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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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06-06-2012, 04:12 PM | #61 | ||
Moff-fan
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 314
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Whilst I agree that foreign manufacturers have a massive advantage over Aussie companies at the moment, a tax like this is a bit of a knee jerk reaction and could bring some undesired consequences that other people have brought up in this thread (ie people working for retailers/importers losing their job and/or these companies using methods to "dodge" the tax). Definitely think the Gov't could organise this better to not only benefit local manufacturers, but possibly also aid local job creation. But a simple import duty is easier to administer, and as such they choose that way out. Again...
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06-06-2012, 04:15 PM | #62 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 665
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Its ok, the Chinese Government will just switch to the next product/industry they can dump here and screw up others around the world.
Catch 22, we are addicted to its cheap products, but most of us hate the damage it does to workers and our local industries. Good on ROH taking them on |
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06-06-2012, 05:17 PM | #63 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Quote:
Its the aftermarket wheels being dumped onto the market that are the issue. And Ford and Holden's wheels have to be thouroughly tested before they fit them to cars. Its part of their ADR compliance, the wheels have to be impact tested etc. |
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06-06-2012, 05:50 PM | #64 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NSW
Posts: 1,424
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yeah arent CSA wheels supposed to be australian and have ADR compliance? Some of there wheels buckle within a 100m distance of a pothole
id rather trust foreign JWL/VIA certification, same compliance as the factory wheels on my wifes late model liberty |
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06-06-2012, 07:06 PM | #65 | |||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,242
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06-06-2012, 08:41 PM | #66 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,819
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Quote:
Losses on a per unit basis You are right Holden and Ford would be subject to the same. But we would need to build a car for a price, say X and then sell it for a lower price say Y For it to be dumping you would need to satisfy X>Y If you stripped out the government assistance in Japan, the wheel manufacturers have been found to be selling each wheel at less than what it costs them to produce it |
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06-06-2012, 08:43 PM | #67 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,819
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Quote:
It is only similar in Aust if it can be proved that after accounting for assistance the cars are sold below the cost of producing them (once again on a per unit basis naturally) Not the case |
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07-06-2012, 01:31 AM | #68 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Perth WA
Posts: 1,204
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Understood shonky, what I meant in my second sentence was the Aussie govt. giving local manufacturers handouts and those manufacturers sell O/S in isolation. Didn't mean to infer it was dumping.
I'm not sure your interpretation of dumping is entirely accurate though mate, although it is valid :-) The WTO has a definition for it as well as when a country can take action against it. Basically it revolves around selling a product in another country for less than its sold in its home country but rather than me repeating it, here's a good enough explanation - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy) |
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07-06-2012, 06:53 AM | #69 | ||
Wirlankarra yanama
Join Date: May 2006
Location: God's Country
Posts: 2,103
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I thought ROH were controlled/owned by Harley Davidson (USA). If I'm wrong let me know, but HD did take a controlling interest in a well known Australian wheel manufacturer in 2003-2004.
Could it be that the Australian consumer is being taxed because we're buying cheap Chinese wheels so that a USA company can maintain profitability - strange times we live in ... |
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07-06-2012, 08:08 AM | #70 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,819
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Kieron, thanks for reading about it.
Yes, dumping is also when different pricing structures are used in the country of export to the xountry of origin. For this thread i was trying to stick to the breach that has occurred, being exports sold below their cost if production (adter accounting for assistance) |
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07-06-2012, 07:32 PM | #71 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Victoria
Posts: 907
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Quote:
ADECISION by the US board of Harley-Davidson to close its Adelaidewheel-manufacturing plant with the loss of 212 jobs three weeks beforeChristmas has been slammed as heartless by unions. TheUS-based company yesterday announced it would transfer its Australianoperations to China. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1226217645580 ROH manufacture in The Phillipines... The ROH Philippines plants have utilised ROH's Australian-based technology, to enable the company to play a key role in the development of the local vehicle assembly industry. ROH Philippines manufacture a wide range of alloy and steel wheels for the local passenger cars, pick up trucks, utility vehicles and Jeepneys (Jeepneys are the Philippines' public transport vehicles). ROH Philippines has successfully won original equipment contracts from the world's biggest carmakers including Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Kia, Suzuki and Daihatsu. |
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08-06-2012, 03:00 PM | #72 | ||
SSith Lord
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,623
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So... a few years ago ROH lost a local OE deal to a certain Singapore-based, publicly listed manufacturer with facilities in China, Taiwan and Malaysia. Mind you, this manufacturer is world's largest manufacturer of aftermarket alloy wheels, involved with some top end brands (OZ Racing, Enkei), including involvement in F1. So we're not talking cheap Chinese crap. Following that, ROH starts crying poor, complaining to the government and sets this whole thing in motion.
Fast forward to 2012. The gov't slaps this manufacturer (and other big players) with an 87% duty on all wheels out of China. Some copped smaller duties but all the big player get hit hard. Results of said action: Chairman of the corporation in question orders that all Chinese shipments on the water be diverted to his Malaysian facility (thus not paying any duty), and cancels all orders for Australian aluminium. In the meantime, the Chinese moulds have already been shipped to Malaysia and are being set up. What exactly have ROH achieved with this? I have already heard from multiple sources that ROH reps have been told to get the **** out of people's tyre shops. ROH will be gone within a few years becuase they've just lost all support from within the industry by screwing everyone but 20% of it over. In turn, this WILL decrease supply in the short to medium turn, and increase prices of wheels. Probably tyres too because shops will need to make up the lost revenue somehow. How is this going I am currently setting up a tyre shop and this has screwed me over big time. Is all this worth saving 140 jobs? I hardly think so! |
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08-06-2012, 03:57 PM | #73 | |||
SSith Lord
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,623
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Quote:
How is this going to affect me as an Australian? I am currently setting up a tyre shop and this has screwed me over big time. Supply has just dropped right off and prices are going up as we speak. Is all this worth saving 140 jobs? I hardly think so! And the moment an ROH rep walks into my shop, he'll be told to get the **** out. |
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08-06-2012, 04:38 PM | #74 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 690
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I totally agree with you Nick, I don't work in the manufacturing industry or have any relevance to shops and all that ... but as a person that has some level of financial education and I see that this is the dumbest move I have seen our beloved GovCo pulling of in a while ...
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08-06-2012, 04:50 PM | #75 | |||
Donating Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Morayfield
Posts: 28,309
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Quote:
The whole idea of anticompetitive behaviour is to eliminate the competition so that when they are out of business you can charge more. We have this locally with the large supermarkets trying the same thing with smaller grocers. Take a loss now, drive them out of business, profit.....
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08-06-2012, 04:55 PM | #76 | ||
VFII SS UTE
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 6,353
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local american businesses have gone broke due to wallmart!
wallmart accouts for 10% GDP of the entire USA from china's cheap stuff! think about it..
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08-06-2012, 11:08 PM | #77 | ||
460 - cubes torque
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Oz
Posts: 134
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If everybody chose to import stuff from Chinaland because it is cheaper and better for our economy to import rather than manufacture, where will the money come from to pay for it (not just the peeps working in the mining industry)?
Also need to consider the $$ flow (and the value of) through the economy and population before we send it back overseas. |
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08-06-2012, 11:16 PM | #78 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,819
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tuff gig turbo nick, sorry to hear you are being affecting in the transition
I can appreciate that there are some stakeholders who will hurt short term |
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09-06-2012, 08:38 AM | #79 | |||
SSith Lord
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,623
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Quote:
ROH sales dropped off because their styles are old, they've been having finish issues for years now, and to quote one OE manufacturer who dumped them "it's not the prices, it's the styles, the quality, the service." Your view is an extremely short-sighted one and clearly you're not seeing the greater implications of this move. And don't be surprised if there is some sort of a backlash from the Chinese gov't. |
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10-06-2012, 03:03 AM | #80 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,819
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Reading on the WTO website is probably the best place if someone wants a quick overview of dumping and it's implications
It also had probably the best concise definition I have seen: Dumping occurs when goods are exported at a price less than their normal value, generally meaning they are exported for less than they are sold in the domestic market or third-country markets, or at less than production cost |
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10-06-2012, 09:53 AM | #81 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 775
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Quote:
Australian Customs plays a very straight bat with dumping investigations, which typically take way too long to investigate & implement penalties (in this case investigations started in some form in 2004, with penalties only applying in 2012). These cases are complicated but the basic test of exporting below domestic market prices, to cause injury to home market product is rapidly proven in the EU and USA, where interim dumping duties are decides & implemented quickly (90 days) . Basically these companies (& possibly the Chinese Govt) have set out to break International & Australian Law, have been caught and are paying the price. It's a shame its taken so long and that other manufacturers & their workers have suffered.
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10-06-2012, 11:25 AM | #82 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,242
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Quote:
So for instance if the US was able to buy a G8 for the equivalent of $30,000 and australians bought the same car for $40,000, or if US got a carpice for alot less than we get it in australia, or if in the future the US was able to buy a VF for alot less than we get in australia, then that would be classified as dumping?? If the car manufacturer was doing this with the support of Australian taxpayer dollars, wouldnt the Australian Government and taxpayers also be guilty?? |
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10-06-2012, 08:30 PM | #83 | |||
Donating Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Morayfield
Posts: 28,309
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Quote:
My view isn't short sighted. I am telling you what will happen in the long term when all the competition is gone. That you are trying to set up a business that is modelled on the status quo of cheap (dumped) Chinese goods shows that you are too close to it to be objective. If you are worried about the Chinese "backlash" you should really read about about the Chinese hypocrisy on a whole range of issues. Have a read about the Huawei NBN kerfuffle for a bit of a taste.
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10-06-2012, 09:46 PM | #84 | ||
Mustang GT mmmmmm......
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mornington Peninsula
Posts: 1,459
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See the EU and India are investigating dumping of alloy wheels In their regions as well.
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I have become a Mustanger. |
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11-06-2012, 12:31 AM | #85 | |||
SSith Lord
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,623
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11-06-2012, 09:06 AM | #86 | |||
VFII SS UTE
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 6,353
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Quote:
dumping is when holden flood the US with cars below cost. say $12,000 aud
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I don't often hear the sound of a screaming LSX. But when I do, So do the neighbours.. GO SOUTHS
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11-06-2012, 02:42 PM | #87 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: VN Capital
Posts: 1,584
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China knows where it will be positioned in the next 50 years. China plans years and years in advance.
Don't worry if our manufacturing shuts down.. China has been buying up plenty of farms here we can work on.
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25-06-2012, 07:18 AM | #88 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,572
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I've been looking for wheels for my landaus for ages now. Would prefer to buy Oz made and owned. Hard to find ones I like though and hard to tell who is still doing what.
I have these makes listed as Aussie and still in business, any more? Dragway http://www.dragway.com.au Performance wheels http://www.performancewheels.com.au Roh http://www.roh.com.au/ |
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