Manuals-Thing of the past? - Page 3

olds · 16-09-2011, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

Huh? they are manual.

Define manual I think they are sequential

PHANTMXR6 · 16-09-2011, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesR

do you know how a torque converter works?
they have a mechanical lock-up.

i have autos, prefer autos, i dont feel any more of a better driver when driving a manual.

Sure do champ. They don't have any mechanical lockup at all.

They generally have a hydraulic operated lockup clutch via electric solenoid.

No mechanical lock at all.

davenl5l · 16-09-2011, 08:52 PM

you are right not hard but a surprising amount of people cant drive one

**DJM83** · 16-09-2011, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHANTMXR6

Sure do champ. They don't have any mechanical lockup at all.

They generally have a hydraulic operated lockup clutch via electric solenoid.

No mechanical lock at all.

Meh theres no clutch so same thing really, its not a manual.

FGII-XR6 · 16-09-2011, 09:15 PM

you have really opened a can of worms here

todays autos are a far cry from the "sluh boxes" of days gone by and they can actually give better times on a drag strip . todays autos are inteligent computer controled and smooth but some people like changing gears and if doing track driving it can be better to have the additional control that you get from a manual ( but with tiptronic this advantage is also reduced)
at the end of the day for the average driver it is a matter of preference and there will always be room for a manual as long as we have internal combustion engines

**aussiblue** · 16-09-2011, 10:01 PM

More common in the bush where a manual in theory will get better economy in open road cruisng but a pain in bumper to bumper traffic especially with larger cars with heavier clutches so its understandable they are more popular in the city. The aging population (together with the continuing urbanisation of australia) will probably also increase the popularity of the auto trans.

Big Bird 17 · 16-09-2011, 10:16 PM

I don't care whether you drive an auto or a manual,thats your choice.I prefer my GT in manual because i love the sound of the Boss when i give it a rev to change back thru the gears.My ute is a manual as well but it does'nt give me the same thrill because it does'nt have the same sound as the Boss.

AMGC63 · 16-09-2011, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olds

Define manual I think they are sequential

Manual means Clutch and direct locked solid coupling, auto means torque convertor/ fluid/viscous coupling.
It means nothing how they shift or change the gears... its the rigid v viscous coupling to the gearbox that gives the difference in car control and throttle balance.

Auto is better for everyday driving, manual is better for motorsport.

**russellw** · 16-09-2011, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

Manual means Clutch and direct locked solid coupling, auto means torque convertor/ fluid/viscous coupling.
It means nothing how they shift or change the gears... its the rigid v viscous coupling to the gearbox that gives the difference in car control and throttle balance.

Not technically correct either but we'll leave the semantics out of it.

Ignoring pre-selectors, clutchless manuals; semi-autos, CVT's and a whole range of other technologies that have been used to transfer drive from the engine to the driven wheels; we can fairly simply define a manual gearbox as:

"a transmission whose gear ratios are selectable by locking selected gear pairs to the output shaft in the transmission" and thus the lines between the traditional manual transmission and the offerings on hand now have become somewhat blurred.

What is clear are some simple facts.

Manual transmissions of the foot operated clutch and gear selector lever type made up the majority of vehicle sales in Australia throughout the 1960's for fairly simple reasons.

1. We had low levels of traffic congestion even in our larger cities
2. The cost penalty for an automatic transmission was prohibitive (often as much as a 20% premium)
3. The 2 and 3 speed autos of the day cost substantially in both power output and fuel consumption - again often by 20%

As a result of all of the above they were hardly a clever choice and they were typically only popular in the LWB cars.

The early part of the 70's didn't see much of a change but the latter part saw the real start of the manual transmission decline from favour. They still made up more than half the sales nationally but in the capital cities they were diminishing in number rapidly. Reasons:

1. Traffic density in the major cities was becoming an increasing issue
2. Auto transmissions were improving to the point where they were an acceptable (if still somewhat expensive in Australian cars) option
3. The Japanese had changed the Australian car buying landscape forever with low cost, well equipped vehicles that included viable (read low cost) 3/4 speed autos

This trend has continued throughout the intervening years, helped, in part, by greatly improved automatic and semi-automatic transmission options but also by increasing traffic densities; the absence (during the last decade) of any cost penalty for choosing an auto; greatly improved fuel economy from auto transmissions and no real impact on power output.

Last figures I saw (a few years old now) showed that something like 95% of the Commodore/Falcon fleet were purchased with auto transmissions and I see little reason to doubt that.

The last bastion of the manual transmission has been the light car class where the penalty (financial and performance) of an auto has been prohibitive but I suspect the recent improvements in technology at that end of the market are making even that an invalid excuse.

Cheers
Russ

Geez Louise · 16-09-2011, 11:11 PM

95% of the purchases were Automatic? That is a heck of a lot if that is the case!

It would stand to reason then, that fewer manual cars would be produced if auto's are outselling them by that much. True?

And if that is the case, then surely, it would also stand to reason, that manual transmissions are on the decline, which means they are in fact, as the thread title suggested, going to be a thing of the past perhaps within the next 20yrs or so..?

kaniSS · 16-09-2011, 11:23 PM

Thank god I got a Manual. I love it too bits, even if people think the ZF is better, deep inside I know manual is the best to drive and I wouldn't change that one bit.

MITCHAY · 16-09-2011, 11:40 PM

I remember when I was looking for my car that a big reason why I didn't buy a Falcon or Commodore was because finding a manual one was rather hard.

I ended up buying a WRX and well pretty much all of them are manual! If given a choice I will always pick a manual over an auto

Ryan · 17-09-2011, 12:05 AM

When I look back now I'm happy I chose to learn in a manual. I was nearly going to learn in an auto, but I know I would've regretted it.

Autos still have their place, but I think (unless otherwise) the majority of my cars will be manuals. In saying I have come across people before who have said they don't know how to drive a manual and when I ask why most can't give a straight answer.

It's not very hard. Like anything it just takes practice. I learned in a rusty Kingswood and XY ute on Saturday afternoon's at my grandparents' farm and the day I got my Ls I was driving in my Cortina at night nonetheless on a country road and nearly put it into a fence, because I looked down while changing gears. I done the hard yards with my old man teaching me and now that I look back (8 years now) it's all been worth it.

People who only drive autos aren't terrible drivers though. That's a ridiculous thing to say. Anyone who can gain a driver's licence has a reasonable amount of compentancy. I just find driving a manual that I have more control. Admittedly I haven't driven too many later model cars with automatics, but for older cars I can never quite get used to some autos that tend to have a mind of their own.

BHDOGS · 17-09-2011, 12:19 AM

Id say there dieing a slow death ive only ever driven autos i cant drive a manual so i guess im not a real man but i do lift weights work in security and wear a singlet but still im not a real man coz i drive autos so i guess ill grow long hair start drinking lattes and complaining how ford doesnt have a wagon like all the other women.

robbo/region15 · 17-09-2011, 12:36 AM

Auto- does it for you,just brake n indicate..
Manual-your driving,clutch hates your guts.........dont roll backward,or hit reverse...........

Motorbike- kicking everyones ***,woops look @speedo,what gear am i in......???

This thread is posted as Humour,cmon people,dont take it seriously,just a simple whats everyones thoughts on the dissapearing Manual Shift,all good eh.

matty88 · 17-09-2011, 03:12 AM

I love manual cars, it seems to keep me more alert. Plus it's fun as hell to drive

R1XSTA · 17-09-2011, 08:08 AM

I prefer manual myself, I prefer being able to dictate to the car what gear I should be in. My reason for choosing a manual car is simple.

As stated above most countries have a very low % of auto cars. If the opportunity ever arises where I can travel the world. I want to know I can get around in any car I'm given, auto/manual/lhd.

Interesting point to put across. I just ordered a 2011 Holden Cruze, comes factory with a 6spd manual. To get the automatic is an extra $2000. As previously stated by someone, my insurance will be $250 cheaper because it's a manual and less likely to be stolen.

**Luke Plaizier** · 17-09-2011, 08:38 AM

Yeah, I reckon manuals are done for.

I either do all the work on my car without reading first, of just look up advice on the internet. I don't tend to read the Manual at all.

Lukeyson

Franco Cozzo · 17-09-2011, 09:59 AM

Try find a manual Falcon, I was looking in 2009 for one all over the place for my first car, XR6s in manual where priced a good $5-$6000 more than the auto ones at the time.

Late last year I tried to buy a new manual FG Falcon ute, the base model, I found one in a dealership, and they wanted $35,000 for it. I offered $27,500 and they told me to GTFO. Another dealership offered me a 6sp auto one for $26K drive away, but I didn't want auto.

I went to a Holden dealership but they said Omega ute doesn't come in manual, only SV6 and it was too expensive.

So I went with another small car and got a TDCI Focus in manual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Yeah, I reckon manuals are done for.

I either do all the work on my car without reading first, of just look up advice on the internet. I don't tend to read the Manual at all.

Lukeyson

On that topic, who remembers buying video games in the 90s? They had easily 200 page manuals which detailed everything about the game, even had play tips etc and come in big boxes, now its just some 4 page piece of crap, with the controls, and maybe a PDF.

PHANTMXR6 · 17-09-2011, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

Meh theres no clutch so same thing really, its not a manual.

Not sure what you're referring to, but I was just answering the question posted by JamesR.

**DJR-351** · 17-09-2011, 11:33 AM

I prefer a manual gearbox because i like to change gears...

No technical reason, no what's better or more popular, in fact no other reason than that’s what i like...

In fact that's how i live my life, I do what suit’s me, and snub my nose at those that try and impose their particular preferences on me by claiming their way is better....those types are just oxygen thieves in my book and are not worth my time...

**DJM83** · 17-09-2011, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHANTMXR6

Not sure what you're referring to, but I was just answering the question posted by JamesR.

Nothing i was agreeing with your post ie you discussing the points of an auto. I just said no clutch its not a manual no matter how good the auto is.

XR6Runner · 17-09-2011, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJR-351

I prefer a manual gearbox because i like to change gears...

No technical reason, no what's better or more popular, in fact no other reason than that’s what i like...

In fact that's how i live my life, I do what suit’s me, and snub my nose at those that try and impose their particular preferences on me by claiming their way is better....those types are just oxygen thieves in my book and are not worth my time...

You summed it up perfect!

**DJM83** · 17-09-2011, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJR-351

I prefer a manual gearbox because i like to change gears...

No technical reason, no what's better or more popular, in fact no other reason than that’s what i like...

In fact that's how i live my life, I do what suit’s me, and snub my nose at those that try and impose their particular preferences on me by claiming their way is better....those types are just oxygen thieves in my book and are not worth my time...

If we had the rep system still thats a +1, top post

FGII-XR6 · 17-09-2011, 07:55 PM

I'll put you in my 6 speed manual bus for a while and see if you feel the same

, I'm glad to be in an auto when I finish work

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJR-351

I prefer a manual gearbox because i like to change gears...

No technical reason, no what's better or more popular, in fact no other reason than that’s what i like...

In fact that's how i live my life, I do what suit’s me, and snub my nose at those that try and impose their particular preferences on me by claiming their way is better....those types are just oxygen thieves in my book and are not worth my time...

R1XSTA · 17-09-2011, 08:02 PM

I used to drive trucks daily, ranging from a 5 spd transmission to a 12 spd eaton. Thankfully I don't do that work anymore, but every day after driving them getting into the auto was like heaven

buickman · 17-09-2011, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R1XSTA

I used to drive trucks daily, ranging from a 5 spd transmission to a 12 spd eaton. Thankfully I don't do that work anymore, but every day after driving them getting into the auto was like heaven

I think a lot of trucks nowdays have auto's as well as cars. I hired a Isuzu F series a month ago and was suprised it had a auto trans as it had been years since I drove the Mec's 1418 and Inter 1830 which were manuals.

My youngest got a auto licence because no manual cars in the family for him to practise on.

FalconXV · 17-09-2011, 11:17 PM

I reckon it's a shame you can't get a manual XT.

**DJR-351** · 18-09-2011, 06:12 AM

Sounds like a few here need to hit the gym, work on that upper body strength rather than tap tap tap on a keyboard......

**FTE217** · 18-09-2011, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Sounds like a few here need to hit the gym, work on that upper body strength rather than tap tap tap on a keyboard......

I agree - some petty comments intended to offend from both sides - get over it. Times are a changing it doesn't mean you have to stick your chest out saying mine is better than yours - phhht school yard BS.....for christ sake 99.9% of us drive on general suburban roads...