Buying a New Car and dealing with 'The Pitch'.....

[EB#]

I've been looking into buying a brand new car (my first newy ever) and
have been to three dealerships so far. I had decided to only go to 3 or
maybe 4 for the sake of simplicity.

I knew that I would have do deal with some spiel, spin, sales pitch, bs, whatever.....

but ....

Two of the three salesmen I've met have laid it on so thick with the talk,
cliches, blah this, blah that, without actually quoting prices or trade values
that I end up feeling frustrated, pressured, tired, and kind of uncomfortable.

I have been checking out the Holden utes as well as the Falcons, as I have
have some interest in both. It took me 4 days, 3 phone calls and 2 emails to
actually get some Holden payload figures from customer service !! I ended
up sending the figures to my local dealer, as he didn't know anything about
them !!

A Ford salesman rang me yesterday with the tone of voice and expectation
that he has a right to be my final DEAL !! He also accused me of 'playing
games' because I have asked three dealers to offer me a trade quote.

These guys tend to make one feel that they are going out of their way to
help you, do a deal for you, go to extraordinary lengths, test cars etc etc...
This is just their job as far as I can see ! Also, I have not met a salesman
yet that knows more about their products than I do ! In fact, they seem
to know SFA.

This experience has ended up being stressful rather than an exciting event.
When I bought my BA from a local used car dealer a few years ago, it was
an easy and pleasant experience..... I may well go back there and look at
used cars instead ! I've also thought of abandoning the idea of a new
car altogether......

At the moment I've put the brakes on the plan, as I'm in no rush...
Maybe a couple of weeks off the trail, a bex and good lie down will help.

Sorry for the long post....

Any similar experiences from others here ?
Any tips or suggestions ?

Cheers.

[geckoGT]

From my experience, welcome to new car buying.

I like where I go now, I know the salesman well and he knows me. We only talk about the important stuff.

Sorry but he can't help you with any form of ute.

[anto]

I know your pain mate. Best way to approach it is go in theer and up front tell them youre looking for the best possible deal and that youre talking to all the dealers and also...importantly, IM NOT SIGNING ANYTHING TODAY !!

I had the same frustrations buying the FG but found a good dealer whos was casual and let me take control, bascily telling me "what do you want to pay".

hang in there, theres good deals to be had

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by EB92

When I bought my BA from a local used car dealer a few years ago, it was an easy and pleasant experience..... I may well go back there and look at used cars instead ! I've also thought of abandoning the idea of a new car altogether......

Exactly what happened with my wife and I when we went looking for an FG to replace out AU ute. Got such a run-around with the new carsales people that just gave up and bought a 9mth old second-hand one. Wasn't what I'd call pleasant, but was MORE pleasant than dealing with the new carsales people ..

Oh .. I think a lot of the salesmen know a lot more than they admit too. Plausible deniability?

[stang65]

At the end of the day it`s a sales position, they want to make money just like you want to save money. To me this is a pointless thread more about not about you getting a car for the price you want to pay. how would you be if you were the salesman knowing that the customer will get your price and go visit five other dealers to beat it. I`m not a car salesman, but I do get sick of bleeding hearts( not directed at you) that whinge because they are trying to save a buck.

On the other hand if you were paying RRP then you should expect to get your *** wiped and breakfast in bed :-)

[Glen 5150]

I quite enjoy the experience, as i like to play the game, but if it becomes to stressful for you mate, have you thought maybe just get a broker? Unless your good at haggling and enjoy the experience, a broker maybe the way to go?
If your determined to go it alone just stick to your budget and be prepared to walk, and enjoy the experience. Usually the second biggest purchase in your lifetime. They will weaken, its a buyers market. Just treat the salesmen like they treat you! The majoriy couldnt care less if you got hit by a bus on the way out, as long as the paperwork is signed!

P.S, maybe get a broker outside of Lismore? Smaller towns/cities sometimes brokers/dealers are in each others pockets and your really not sure if your getting the best deal? Just a thought.

Good luck with it.

[Professor Farnsworth]

as above! show them who's in control and don't take BS. It applies to second hand cars at Ford too though.

both times i bought a new Ford i got the same guy who was a top bloke, he was about my age and me and the mrs used to mess with him until he came down to our budget.

I can vouch for what you mean though, i have been test driving small cars recently and while i was at a certain Ford, i felt like i needed to take a shower. That's just the way it is. Hyundai & Kia were fantastic though, friendly and not the slightest bit pushy. Unfortunately for you they don't sell utes.

[bingoTE50]

Have you decided on the vehicle , if so ,have you decided on a change over price ? If so , go to the dealers quote a figure of less than you are prepared to spend ,without being silly , and see who will give you the deal. If you do not have these things in mind ,you will not get the help you really want.
You have to the deal best for you , maybe a broker is the way to go for you.
Buying cars can be tough , they want you to sign there and then.

[CODSASR]

as a car salesman its not the best feeling when a customer is going to 4 or 5 other dealers and you have the boss on your back about that deal.

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

Hyundai & Kia were fantastic though, friendly and not the slightest bit pushy. Unfortunately for you they don't sell utes.

I work at a Kia dealer in central vic and we have sold a few brand new fg utes among other newys from other brands for a better price then the brands dealers where offering.

[Rodge]

This is how I do it and i've bought quite a few new cars.

1. Decide what you want to buy. Sounds easier than it is sometimes but the golden rule is to test drive as many vehilces as are genuinely in the frame and not bother with those that arn't.
2. Find out the true value of your trade. Again easier said than done.
3. Get at least three change-over quotes e.mailed to you.
4. Never ever negotiate on the forecourt, the balance of power is with the salesman in this situation.

5. Decide what you are prepared to pay that's a realistic figure for the change-over.
6. Give the option for the business to the dealer that quoted the lowest change-over first. Do this by e.mail and let them know that if they don't accept those terms you'll give other dealers the option of the business.
If the lowest change-over quote ends up not accepting your terms, give them a couple of days to come to terms with the fact that they're not going to make their normal margin, email your terms to all other dealers for whom you got a quoted change-over and let them all know the first to accept will earn your business.

Provided you've been commercially realistic this process is almost certain to get you a very sharply priced new vehicle.

Have fun, treat it like a game and if some salesmen get pushy let them know you're in charge in no uncertain terms. Salesmen that try and emotionally blackmail you with lines for example like....look mate I've spent several hours with you test driving a range of vehicles and quoting you're trade-in don't I deserve the business...or words to that effect, simply thank them for doing their job and reply if you're the most competitive you'll get the business.

Deal with enough salesmen and you need too to ensure you're getting the best deal, and you'll always hear a fair bit of B.S. simply put, that's par for the course and part of the "amusement" that comes with the process.

[The Mighty Red]

I went into a Toyota dealership to look at a new ute , the salesman took me straight to the finance officer instead of straight to look at a ute , I couldnt believe it! .......... like some have said, instead of being a pleasant enjoyable experience it can be a totally uncomfortable stressfull time , good luck

[brismike]

What also gets me is when you have actually come to terms and agreed and are ready to sign the deal there is even more BS to come. You will be taken over to another person who will try to sign you up for "Paint Treatments", "Window Tinting", "Extended Warranties", "Fabric Treatments" & "Insurance Provider of their choice", etc etc etc.

All of these extra's are usually twice the price of what you can get on the aftermarket so are just a basic ripoff. You just have to learn to say "Thanks but No Thanks" with a smile of course ..

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by Rodge

This is how I do it and i've bought quite a few new cars.

1. Decide what you want to buy. Sounds easier than it is sometimes but the golden rule is to test drive as many vehilces as are genuinely in the frame and not bother with those that arn't.
2. Find out the true value of your trade. Again easier said than done.
3. Get at least three change-over quotes e.mailed to you.
4. Never ever negotiate on the forecourt, the balance of power is with the salesman in this situation.

5. Decide what you are prepared to pay that's a realistic figure for the change-over.
6. Give the option for the business to the dealer that quoted the lowest change-over first. Do this by e.mail and let them know that if they don't accept those terms you'll give other dealers the option of the business.
If the lowest change-over quote ends up not accepting your terms, give them a couple of days to come to terms with the fact that they're not going to make their normal margin, email your terms to all other dealers for whom you got a quoted change-over and let them all know the first to accept will earn your business.

Provided you've been commercially realistic this process is almost certain to get you a very sharply priced new vehicle.

Have fun, treat it like a game and if some salesmen get pushy let them know you're in charge in no uncertain terms. Salesmen that try and emotionally blackmail you with lines for example like....look mate I've spent several hours with you test driving a range of vehicles and quoting you're trade-in don't I deserve the business...or words to that effect, simply thank them for doing their job and reply if you're the most competitive you'll get the business.

Deal with enough salesmen and you need too to ensure you're getting the best deal, and you'll always hear a fair bit of B.S. simply put, that's par for the course and part of the "amusement" that comes with the process.

I like this approach. Well said. The hardest part for some people who are in a position to buy is removing or at least hiding emotion from the sale. Salespersons smell this from a mile away and play on it. They can read the person within the first 30 seconds and adapt accordingly.

If you can treat this like a business deal, let them know you are serious about purchasing and not willing to muck about. Usually they get straight to the point, otherwise the BS usually gets spread thicker and more mind games get thrown in.

This is only what I have experienced.

[EB#]

Originally Posted by stang65

....To me this is a pointless thread more about not about you getting a car for the price you want to pay.....

That is a bit presumptuous.....
I have actually prefaced each discussion with the dealers that I am more
interested in customer service rather than the bottom line price. My main
issue is with the ridiculous circus act that precedes any mention
of prices and the pressure to do the deal on the day.

I don't need the deal of the century...... I am prepared to pay a fair and
reasonable price, preferably in my region to benefit my local economy.

Originally Posted by 5150gk

......a broker maybe the way to go? ............

Maybe you're right. I have a good mate who would be perfect for the job !!
Something to be considered.

Originally Posted by CODSASR

as a car salesman its not the best feeling when a customer is going to 4 or 5 other dealers and you have the boss on your back about that deal....

I can understand the position of the salesmen also... Times are tough and
they are likely earning a dollar on commission. Nevertheless, I need to
get to a few yards, as my local dealer has only one standard ute on the lot
and I'm interested in the T.

Anyway....
Thanks everybody for the comments and tips.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by CODSASR

I work at a Kia dealer in central vic and we have sold a few brand new fg utes among other newys from other brands for a better price then the brands dealers where offering.

how the heck do you do that?

[stang65]

But what is fair to you may not be fair to the seller and thats where the games begin.Like any business transaction there will always be wheeling and dealing and it is to be expected. As i said this isn`t at you personally, but everybody wants bang for buck or to be able to say they walked out with a massive discount.

[EB#]

I get where you're coming from Stang...

It's becoming clear to me that wheeling and dealing is not really in my
repertoire..... the salesmen probably see that a mile off !!

[b2tf]

I think the number one rule is never let anybody pressure you into buying - if they do just walk away. With Holden and Ford products especially it is very rare that you would find a car at a dealer that is not available at another one - obviously different if it's a used one.

When I bought my FG i did it all from my desk at work - not once did I set foot in a car yard other than that a) grab a brochure and b) pick the car up when I bought it. I did a lot of phone quotes and if they pushed me I just simply said 'just doing the rounds mate, give me your best price and I will get back to you'. I was lucky in that one dealer was so far in front of the others it didn't matter.

Know what you want - write it down including options and just play them all, and if you do it over the phone you have the anonymity to haggle as much as you like and simply hang up.

[music189]

I bought mine over the phone
test drove the car I wanted to make sure it was the"one"
Then rang around the Ford dealers for the best price and said I was in the market right now if the price is right, ended up with almost fleet price $8000 lower than RRP at the time
When they got back to me with the lowest price then asked for some freebies to make me come to them
I always asked for driveaway price even paid the deposit with Visa over the phone

[RAPID_BA]

A new car is very different from a used car as condition is not a consideration, price is the only point of differentiation.

Go and see salesman late in the month when the heat is on to hit sales and they need that last sale or two to get them home. They will chase after you to get the sale, like previously posted, email dealers your terms, then turn up and even bring your own pen. Tell them if they accept, your in and if they don't you will wait for the other dealers to call you.

Call the other dealers on the spot if they reject your terms. You gotta squeeze them.

As condition is same you don't care which dealer or salesman does the deal, its about price, let them know after they have taken you for drives and wasted a few hours demonstrating the car.

[Rodge]

And don't get "tricked" by the pretty after sales girl conning you into buying vastly over-rated and over-priced window tinting, fabric and paint protection, to protect your "investment" Some guys including me have a lot of trouble saying "No" to a pretty girl, it almost always leads to a lot of trouble, sorry I digress and wasn't talking about the car sales process anymore

[blueoval]

Does some of these tactics work with other brands like VW, Audi, BMW etc? As far as I was aware, the tactics stated only really worked with Fords and Holdens but I could be wrong.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by blueoval

Does some of these tactics work with other brands like VW, Audi, BMW etc? As far as I was aware, the tactics stated only really worked with Fords and Holdens but I could be wrong.

No there's very special tactics required for dealing with European brands and getting a fair deal. The only way I know how is to buy direct from the U.K. as all the local distributors are basically beding us right over and not even bothering to use any lubricant. Australasian Euro prices represent blatant price gouging and manipulation and you are really wasting your time negotiating with the delaers as the problem is deeply rooted in extortionant distributor margins.

With the blatent price extortion there is an emerging trend towards parallel importing emerging in the N.Z. market, case in point a brand new XJ Jaguar for $N.Z. 119K = $A96K of course your local Jaguar dealer will try and spin you a whole pile of B.S. about how its not covered by the international Jaguar warranty, they won't service it and any other bulls#it they can think of to justify their and the distributors grossly bloated and inflated margins.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used...-399970067.htm

As you can see, said with a bit of emotion, once bitten twice shy and all that....

[fangq]

Originally Posted by anto

I know your pain mate. Best way to approach it is go in theer and up front tell them youre looking for the best possible deal and that youre talking to all the dealers and also...importantly, IM NOT SIGNING ANYTHING TODAY !!

I had the same frustrations buying the FG but found a good dealer whos was casual and let me take control, bascily telling me "what do you want to pay".

hang in there, theres good deals to be had

I use car brokers to find the best deal.
Steve

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by Rodge

No there's very special tactics required for dealing with European brands and getting a fair deal. The only way I know how is to buy direct from the U.K. as all the local distributors are basically beding us right over and not even bothering to use any lubricant. Australasian Euro prices represent blatant price gouging and manipulation and you are really wasting your time negotiating with the delaers as the problem is deeply rooted in extortionant distributor margins.

With the blatent price extortion there is an emerging trend towards parallel importing emerging in the N.Z. market, case in point a brand new XJ Jaguar for $N.Z. 119K = $A96K of course your local Jaguar dealer will try and spin you a whole pile of B.S. about how its not covered by the international Jaguar warranty, they won't service it and any other bulls#it they can think of to justify their and the distributors grossly bloated and inflated margins.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used...-399970067.htm

As you can see, said with a bit of emotion, once bitten twice shy and all that....

Good lord. I just compared that Jag you linked up with what a new one is worth in Australia and you wont get one here for less than 200k. Almost makes me want to buy the NZ one, ship it over, register it etc and sell it for a profit.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Rodge

And don't get "tricked" by the pretty after sales girl conning you into buying vastly over-rated and over-priced window tinting, fabric and paint protection, to protect your "investment" Some guys including me have a lot of trouble saying "No" to a pretty girl, it almost always leads to a lot of trouble, sorry I digress and wasn't talking about the car sales process anymore

Hence why said pretty girl has that very job.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by blueoval

Good lord. I just compared that Jag you linked up with what a new one is worth in Australia and you wont get one here for less than 200k. Almost makes me want to buy the NZ one, ship it over, register it etc and sell it for a profit.

You could but please don't...if they can't fix my supercharged GT-P properly I'll probably buy that one myself. Seriously though, if they can parallel import that one at that price they can do as many as there are demand for.
This is but one example of the extremly inflated margins Euro distributors are now making.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by Rodge

You could but please don't...if they can't fix my supercharged GT-P properly I'll probably buy that one myself. Seriously though, if they can parallel import that one at that price they can do as many as there are demand for.
This is but one example of the extremly inflated margins Euro distributors are now making.

haha. I wouldnt do that to ya Rodge. You go for it mate.

That being said, what would the import taxes be on something like that? Does the luxury car tax apply to that too? I also heard Diesel cars under 120k are exempt from LCT, is this the case with the Jag?

[rabbit4ever]

Hey EB, i have pm'd you.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by blueoval

haha. I wouldnt do that to ya Rodge. You go for it mate.

That being said, what would the import taxes be on something like that? Does the luxury car tax apply to that too? I also heard Diesel cars under 120k are exempt from LCT, is this the case with the Jag?

Its an interesting academic excercise. Suppose they could be haggled down to N.Z $110,000 which would appear to be a reasonable presumption based on an asking price of $119K. That price includes 15% N.Z. GST which will be zero rated for export, (I know this is the case I've been an accountant in N.Z. for longer than I care to remember), so that brings the exported price down to $N.Z.95,652, (110,000 x 20/23). Baased on current a current exchange rate of 80 cents A = $1 N.Z = $A76,521.

Fuel consumption is under 7.0 litres per 100 km's so if my memory serves me correctly that gets a special dispensation from Aust LCT and under CER between N.Z. and Aust there may not be any duty, or this may depend upon the coutry of original origin, I'm not sure on that one.

The really scary thing is that this is but one example of the gross excess readily apparent in local and Australian official Euro pricing, you name it, Mercedes-benz, Audi, BMW, Jaguar, they're all "at it".

I priced up a brand new 2011 Mercedes-benz S320 cdi the other day discounted in a U.K. dealership to just on 50,000 pounds from its retail of just over 66,000 pounds, it had exactly 10 miles on the clock. I could land it here all up for about $115,000 and Mercedes-benz N.Z. want $207,000 for exactly the same car, even worse I think Mercedes-benz Australia want about the same in Australian dollars notwithstanding the significantly stronger Australian dollar !!!

Its long overdue that people rebel against the theiving Euro distributors.

Sorry guys, end of rant , didn't mean to hijack the thread, as you were.