Carrying an extra 500kg?

OzJavelin · 29-09-2005, 08:09 AM

I'm working on a theoretical project - don't laugh .. SV1/SV2/AP6 Valiant with 3.5L alloy V8 - and was checking out weights of these vehicles (so I can determine if a 215ci V8 can suitably repower a car originally with a 225ci /6). The MAXIMUM weight I can find for one of these is 1218kg. My rough understanding of modern cars is that a Commodore is roughly 1600kg and a Falcon 1700kg ... so modern cars are carrying 400-500kg more weight than their "family sedan" equivalents of 40years ago and they were ALL steel. So despite all the plastic, aluminimum, CAD/CAM, etc we have to lug around the equivalent of 4-5 fat guys just to get down the shops!
Yes I understand all the benefits of modern cars, and yes this is an overly simplistic view, but what about building a smaller, lighter, 6/V8 powered vehicle? Fourty years ago an average family with three kids would fit in an AP6/EH/XP .. why is it now that anyone with (god forbid!) two kids needs a SUV the size of a Hummer!!

Fairlane · 29-09-2005, 10:33 AM

Safety pretty much, reinforced crossmembers, crumple zones and all increased steel reinforcing not to mention stuff likely much larger brakes, tyres, more complicated suspensions, bigger and more complicated motors (no pushrods and EFI), airconditioning, more complicated exhauts power steering, god knows how much electical wiring, stereo's, carpeting/soundproofing not to mention stuff like thicker steel all add up to one heavy car.

I find it a bit dodgy too, but it seems to be the way it is 1.5ton+ cars are going to be the future.

As for the 3.5 V8 are you thinking of using the Rover V8, cause that would be certainly interesting. Though if you wanted to try something different you could use the Leyland 4.4V8 (dont know if it fits) or perhaps a more modern 6 cylinder

deesun · 29-09-2005, 05:51 PM

PHEW, I thought you were taking the pi** out of me :jab:

OzJavelin · 29-09-2005, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairlane

As for the 3.5 V8 are you thinking of using the Rover V8, cause that would be certainly interesting. Though if you wanted to try something different you could use the Leyland 4.4V8 (dont know if it fits) or perhaps a more modern 6 cylinder

Yeah .. I'm going small-and-cheap (to buy and run) here. I'm falling over Rover 3.5L V8s .. Leyland 4.4L V8s are getting rare(ish). I also thought the comparison of 215ci to 225ci would help make rego people smile?

mcflux · 29-09-2005, 06:38 PM

215ci V8 would mean less torque for the Val. Personally I'd stick with the six, unless you're after that wonderful exhaust note

lol you know you want the V8 and just want it as a cruiser ;)

vztrt · 29-09-2005, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

I'm working on a theoretical project - don't laugh .. SV1/SV2/AP6 Valiant with 3.5L alloy V8 - and was checking out weights of these vehicles (so I can determine if a 215ci V8 can suitably repower a car originally with a 225ci /6).

Why dont you try to get your hands on a 265 hemi, unless you just want a cruser. A few small mods (tripple webber carbie and exhaust) can give you about 200kW (cant remember if it was at the wheels or flywheel). Also it's one reliable engine. Also as it's a valiant motor you should have less hassles implementing it.

Steffo · 29-09-2005, 07:21 PM

I say go for the Rover 215. Its something different... and its a very good engine. They get plenty of power out of them in the UK, and its got some interchangeable bits with the SBC (cyl heads for example... so you can put AFRs on it :evil3: )

brenx · 29-09-2005, 07:57 PM

they extra weights in safety as stated above. It's also in sound proofing and rust proofing ;)

If your keen on staying with a 6cyl. CHI makes these

Flow chart comparisons here -> http://www.chiheads.com/heads_04.html#

Psycho Chicken · 29-09-2005, 08:04 PM

Yeah but fuel economy is better, can we really complain?

OzJavelin · 30-09-2005, 07:26 AM

While I'm annoying people with an O/Tish subject .. does anyone know if a RoverV8 still uses the original Buick/Oldsmobile/Pontiac trans boltpattern of the "original" 215ci? ... O/D auto anyone? [ the 3.8LV6 holden is a derivative of this engine ]

ZC-Cruiser · 30-09-2005, 07:47 AM

Yep, new cars are heavy - our ZC with Alloy Head II, Air, Stereo, 850 litre boot etc is only 1450kg.....

Gets 11l/100km fully loaded with two adults and a baby and all their gear (boot full and passenger side of rear seat stacked with bags).

That will improve to sub 10l/100km with 205/65R15 tyres instead of the 215/65R14 tyres...

xyute · 03-10-2005, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairlane

not to mention stuff like thicker steel heavy car.

Thicker steel? You must be joking? Those old Valiants are built like tanks it takes 2 ppl to carry the front wing off an AP5/6, and for all your crumple zones and reinforced doors etc an old Val is gonna sale straight through you EL. Now I know i'm gonna get roasted by ppl who are gonna quote MTA crash tests at me but crashing a car into a concrete black a 35kph dont meen squat in the real world. All the weight in modern cars aint really structural. Oh by the way the dry curb weight of an XB GT is approx 1600kg and thats all steel.

Sorry if I went a little off topic there, but stick with the 225 if you can they are a beast of a motor with more torque than you can shake a stick at, might be a bit thirsty though.

noosacuda · 04-10-2005, 07:41 AM

The Rover 3.5 is a good motor,i was building a hot rod from a '49 Vauxhall Velox with LJ Torana front end and diff with a Rover V8,and from memory the motor was about the same weight as a Holden 6(?). But inthe Val it would be pretty gutless,as they (Rover V8's) could hardly pull the Rover they came from. BTY a Slant 6 weighs 525lbs, approx.239kg. Try the Toyota or Nissan alloy Hemi's??

OzJavelin · 04-10-2005, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noosacuda

But inthe Val it would be pretty gutless,as they (Rover V8's) could hardly pull the Rover they came from.

I remember reading an article in Australian Muscle Car about some fantastic Rover V8 sports sedan that Rover sent to Australia to compete with the locals .. (one of) it's problems was weight .. it weighed a LOT for it's size. I'd be suspicious that an AP6 would actually weigh less than a Rover3500?

OzJavelin · 04-10-2005, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

I remember reading an article in Australian Muscle Car about some fantastic Rover V8 sports sedan that Rover sent to Australia to compete with the locals .. (one of) it's problems was weight .. it weighed a LOT for it's size. I'd be suspicious that an AP6 would actually weigh less than a Rover3500?

Yep .. base Rover 3500 = 1274kg .. AP6 = 1218kg