not comply with either Australian Design Rules or Road Rules Victoria, not sure which.

That may be true but it is the operation of the lights that is different, fog lights can be operated independantly of the low beam, driving lights can not. Therfore they are covered by different laws as they are different lighting systems.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Redrum

Driving lights vary, not all present a pin point beam, driving lights in fact also present spread beams and low beams.

I know when Ford brought out the BA, the Fairmont Ghia's lights did not comply with either Australian Design Rules or Road Rules Victoria, not sure which.

Driving lights vary? Sure, insofar as 'performance'. Again; DRIVING LIGHTS by definition and terminology are lamps intended for use ONLY with a vehicles high-beam. Colour of permitted light - 'white optic'. Aftermarket type must have a switch of their own that will only enable operation when the cars headlight switch is on high-beam.

Front fog lights are wired to enable operation on park, low and high-beam, it is most beneficial to use them on park alone when visibility is seriously reduced. Colour of permitted light - 'White optic' or 'selective yellow'.

The BA Fairmont Ghia lamps were called by Fords advertising blurb 'decorative lights'. These were equipped with Hella's then marketed 'Cool Blue' 5-watt wedge bulbs. Because the car had in effect FOUR park (position) lights, the lamps were found to be non-complying with ADR.

We could find no ADR for 'decorative lamps' and importantly, the issue of 'grouping' of lamps and inherent meaning that no additional lights could be fitted put these in contravention. That is to say you could not then add a set of front fog lights should you have wished and or additional driving lamps.

The lamps were surely created by some alcohol fuelled marketing soul. FoMoCo would have been better dedicating the mount position to a set of front fog lights. (Note the Mazda's of the time, an alternative).

Front fog lights, nor the BA Fairmont Ghia's nutty decorative lamps are DRL's, daytime running lamps, now pushed by do-gooder safety nazis. Yet, another source of glare we do not need. The optional use of your low beam etc under appropriate conditions shall suffice.

[InitialD]

Yes Ive tried to find out many times about what you can have here in VIC.

I agree with LTDHO, its one of those things they use to hassle you when they cant think/Find anything else.

[b2tf]

Haha, that does not surprise me one bit. The HWP in Wagga really hate these things, there is one guy in particular, big fat bugger who takes great pride in lining his leather hat up in the reflection of his cars door before he comes to speak to you. By the time he's at your window you cant help but be in tears of laughter from it.

The answer i have been given from the Police prosecutor here (so i tend to believe her a bit more than the regular HWP guys) is that they're illegal to use except in conditions of rain and fog. I'll admit i do use them on my Focus whenever i drive at night, but only when im out of town.

Basically you run the risk of copping an $88 (i think?) fine for them if you use them in town other than when its raining or foggy, cos thats pretty much what they're for. I see numerous cars downtown with them on when they're doing the main of a Friday night and they dont seem to get caught, although after being done for them about 3 times myself, im not game to run the risk anymore.

[tickford2001]

NSW cops seem to be a lot harder on people for using them than the vic cops though...

but im sure bracksie will cotton onto that being a good source of funding and they will be booking folk everywhere you look :

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by tickford2001

NSW cops seem to be a lot harder on people for using them than the vic cops though...

but im sure bracksie will cotton onto that being a good source of funding and they will be booking folk everywhere you look :

Definately, im surprised they dont. Its $about 88 a pop here, not fun. The only upside is that you dont lose any points.

[BA Bakes]

At the time i got done, i was driving round with my younger bro and got the impression he seem to young guys in a nice car and thought "let find something to book this guy with". I don't find that the BA fog light aren't really a problem to on coming traffic unlike some of the 4WD floating around that near blind you.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by BA Bakes

At the time i got done, i was driving round with my younger bro and got the impression he seem to young guys in a nice car and thought "let find something to book this guy with". I don't find that the BA fog light aren't really a problem to on coming traffic unlike some of the 4WD floating around that near blind you.

Yeah thats true, theyre nowhere near as bad as SS/Calais lights (those bastards change colour!), and it probably was a case of what you said. Unfortunately thats how some of them are.

Stevo, usually the way aftermarket ones are wired up is that they come on with the high beams. In my old EF i had mine on a seperate switch so i could turn em on whenever i wanted, and i couldnt pass RWC with them like that so i just hid the switch in the dash lol.

[bindi]

Yeah well this is why my foggies and spotties have been in storage for nearly 10 years as I have never gotten a clear answer.

Can I attach the spotties to the high beam switch, so they only come on then? We get awful fog up here to the extent (like the other night) where you can't see past your friggin bonnet. Am I allowed to use my foggies then?

I can't get a straight answer. These are aftermarket ones, just fyi.

Any cops on the forums who are willing to stand up and answer these questions???

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by bindi

Yeah well this is why my foggies and spotties have been in storage for nearly 10 years as I have never gotten a clear answer.

Can I attach the spotties to the high beam switch, so they only come on then? We get awful fog up here to the extent (like the other night) where you can't see past your friggin bonnet. Am I allowed to use my foggies then?

I can't get a straight answer. These are aftermarket ones, just fyi.

Any cops on the forums who are willing to stand up and answer these questions???

Bindi,

dont take my word as being 100% correct, but from my understanding there is no problem with that setup (spotties on with your highbeams). As long as you can dim them with the highbeams for oncoming traffic (which is what happens if you wire them in right), you've got no worries.

And with the foggies - yes that is right, foggies are for fog so by all means use them then.

[Stevo]

Mine come on with my headlights :

[Danny]

Hmmm. Thanks for this thread.
Since i got the Tec' I pretty much been usin the driving lights all the time because i love the look of them. I know mum and dad (who both have XR's) use them at night and such. So far no bookings but i spose its a pretty high risk if we're drivin with them all the time and theyre illegal!

good to hear the straight answer ;)

-Dan

[Des]

All the answers I get when I've asked are they can only be used in "cases of low visibility, such as fog or rain". My argument is that all low light situations are "cases of low visibility". I always use them with the parkers because my XR's mercury silver colour. I usually forget to turn them off after though....

[LG]

For Victoria anyway:

You're allowed to use your front fog/driving lights any time of the day. However, rear fog lamps can only be used in the appropriate conditions.

Q: When can I use the fog lamps on my car?

A: There is no restriction on the use of front fog lamps. However, the lamps must be correctly aimed as fog lamps so as not to dazzle other road users. Rear fog lamps may only be lit in abnormal weather conditions.

Q: Driving Lights - How many headlamps can I have?

A: A maximum of six main-beam headlamps are allowed. The lamps must be wired so when the dip switch is operated no more than two lamps, showing dipped beams, can be left alight

Taken from vicroads

[GTP 320]

Originally Posted by LG

For Victoria anyway:

You're allowed to use your front fog/driving lights any time of the day. However, rear fog lamps can only be used in the appropriate conditions.



Taken from vicroads

Well there you go,so fog lights are legal to use in Victoria.
Cheers John

[Blue Oval Mopar Man]

Driving lights are NO different to spot lights! If you drive around with your spot lights on you would EXPECT to get booked! Why do people find that so hard to understand! I for one am sick of being blinded by w*#kers with their FAG lights on ! Have a little respect for other road users!

[BA Bakes]

Originally Posted by Blue Oval Mopar Man

Driving lights are NO different to spot lights! If you drive around with your spot lights on you would EXPECT to get booked! Why do people find that so hard to understand! I for one am sick of being blinded by w*#kers with their FAG lights on ! Have a little respect for other road users!

The BA light are 55W bulbs, unless people change them to a high wattage. Spotlight are normally around the 100W range. So therefore a S#!^ load brighter and there's a diffenrence there. Also, spotlight are to be wired to high beams only.

Also the BA lights dont have as much light aimed upward as the bumper shape acts as a shroud unlike the commonwhore ones.

I remember reading somewhere that there is a difference between fog and driving lights. Fogs light have yellow/orange lights and driving light and white.

I total argee with you guys regarding them blinding on coming traffic. But i'll bet my left nut that the ones that blind / dazzle on coming traffic have been incorrectly aimed and bulbs higher then 55W

[Stevo]

Good to hear

[One Drone]

I am one who actually hates them on, regardless if it's a Ford or Holden. They are unecessary and are only for aesthetics. That, and the VZ and BA headlights are bloody bright as it is, way better than my NL headlights.. In the rain, foglights are even worse as the light gets reflected off the shimmering road into oncoming drivers eyes.

I say a job well done to officers. Of course, that isn't saying I don't like what I don't have..

[BA Bakes]

Originally Posted by One Drone

I am one who actually hates them on, regardless if it's a Ford or Holden. They are unecessary and are only for aesthetics. That, and the VZ and BA headlights are bloody bright as it is, way better than my NL headlights.. In the rain, foglights are even worse as the light gets reflected off the shimmering road into oncoming drivers eyes.

I say a job well done to officers. Of course, that isn't saying I don't like what I don't have..

They are unnessecary at times, especially when driving in cities.

However, people who living in the country, such as myself and b2tf and others find them very helpful driving along a pitch black road with no street lights. They also help spotting skippings as they cast a fair amount of light to the sides as well.

Personally, if there aimed correctly i can't see any problems with them. Its just another way of the police revenue raising.

[b2tf]

I notice that due to the shape of the headlights on the Focus, its very hard to light up the road directly in front of the car with just the headlights, hence why i used my foglights.

And yes, ive had numerous runins with Skippy on the way out to the GF's place - the more i can do to light up the road and the side of it, the better. And using the foggies as well as highbeam is all i can do short of putting spotties on, which is not going to happen for obvious reasons.

[Trevor 57]

There is more specific law regarding them. I have posted the law on another website, I will track it down and re-post if for you. That is for SA, VIC, NSW & QLD.

All is not as simple as it seems.

Give me some time, as time is a bit short at the moment.

Well face it, if you drive with them on you're pretty much an inconsiderate w@nker who doen't give a damn about other people. Especially if you have those unshrouded ones Holden seems to be able to fit to their cars.

I will return the favour forever by giving you a dose of blinding lights in return.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Aussie Pete

Well face it, if you drive with them on you're pretty much an inconsiderate w@nker who doen't give a damn about other people. Especially if you have those unshrouded ones Holden seems to be able to fit to their cars.

I will return the favour forever by giving you a dose of blinding lights in return.

All i will say to that is that youre quite entitled to your opinion, but try driving some of the roads i do and you'll see why i use them.