Power ban on young drivers - QLD

[Sledgehammer]

Not sure if this has been posted yet?


December 29, 2006 11:00pm
Article from: The Courier-Mail


NEWLY licensed young drivers will be banned from driving high-performance vehicles under laws designed to arrest the state's rising road toll.
Drivers under 25 who obtain their provisional licence after July 1 next year will be prohibited from operating V8s and high-powered turbo and super-charged vehicles.

Up to 60,000 drivers each year will be affected by the laws, which also will include the introduction a three-year provisional licence.

Once drivers obtain their open licence they will be free to drive any registered vehicle.

Grieving father David Benjamin knows too well the danger of high-powered vehicles.

His daughter Alesha, 18, was killed when her boyfriend, 17, smashed his Holden Commodore into a powerpole on Brisbane's southside in May.

He is facing charges over Alesha's death.

"These kids should not have these vehicles because they are deadly," Mr Benjamin said.

"These laws are going to save a lot of kids lives and lot of parents the misery we've had to go through."

Drivers aged under 25 who receive an open-class or provisional licence before July 1 next year will be exempt from the new legislation.

Transport Minister Paul Lucas said it would have been unfair to introduce the laws retrospectively but a line had to be drawn somewhere.

"Young drivers behind the wheel of eight-cylinder cars involved in crashes in Queensland from 2001-2005 were twice as likely to be driving with excessive speed – 11.5 per cent – when compared with young drivers in cars with less than eight cylinders – 5.6 per cent," Mr Lucas said.

Unlike NSW and Victoria, Queensland will not list excluded cars but will provide a thorough definition and specifications of high-performance vehicles. Hundreds of cars will be off-limits.

The criteria, to be finalised in the first half of 2007, will not affect vehicles with small engines fitted with turbochargers, and are unlikely to target diesel-powered vehicles.

Mr Lucas said driving recklessly in a family four-cylinder car was dangerous but the added power of some vehicles, coupled with youthful inexperience and exuberance, was a recipe for disaster.

"Provisional drivers in particular are more at risk than learner drivers," Mr Lucas said.

"I don't subscribe to the view – particularly where parents supply cars to children – that once a child turns 18 they aren't subject to parental interest or control."

RACQ spokesman John Wikman said there needed to be an education campaign because the laws would be confusing.

"We are not totally against it but we wouldn't have gone and lobbied for it," Mr Wikman said.

"Police will have to be experts on different models of cars."

A police spokesman said officers were undergoing vehicle identification training and during random operations would often have a Queensland Transport expert on-site. He said it was proposed that police refer cars to Queensland Transport if uncertain whether it was turbocharged, supercharged or modified.

[Sledgehammer]

Again they blame the vehicles when they should be looking at the education of the drivers. Its a short sighted view and does not fix or attempt to correct the problem.

It should be mandatory for performance driving lessons, and for observed testing for aged licence holders as well.

Oh and I can see that the police are of course expects on all types of vehicles as well, sorry for the scarcism.

One thing that they forget here too is the effect that it has on the trade as well, their must be '000s of companies making a living off selling parts like guages stereos etc to the under 25's.

[Beetus]

yeh so they can still drive v series 90's commodores? and 90's falcons? thats just a stupid way of looking at it, my ed v8 was lsower than say a ba falcon 6 or au even...................what a joke...........it doesnt effect me but thats stupid.......

[poolkeeper]

All they have to do is look at happenend when NSW brought in the system, some people are stupid...

[Hunter]

The way they're going to implement the laws looks better than how our southern counterparts have. I do think young d`ckheads should be prevented from driving powerful/fast/performance vehicle. They need to start out in some underpowered jobbie. Maybe one of those rotary-powered Kingswoods that they tried to sell in Japan (hehe).

This is how its done in racing - you don't start out driving a V8SC - a lot of race drivers start out driving little gokarts (which whilst dangerous, are a lot less of a handful for the inexperienced). This is also how they do it with motorbikes - nobody has complained about the fact that they can't go out and get a motorbike license then jump onto a 1000 cc bike, have they?

I started out in a clapped out Gemini which taught me a lot about the road and how dangerous it can be. I now own a 6 cyl EL Falcon, which isn't a performance beastie by any stretch, but I could see an inexperienced driver coming unstuck in the Falcon in the wet (or perhaps the dry depending on how good the tyres/suspension components are). The Gemini was a lot harder to lose it, though when it did it usually did so in spectacular fashion.

Whilst I don't think this is the ONLY answer, I do think it'll help a lot.

Basically, ban the kids from hi-po cars, prosecute people who try to get around the legislation (including stupid parents who buy their kids fast cars) and provide a lot more training.

[GCFordChic]

There was another thread somewhere on the same topic but went off on different tangents, so probably best not to bring it back to life...

As for all of this, all I can say is thank goodness I will be on my opens in a month or two and this wont possibly affect me and my XR8.

I agree that it is stupid blaming cars alone and ignoring the bigger issues like education. But it takes years to develop and introduce education programs, so politicians wont be able to impress the voting public during their term, hence they just introduce some restrictions, which they can be commended for straight away (most importantly for them, before the next election). We will not see any real changes in education until we get a politician who is more interested in investing long term in good drivers rather than their office, free transport and polly salary.

And the day someone is off their restricted Ps and goes out buys an 8 or turbo6 then wraps it around a pole because they have no experience with handling them, but think they can because now they are not restricted by law (and they think that means they are a great driver), this restriction will have helped how?

[XAGSV8]

Three things.
* When I got my license in 1997 you were only allowed three F's before you failed. Why is it now nine F's ?
* They need to introduce drivers education into school. Even if it is just one lesson a week.
* When are they going to learn not all V8's are ALL POWERFUL. If they are going to introduce restrictions they need to do it by power to weight. My 302 Fairmont is only as fast as a BA 6 pack. My uncles 253 holden ute is even worse.

[Venomous]

So my XR6 should be right yeah?
It's pretty much stock with a 2 & 1/2 exhaust with a hi-flo cat.
I better be lol, or might i still be able to do more mods to it.
Guess i should just wait and see.
I also heard that if you own the vehicle your right to keep it?
Is this the case?

[XT UTE 68]

Agree with your points Hunter.

Banning V8's is not the only answer. My 6cyl falcons the ED, XE and Au3 have just as much speed as the old XT V8. And I agree that an older 6cyl with worn out suspension and crap tyres is a bigger death trap than a well looked after V8.

How many of our junior.s start out in worn out older cars, that they drive hard. herb up the motor, wack in springs on the cheap and forget about the suspension joints etc.

[Falcon Coupe]

The point people don't seem to grasp about powerful cars is not the speed but the acceleration, a stock 6 cylinder falcon will not do a U turn in the dry if given a boot full, whereas a Hypo V8 or turbo can create all sorts of situations in the dry, i don't even try do drive my coupe in the wet, it's scary.

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer

Not sure if this has been posted yet?


December 29, 2006 11:00pm
Article from: The Courier-Mail


NEWLY licensed young drivers will be banned from driving high-performance vehicles under laws designed to arrest the state's rising road toll.
Drivers under 25 who obtain their provisional licence after July 1 next year will be prohibited from operating V8s and high-powered turbo and super-charged vehicles.

Up to 60,000 drivers each year will be affected by the laws, which also will include the introduction a three-year provisional licence.

Once drivers obtain their open licence they will be free to drive any registered vehicle.

Grieving father David Benjamin knows too well the danger of high-powered vehicles.

His daughter Alesha, 18, was killed when her boyfriend, 17, smashed his Holden Commodore into a powerpole on Brisbane's southside in May.

He is facing charges over Alesha's death.

"These kids should not have these vehicles because they are deadly," Mr Benjamin said.

"These laws are going to save a lot of kids lives and lot of parents the misery we've had to go through."

Drivers aged under 25 who receive an open-class or provisional licence before July 1 next year will be exempt from the new legislation.

Transport Minister Paul Lucas said it would have been unfair to introduce the laws retrospectively but a line had to be drawn somewhere.

"Young drivers behind the wheel of eight-cylinder cars involved in crashes in Queensland from 2001-2005 were twice as likely to be driving with excessive speed – 11.5 per cent – when compared with young drivers in cars with less than eight cylinders – 5.6 per cent," Mr Lucas said.

Unlike NSW and Victoria, Queensland will not list excluded cars but will provide a thorough definition and specifications of high-performance vehicles. Hundreds of cars will be off-limits.

The criteria, to be finalised in the first half of 2007, will not affect vehicles with small engines fitted with turbochargers, and are unlikely to target diesel-powered vehicles.

Mr Lucas said driving recklessly in a family four-cylinder car was dangerous but the added power of some vehicles, coupled with youthful inexperience and exuberance, was a recipe for disaster.

"Provisional drivers in particular are more at risk than learner drivers," Mr Lucas said.

"I don't subscribe to the view – particularly where parents supply cars to children – that once a child turns 18 they aren't subject to parental interest or control."

RACQ spokesman John Wikman said there needed to be an education campaign because the laws would be confusing.

"We are not totally against it but we wouldn't have gone and lobbied for it," Mr Wikman said.

"Police will have to be experts on different models of cars."

A police spokesman said officers were undergoing vehicle identification training and during random operations would often have a Queensland Transport expert on-site. He said it was proposed that police refer cars to Queensland Transport if uncertain whether it was turbocharged, supercharged or modified.

What a joke!

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

The point people don't seem to grasp about powerful cars is not the speed but the acceleration, a stock 6 cylinder falcon will not do a U turn in the dry if given a boot full.

Nah, in my experience it can - but only if it has REALLY bad tyres on it. When I bought mine, the old dude before me had put the worst tyres I had ever seen on it - they were hard, brittle and as old as the hills. Every tyre place I've talked to has never even heard of them. I reckon they wouldn't have cost him more than about 20 bucks each they were that bad. You could quite easily get the back to step out in the dry with those tyres... Needless to say, they were the first thing I got rid of. I've got 225 GIIIs on it now and its muuuchh better/safer.

[Falcon Coupe]

True, but add an extra 350hp to that equation and it would happen at speed.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

True, but add an extra 350hp to that equation and it would happen at speed.

Certainly would. Its kind of scary but thrilling when you're in a car that *could* do that at 80 km/h if you flattened it. Like you know the power is there but are afraid to touch it lest you get bitten :

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Certainly would. Its kind of scary but thrilling when you're in a car that *could* do that at 80 km/h if you flattened it. Like you know the power is there but are afraid to touch it lest you get bitten :

Welcome to the world of the Hypo Cleveland ! :

[Donny]

I tend to think education would be a good starting point to fix the problem in the long term. I also thing much more stringent driving tests need to be added. When I learnt to drive (Late 80's), they taught the basics ONLY, and that was all, I think that driving schools should teach ALL the essential skills involved in driving, such as parking, night driving, some kind of skid pan simulation for wet driving and mostly....driver awareness of OTHER drivers, to hell with the cost, specially when the end result of NOT doing it can cost life.
I also think that the licences should be in 2 levels of attainment like heavy vehicle licences are, 1 is normal auto/manual, but restricted to NON performance/sporty cars, basically normal 4 cyl type cars with no turbos etc, and the second is full open, available to any who complete and graduate from a compatent advanced driving school after a minimum of 2 years on basic licence 1.

I know this would be costly to instigate, and do, and the education and staffing levels of officials and licencing would have to be raised, but as stated earlier, what price do we put on life???

This opinion is aimed at all newer drivers with less than 5 years of total driving experiance......

[poolkeeper]

Originally Posted by GCFordChic

There was another thread somewhere on the same topic but went off on different tangents, so probably best not to bring it back to life...

As for all of this, all I can say is thank goodness I will be on my opens in a month or two and this wont possibly affect me and my XR8.

I agree that it is stupid blaming cars alone and ignoring the bigger issues like education. But it takes years to develop and introduce education programs, so politicians wont be able to impress the voting public during their term, hence they just introduce some restrictions, which they can be commended for straight away (most importantly for them, before the next election). We will not see any real changes in education until we get a politician who is more interested in investing long term in good drivers rather than their office, free transport and polly salary.

And the day someone is off their restricted Ps and goes out buys an 8 or turbo6 then wraps it around a pole because they have no experience with handling them, but think they can because now they are not restricted by law (and they think that means they are a great driver), this restriction will have helped how?

Exactly what I think.

Im going to be hoon when Im of my p plates, but really Im not because I have a full license and I now have plenty of experience with high horsepower cars

[red_hotxr6]

Thank god for that, it is about time they implemented these laws. It will not be perfect, but as time goes on they will refine the laws so it is fairer.however if you have a look at the ststistics you will see how many of these kids are dead, how many they have killed and maimed, and how many of them were driving a high powered vehicle. These laws do not stop you from buying an "under powered" vehicle, or stopping you from going out in them or going to work. You can still buy a high powered vehicle, un registered, fix it up to how you want it, get your opens, register that car and then drive it around.

[majin_andrew]

IMO power doesn't kill people, hitting solid objects such as power poles/trees/ kills people, and this can happen at 80km/hr in a camry. I have only had my P's for a number of months, and since I got my L's I have driven almost exclusively falcon 6's (usually an AUIII). I know for a fact that I am a much safer driver than my mate who has only recently driven an EB after previously driving a Laser. The MAIN killer with young people is their attitude and recklessness and overstepping the limitations of what the car can handle. A lot of this P-plate reckless driving happens in 80kW Lancers. At least powerful cars usually have improved brakes and handling than their underpowered siblings.

[Falcon SXR8]

Another great rule here its an easy way for the gov to look like they are trying to do something, and best of all it will cost them nothing to implement it, not like that stupid better driver education that most people want to see and would probably do something to lower the road toll. Now my mates younger brother won't be able to buy my eb beacuse he gets his p plates after that date GREAT JUST GREAT.

[XR8-260]

These clowns are blaming V8s again... I'm soooooo going to speed in my V8 landcruiser (sarcasm).

[XR8-260]

Don't forget that many of these new hi-powered cars come with features such as DSC, traction control, numerous airbags, ABS. They are acutally much safer that many of the older 'less powerful' cars.

[Bossxr8]

Hasn't the death toll of drivers under the age of 25 actually INCREASED since NSW has introduced these laws. Proves it doesn't work. Doesn't matter what type of car it is, it is still a deadly weapon in the hands of someone with next to zero training, wether it has 300kw or 30kw.

I'm over hearing the same pathetic ways the governments and police are trying to reduce the road toll. The only way to do it is proper driver training before you get your P's. They know it too but don't want to spend a cent on it as it would be rather expensive. They will only do things that will cost them next to nothing and will make the government money through fines like greed cameras.

[Ford_V8]

Ha, they are never going to get it, it doesn't matter what car they're in, idiots will always be idiots. And last time I checked, driving into a tree at 100km/h in a commodore is actually alot safer than driving into a tree at 100km/h in an excel. fools : ....

[XR8-260]

If the government is so keen on stopping speeding then why not make all cars have a speed limiter of 110kph? You can't legally exceed that speed anyway (maybe in NT and when overtaking). I know this sounds stupid but it may actually work... :hihi:

[Lukeyson]

Originally Posted by Venomous

So my XR6 should be right yeah?
It's pretty much stock with a 2 & 1/2 exhaust with a hi-flo cat.
I better be lol, or might i still be able to do more mods to it.
Guess i should just wait and see.
I also heard that if you own the vehicle your right to keep it?
Is this the case?

Yes, i gather because its for people getting there licence, not applying to those who have their licence already.

When that law came in to NSW a while back my wife was on her P's, and she has an AU XR8, she was not liking the thought of having to sell it and get a 4 or 6 cyl , but she already had her licence, so it was fine

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by 30487256

If the government is so keen on stopping speeding then why not make all cars have a speed limiter of 110kph? You can't legally exceed that speed anyway (maybe in NT and when overtaking). I know this sounds stupid but it may actually work... :hihi:

Here's a scenario for you. Sitting on a highway with a 100kmh posted limit. You get stuck behind a B double truck doing 90. You find a straight and then go to overtake. Within 2 seconds you hit the speed limiter and find yourself stuck on the wrong side of the road for what feels like an eternity with a car coming the other way.

Good in theory, bad in practice.

[XR8-260]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Here's a scenario for you. Sitting on a highway with a 100kmh posted limit. You get stuck behind a B double truck doing 90. You find a straight and then go to overtake. Within 2 seconds you hit the speed limiter and find yourself stuck on the wrong side of the road for what feels like an eternity with a car coming the other way.

Good in theory, bad in practice.

The rule book says that drivers must not exceed the speed limit when overtaking. Personally I think it is a BS rule and I fully agree with you.

[chalkys1966]

banning under 25 drivers from high powered cars is not a full solution but the politicians have to be seen to do something. i walk around my local area here in epping and see p platers driving turbo cars and v8s like mad idiots. ok so people will bag me out because we should 'educate' drivers but should not that already have happened once you have a licence?
another thing i notice now is the number of p platers who drive cars with standard or after market rims on the rear only. er isnt it obvious what they are doing? is getting your licence a permit to drag race and do burn outs. to me it seems the answer is yes for some of these people. thats my 2 cents out:

[WHIPLASH]

Being a young driver i can agree and disagree with these laws coming in but i just have to say that most of the time when a young driver is behind the wheel of a high performance vehicle, he/she has just been given the keys and said DRIVE. Dad has an 04 model GT and i have driven this on numerous occasions and now that i have driven it the mystery of its power is taken away from me and now i see that it has the power to GOOO and that equals the power to kill. Making young drivers completely banned from high performance vehicles is neither a good or bad thing its just a choice made to lower road tolls but it doesn't fully matter that the car is higher power its the skill the driver at the time has behind the wheel. I can treat my EA falcon S the same way as the GT and i know that im gunna be working alot harder to control the GT then i would the EA.

Also with these laws it takes away the choice for a young driver to buy a 4x4 with a turbo 6 or desiel doesnt it ??

My two cents anyways everyones view is different

Little fox