Vfacts november 2021

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by smoo

Did the majority of members who previously took an interest in new car sales own a Futura?
Is the Futura the reason why they joined the forum?
Is the Futura the reason why Ford gained a loyal and enthusiastic following back when they were making cars in Aus?
Did Subaru gain a cult following in the 1990s because of the base spec auto 1.5 litre Imprezza on 14" wheels?
I think the point went over your head.

You didn't actually make a point for it to go over anybody's head...

don't assume everybody misses Falcon as much as you do. if you recall people stopped buying them, and I don't mean people buying 2nd hand cars.

don't miss that point.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

You didn't actually make a point for it to go over anybody's head...

don't assume everybody misses Falcon as much as you do. if you recall people stopped buying them, and I don't mean people buying 2nd hand cars.

don't miss that point.

No, you're assuming I'm missing the Falcon because I'm making a simple observation on how members have viewed or shy'd away from the brand from then to now.

The post I originally quoted contained some conspiracy on how forum members are secretly hoping for Fords demise.
I offered an alternative and more realistic viewpoint, and if you scroll back ten years or more when the coon was still going, Vfact threads (and the forum in general) had significantly more activity than what it does now.
End of the day Pumas and Enduras etc don't resonate with forum members the same way the Falcon does/did, hence why no ****s are given for new car sales.

Ironically the only time new car sales or registration thread receives any decent activity is when the Chinese junk is centre of attention.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

So what youre suggesting is that their recent 6k monthly sales figure that corresponds with recent historical figures is actually well down and miraculously they're suddenly a 8k per month mover, yeah, nah.

I didn't say anything about 8000 a month but thank you. All I was commenting on the fact that there is a long order bank for some models, in particular Escape (which we all know about), Mustang and Everest. Could they catch those orders up quickly? I don't know.


Mustang sales are pumped with the lack of cheap performance offerings now out there and they are awesome bang for buck when you look at the price of used FPVS and HSVs. Everest is having a field day because Toyota pumped their price and many people are not willing wait the long wait times. Escape is just Escape, no shipments for nearly a year and there are people who want them and who have qued up for them.



New Ranger will easily break into 5,000 + sales a month if they can actually get enough supply. I also expect Everest to head towards 1250 - 1500 +. So if you look at those alone 7000 a month wont be out of the question!

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

And what apart from perhaps Escape is Ford having supply issues of?
Ranger is on par with where it usually is, Mustang has been in decline before supply issues, new Focus never really fired, Fiesta is a niche product now, the only significant growth has been Everest and thats by 400 units over where it was traditionally.
Theres very little in the Ford camp to be effected by supply so its not a case of not affording them the same excuses.
You think Escape is a 1500 unit seller? Or Focus to compete with Corolla, i30 or Cerato suddenly if not for Covid.

Transit Van and Transit Custom....dealer wouldn't even take my order as they had no idea of a build slot...that's a combined 700-800 sales per month that doesn't occur and hasn't since the start of the year....so if you say times return to normal, add the two vans to a steady 1000/month Everests and Ranger staying where it is plus some more stock of Mustangs and say 500 Escapes (and the hybrid hasn't even been released but was expected back at the start of the year) and that does actually get you to about 8000...so you were right

[kevino]

The Chinese LDV G10 and larger DELIVER are selling up a storm.
If those buyers get a good run out of LDV Ford will lose them for good.
Cant get a transit or other euro get a Chinese takeaway.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Transit Van and Transit Custom....dealer wouldn't even take my order as they had no idea of a build slot...that's a combined 700-800 sales per month that doesn't occur and hasn't since the start of the year....so if you say times return to normal, add the two vans to a steady 1000/month Everests and Ranger staying where it is plus some more stock of Mustangs and say 500 Escapes (and the hybrid hasn't even been released but was expected back at the start of the year) and that does actually get you to about 8000...so you were right

I cant see Escape doing 500 a month anytime soon. I dont think they will get enough supply of them.



Dont forget Puma tho, theres 250 a month easily.



Fiesta and Focus are now niche products which will only see about 50 units a month typically of each. Really makes you wonder if they will continue on with them given the cost of stocking parts / service tech training etc.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Transit Van and Transit Custom....dealer wouldn't even take my order as they had no idea of a build slot...that's a combined 700-800 sales per month that doesn't occur and hasn't since the start of the year....so if you say times return to normal, add the two vans to a steady 1000/month Everests and Ranger staying where it is plus some more stock of Mustangs and say 500 Escapes (and the hybrid hasn't even been released but was expected back at the start of the year) and that does actually get you to about 8000...so you were right

Dealers haven't been taken orders on Escape or Mustangs either for this reason. People become very confused when you tell them they can't even order something.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

There was always a performance variant of the falcon, xr6, xr8, turbo f6, GT's turbo territory ect and you could get them in a manual (not sure if territory had manual option). You could watch them race around bathurst, come to the ford forums and check out all the mods people were doing to them, the good old days.

Now we have puma, escape and some dual cabs. I'm sure they rock some peoples boat but there not a replacement for what we used to have. And its not just ford as has been pointed out many times, most manufacturers are pumping out over complicated shopping trolleys.

Hence why the price of older performance cars is on the rise, enthusiasts realize its over, if you want a performance sedan better get in quick and put one in the shed.

yes I know there are other performance variants of Falcons, but the point that went over the other blokes head is that the general public only saw a Futrura - and its dull. so I find it Iconic that he calls the current offerings boring..
the public want overcomplicated shopping trolleys and the sales reflect that.


PS All cars are fetching higher prices atm not just older "performance cars"

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

yes I know there are other performance variants of Falcons, but the point that went over the other blokes head is that the general public only saw a Futrura - and its dull. so I find it Iconic that he calls the current offerings boring..
the public want overcomplicated shopping trolleys and the sales reflect that.


PS All cars are fetching higher prices atm not just older "performance cars"

Except no one was talking about the public (until you mentioned it with the irrelevant reference to a Futura). I was talking about forum members and the obvious lack of interest in the current line up.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Its not, its a sound business strategy but it hasnt put them in a stronger position if you look at the whole of year sales figures, they'll still finish where they would have its just the means to the end is different between how Ford have gone about it compared to others.

While that may be true, Ford and Toyota are probably the only two
carmakers to weather the past two years relatively unscathed……

A lot of brands suffered big losses because their customer base was hit
hardest financially as were their production due to covid and chip shortages.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Don’t forget Holden’s gone now, a lot of Holden’s customers are moving to Ford believe it or not especially in the Ranger / Mustang space.

Anyways Bent 8 you keep smacking on negatively as you do.
All I can say is watch this space….

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Agreed, Toyota has volume to burn to an extent and ford has a couple of high ticket segment leaders.
Again, a means to an end, Toyota will still finish the year top and Ford will be in the mid top 10 battle with Mitsubishi and Kia, just like last year.

Small victories Bent, many never thought that Ford would ever see 6,000 sales per month again,
that might seem like small beer to many here but it gives Ford Australia a voice to at least discuss
other products that may add sales as well as $$$.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Going by what we are hearing theres going to be a HUGE order book for new Ranger / Everest.



I just hope Ford can keep RRP reasonable as they don't want to price themselves out of the market, although price seems to be less of an issue these days.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Going by what we are hearing theres going to be a HUGE order book for new Ranger / Everest.



I just hope Ford can keep RRP reasonable as they don't want to price themselves out of the market, although price seems to be less of an issue these days.

Toyota's arrogance could eventually catch up with them. For years they have abused their loyal customers relying on their badge to sell often outdated cars. Heck, they were still flogging corolla off with a 4sp while all their rivals had long moved to 6sp. Hilux is still relatively agricultural and i see more and more businesses with rangers now that would have traditionally bought a Toyota.

People are gradually realising that a ute doesn't have to feel like a piece of 1960's farm equipment.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by prydey

Toyota's arrogance could eventually catch up with them. For years they have abused their loyal customers relying on their badge to sell often outdated cars. Heck, they were still flogging corolla off with a 4sp while all their rivals had long moved to 6sp. Hilux is still relatively agricultural and i see more and more businesses with rangers now that would have traditionally bought a Toyota.

People are gradually realising that a ute doesn't have to feel like a piece of 1960's farm equipment.

Funny part is the PX3 is already class leading. The next Gen will just blow everything else out of the water.



There are people literally cross shopping LC300's and Wildtrak V6's as we speak! 80k vs 110k (Base).

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

And Ford are the only brand to experience growth in this imaginary world.

What's imaginary about it, the numbers I referenced are based on historic sales of Transit and Transit Custom. My numbers for Escape (non-hybrid) go back to info I received back in December 2020 and into Feb 2021 so my number of 500 is based on a combo of Hybrid and and Petrol when unconstrained... even if that's 300/month

I didn't say Ford would be the only one to experience growth, I didn't mention any other brand, if the market grew by 10% that would get Ford close to 7000 just on the current performance anyway..
rather where Ford realistically should be in a "normal world" of unrestricted semi-conductors and less overseas effected covid manufacturing.

Why the bitterness every time vfacts comes around.?

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Funny part is the PX3 is already class leading. The next Gen will just blow everything else out of the water.

Yes, but how much VW does the next gen contain ?? Too much & it will be rubbish.

Dr Terry

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

Yes, but how much VW does the next gen contain ?? Too much & it will be rubbish.

Dr Terry

Very little….. if anything 😂

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

Yes, but how much VW does the next gen contain ?? Too much & it will be rubbish.

Dr Terry

Basically nothing. VW have had no input beyond having some designers based in broadmeadows to style the areas they have the ability to change ie headlights, grilles, wheels etc.

They have literally done next to nothing else.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Its funny, someone cries that Vfacts threads get no traffic these days

Not quite...

[ozrunner]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Going by what we are hearing theres going to be a HUGE order book for new Ranger / Everest.

Seems that way and going threw the roof for the top of the range Wildtrack TDV6 and even before price is known.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/2022-f...edium=Referral

[Rob 351]

Wow an article written by Josh Dowling that isn’t giving it to the blue oval.
Just hope Ford can keep up with demand once it’s released! Price doesn’t seem to worry buyers these days so the only thing that will turn buyers away is a lengthy wait for delivery!
If they get it right nothing will touch it…

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

I just hope Ford can keep RRP reasonable as they don't want to price themselves out of the market, although price seems to be less of an issue these days.

Ford need to be careful here. I have no doubt the new Ranger will be worth a small price increase but........

As it stands, many private buyers and small businesses are splashing out on cars in a time where travel is restricted. Can't go on the round-the-world trip or luxury cruise, discretionary spending has been diverted to other luxury or high dollar goods. Some businesses have seen big upward swings due to Covid also, my employer has purchased two new company cars and a $20,000 mower.

At the moment, Ford are printing money and selling every car they make without having to discount or worry about pricing the product too high. All of the above won't last forever though. So while they may feel justified asking $70K, 80K or even 90K, it could come back to haunt them when things return to 'normal'.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Lol, you underestimate the average cashed up Aussie bogan, paying whatever it takes to be at the front of the queue is their 'normal', you only have to look at the property market to see evidence of that mindset.

At some point you have to admit that this goes way beyond cashed up bogans,
many people with high disposable income, leveraging themselves and claiming
tax deductions by managing their properties, vehicles and investments.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Agreed, stupidity isnt specific to bogans, any idiot dropping money on a mass produced item before its even been priced publicly is destined to pay more than they need to for the privilege of being at the front of that queue.

Well if most of these are leased and the costs written off as business expenses,
the perception changes a bit. Considering Raptors details are yet to be announced,
I’m surprised that many are going so early but maybe that will change as more is revealed…

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Agreed, stupidity isnt specific to bogans, any idiot dropping money on a mass produced item before its even been priced publicly is destined to pay more than they need to for the privilege of being at the front of that queue.

It’s easy when dumb asses give 85% back on your 4 year old one with 80,000 kms on it… I’m happy to pay a bit extra to be first in the new one, made it up on the old one!

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

It’s easy when dumb asses give 85% back on your 4 year old one with 80,000 kms on it… I’m happy to pay a bit extra to be first in the new one, made it up on the old one!

benty has trouble getting dealer finance on second hand cars

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Which Falcon? the majority of them sold were Futuras weren't they? . now that's boring.

The XR6 was the most popular model for a long time.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

How do you get finance on a 12 year old Falcon???

Some 12 y/o Falcons arent cheap now (although some on here will argue their value) and not many folks would have the spare coin to spend on one. Not sure if its a good idea though.

[jpd80]

In any regard, lots of people can and do afford to buy pricey new vehicles.
If people have a problem with that then maybe the issue is getting off topic.
I’m amazed by the prices that Ford is able to charge for Rangers but equally,
it’s amazing to see so many buyers paying those prices, people really want them.