Tune worth it

robbyj · 22-11-2010, 07:31 PM

Well after doing a bit of researching of late.. cams, diff gears etc to go that next stage

iv decided against doing any of that. Simply because i dont want to throw out my fuel economy which can get me 500-700 kms a tank on 91. depending how i drive. (also my speedo is exactly right, which i find very handy)

So i'm asking in your opinion.. is it worth getting a tune with just the CIA and full exhaust system done?

I have heard good things about pitlane performance on these forums and would possibly choose them.

I know i would expect to pay around the $1000 dollar mark.
Does this include the flash tuner box thing?

Here is a dyno sheet off their website with a standard BA XR6 w/ exhaust tune gaining nearly 30 rwkw .. which i think is pretty good..

what are your thoughts anyway.

The Monty · 22-11-2010, 08:14 PM

Id do it. People go on about doing all your mods first, but in reality, Id rather have it tuned now, and IF you do anymore mods, fork out a couple of hundred for a retune.

Sox · 22-11-2010, 09:02 PM

I think tunes are ok, but I don't believe that amount of improvement is possible from just a tune alone.
10kw, maybe 15kw at the very most, but 27kw, not a chance IMO.

Though let's assume that it was true for a moment, it doesn't mean it would apply to an AU anyhow.

Barryxr6turbo · 22-11-2010, 09:11 PM

Dont forget the majority of the tune only gains for NA cars are turning the timing up to suit better fuel.

Do you want to run premium to take full advantage of getting a tune?

Or at least swap fuels and the tune to suit?

I wouldnt bother myself. Small jumps in power like that feel slow again awful quick.

bartsau · 22-11-2010, 10:18 PM

Well that dyno sheet is with a BA so completely different in terms of the gains achievable as there is more that can be changed in the tune.

Below is the tune I got done a while ago and I must say it made a difference. Fuel economy is slightly better despite a very very heavy right foot however it does require 98 octane.

Last week I drove from Frankston-Kyabram-Swan Hill-Frankston. Sitting on 100-120 the majority or the way and coming back home through peak hour in the city. Overall the whole trip it averaged 10.4 L/100km. Now also note this is manual and with the 3.45LSD and at 100km/hr it sits on 2150-2200 and at 110 sits at around 2350rpm. Keeping this in mind I reckon it is pretty damn good.

Further more I accidentally put 95octane in today (From near on dead empty) So I whacked the standard tune back in and now it feels lethargic like it just does not want to rev freely.

Dyno Sheet with before and after. Mods are in my sig below.

Hope this sheds some light on the matter.

PS. Just noticed that BA tune was done by Mick at Pit lane so mine and the BA above where both results from the one dyno.

Day-mow · 22-11-2010, 11:57 PM

i would of thought it would be worth it. you could even get a highway tune.

The Monty · 23-11-2010, 03:50 AM

Not really. The AU's have some pretty extreme features that help them wit fuel economy already. Long diff gears, the Overdrive in 3rd and 4th, and a lean cruise mode, which after sustaining speed for longer periods have been data logged at getting fuel mixtures as lean as 17:1.

Barryxr6turbo · 23-11-2010, 06:31 AM

I'm not sure about that. How would the overdrive work in 3rd, are you talking about the lock up converter in an auto?

The diff gears are the same as every other falcon too. 3.23 and 3.45. Did any AU's come with anything else?

Ive done a fair bit of data logging on my old AU ute and I've never had it give me mixtures other than 14.5 - 15.2 at cruise. It quite clearly targets a 14.7ish AFR, I'm not sure if this can be adjusted with a flash tuner though.

One thing that does help compared to earlier models that you haven't mentioned is the sequential fuel injection.

frd906 · 23-11-2010, 08:55 AM

My au sedan has a 3.08 diff

blueoval · 23-11-2010, 01:36 PM

A tune is only worth it if you are prepared to run better fuel. You can only get so much out of 91ron fuel. I'd perhaps look at doing the CAI and exhaust as well as a 95 tune. That way you will get the most out of it.

If you did tune alone on 91 fuel. My guess is you'd get some improved drive ability and smooth running, but very little power gain. I'd say less than 10rwkw. Again, timing is adjusted to suit the mods you have.

Depends on what you are after. The tune will be an improvement, but a small one at that if you did not do any other mods other than a tune.

Also consider having more than 1 tune on a flash box. A 91 tune for economy should maintain similar figures you have now, but some added power even if its small. And also have a 95 or 98 tune for those times you want to give the car some curry. That way you have the best of both worlds. But each tune you add is a few hundred in tune time.

For me, I have a valet tune on tune 1, a 98 tune on tune 2 and a 98/E85 tune on tune 3. When ever there is no E85 around I just stick 98 in and flash it to tune 2. Power is down yes, but economy is improved for city driving. But that's how I've set mine up. I'm not saying that is the best for you, just gives you an idea on what you can do rather than accept the minimum.

Just be aware that custom tunes are always better for getting the maximum potential for each individual vehicle. But Im sure you already knew this.

The Monty · 23-11-2010, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barryxr6turbo

I'm not sure about that. How would the overdrive work in 3rd, are you talking about the lock up converter in an auto?

The diff gears are the same as every other falcon too. 3.23 and 3.45. Did any AU's come with anything else?

Ive done a fair bit of data logging on my old AU ute and I've never had it give me mixtures other than 14.5 - 15.2 at cruise. It quite clearly targets a 14.7ish AFR, I'm not sure if this can be adjusted with a flash tuner though.

One thing that does help compared to earlier models that you haven't mentioned is the sequential fuel injection.

Yes Im talking about the lock up clutch in the converter, 3rd and 4th gear, commonly known as "overdrive" in AU circles.
AU's came out with 3.08's, 3.23, and 3.45's.
I cant remember who said it, but Im sure it was one of the tuner companies that mentioned it (regarding fuel mixtures).

robbyj · 23-11-2010, 08:41 PM

i was also under the impression that car companies have these really good engines, but limit the power for better fuel economy/safer cars.

i would probably get a 91 tune for economy and a 95 or 98 for an all out tune.

However i cant justify 10rwkw for the cost..

The Monty · 24-11-2010, 03:48 AM

Well to put 10rwkw into perspective, we pay around $2500 for 15kw for a cam, around $1000 for 12 for a full exhaust, up to $150 for a kandN filter for about 1kw....

Sox · 24-11-2010, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

Yes Im talking about the lock up clutch in the converter, 3rd and 4th gear, commonly known as "overdrive" in AU circles.
AU's came out with 3.08's, 3.23, and 3.45's.
I cant remember who said it, but Im sure it was one of the tuner companies that mentioned it (regarding fuel mixtures).

The lock up feature of the converter has actually been around since the 4 spd box hit the streets in 1990 (EA2).
And I think the diff ratios have been much the same since around EF days.
IIRC, even the lean cruise has been around a loong time.

None of those tricks are unique to AU, the only thing which AU got over the earlier models is the sequential EFI.

blueoval · 24-11-2010, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

Well to put 10rwkw into perspective, we pay around $2500 for 15kw for a cam, around $1000 for 12 for a full exhaust, up to $150 for a kandN filter for about 1kw....

Great point. This pretty much says it all.

robbyj · 24-11-2010, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

Well to put 10rwkw into perspective, we pay around $2500 for 15kw for a cam, around $1000 for 12 for a full exhaust, up to $150 for a kandN filter for about 1kw....

good point.. didnt think of it in that perspective.
suddenly it seems worth it again..

any predictions on rwkw gain for a tune for 98 ?
might be better to ask a few tuners themselves.

Dave_Obsession · 24-11-2010, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

up to $150 for a kandN filter for about 1kw....

If anybody pays that much for an K&N filter, they have too much money...

blueoval · 24-11-2010, 05:30 PM

every car is different Rob. Plus it depends on the tuner, ambient temp on the day the tune is done. The dyno machine can differ from others too. I wouldn't use number as a gauge but a seat of the pants feel to tell you the difference.

That being said, if you just did a 98ron tune with nothing else, I'd expect up to a 15rwkw difference and more torque. Higher again if you did full exhaust and CAI.

robbyj · 24-11-2010, 06:34 PM

Yea iv got the full exhaust and CIA.
That's why i'm looking for that extra bit without opening the engine up or bolting something to it that is going to wreck my fuel economy.

i might shoot an email off to pitlane performance.

Thanks shav.

blueoval · 25-11-2010, 11:06 AM

No probs mate. Im sure the site sponsors can assist in whats best. Just try not to look at the overall 'figure' as a deciding factor.

robbyj · 25-11-2010, 05:53 PM

This is the email i received.

Why would the thermostat need doing? and my plugs are only 10,000 ks old if that.
I also thought the 1000 odd dollars included the flash box thing.
a bit to think about but i think ill pass.

Hi Robert,
To custom tune your car it will cost you $1545 which includes your custom
tune and your SCT XCal3 box which will then belong to you. You will need to
also factor in another $230 for spark plugs and a thermostat at the time of
the tune. We would require your car for a full day with a full tank of fuel,
preferably 98 octane, as that is what we normally tune with, assuming that
you would continue to use 98 Octane.

Your standard factory tune will be in Slot 1 on your XCal 3 so you can
return back to that if you wish. With a tune we would hope to see a 10rwkw
gain. The last AU we tuned was a manual and showed a 12-14rwkw gain. Some
cars will show more than 10 and some will show less. As AU's are getting
older now, engine condition will have a bearing on the final result and
driveability of the car.

Day-mow · 25-11-2010, 06:46 PM

i dont know that what includes but to me that does seem like a fair bit. call capp 08 8582 3499. and order a flash tuner from them.mine was $715 inc freight.(does look like there has been a price rise tho)
http://www.capa.com.au/ford_flash_tuner_x3.htm

this included a basic 98 octane tune that has mad some minimal improvements in performance. and i managed to recently get 9.07 Lt per 100km on a trip back from melbourne to Adelaide.

i am planning on getting the car custom tuned pretty soon. most of the quotes im being given are between $300-$500 and that inc a tune or 3

robbyj · 25-11-2010, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day-mow

i dont know that what includes but to me that does seem like a fair bit. call capp 08 8582 3499. and order a flash tuner from them.mine was $715 inc freight.(does look like there has been a price rise tho)
http://www.capa.com.au/ford_flash_tuner_x3.htm

this included a basic 98 octane tune that has mad some minimal improvements in performance. and i managed to recently get 9.07 Lt per 100km on a trip back from melbourne to Adelaide.

i am planning on getting the car custom tuned pretty soon. most of the quotes im being given are between $300-$500 and that inc a tune or 3

Yea i was happy with 1000 for 10+ kws but 1500 is getting a bit up there i think.

That's a good suggestion tho, buy the flash box then get some quotes for just the tune.

Ill look around for some more quotes.

bartsau · 25-11-2010, 10:00 PM

Well $1545 seems to be pretty normal as that is what most places charge. As for new plugs and thermostat. That is just simply a measure of ensuring that you get the most out of the tune and that it does not risk the life of your motor etc.

Before I had mine tuned I got the Fuel Pressure tested to make sure I didn't have an problems in the fuel rails etc. I had also just replaced plugs with Iridiums and done oil/filter and CAI with pod filter.

So I had covered my bases to make sure it was all good to go. I would assume any tuner should query the condition of these items as they may lead to problems and they then end up costing the customer whom will not be happy about it.

I probably would not have bothered tuning mine except that I will again be using the flash tuner when I put a V8 in it. Therefore the only cost I experienced for now in my view was the Tune itself.

Hope this helps you. Having said that after having the stock tune back in for a few days it feels dead compared to the custom tune.

Rhys

frd906 · 25-11-2010, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

None of those tricks are unique to AU, the only thing which AU got over the earlier models is the sequential EFI.

Also they got the engine cut out feature if it detects coolant loss or a problem with the engine

The Monty · 26-11-2010, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frd906

Also they got the engine cut out feature if it detects coolant loss or a problem with the engine

Yes correct, this helped fuel economy heaps as well.

Barryxr6turbo · 26-11-2010, 06:04 AM

Are you just guessing or what?

It only shuts off cylinders when there is no coolant so unless you take a rad hose off it doesn't help economy at all.

Lol at 3rd gear with the convertor lockup being known as an overdrive in au circles. Not very clever circles.

Sox · 26-11-2010, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frd906

Also they got the engine cut out feature if it detects coolant loss or a problem with the engine

Yer, but it has no effect on economy which was Montys original point.

blueoval · 26-11-2010, 11:17 AM

Hey Rob,

That price while pricey is run of the mill for some of the more popular workshops. Up to you if you want to spend that sort of cash. I would seriously consider calling T.I. performance and asking them about what they can do for the AU. From what i know, it will cost up to $215 for the programmer pack which includes the J3 chip and programmer, and then all you need to do is find a tuner who knows J3's and has a dyno and pay him for his time to tune it. Whats that worth? $400 for tuning time? So $615 in total for everything??? I know what I would be doing.

Day-mow · 26-11-2010, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueoval

I would be doing.

That's is...... Isn't it?