My views on the Performance Car Market

[onfire]

Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man

I assume you are aware that the original Cobra was just an attempt to move excess coupe body shells, so why is the BF Cobra any different (apart from the colours already being available on the regular range). They just ran the regular standard engines too.

I did get your point but it really just was an attempt to sell some cars.

I actually think there are almost too many performace cars to choose from and they are so affordable they have now blended into the streetscape. You can get a variety of V8 muscle from Ford, FPV, Holden, HSV, Chrysler plus the turbo muscle from Ford and FPV too. Then there are the turbo 4s like Rexes, the new Lancer, Golfs and Jettas, Audi's etc. There is so much to choose from that having a performance car is now the norm instead of it being unique.

I agree with these statements, you flood the market, theres going to be a decline in value. Its like music in a way, too many bands begin sounding the same, the uniqueness of the trendsetters begins to fade away.

Even when it comes to an example like an SS Commodore, 15 years ago as a young lad, I would have been in awe of a nicely presented SS sitting next to my family wagon at the lights. Today, I can tour the Safeway carpark and point up 50 brand new examples.

Im not an expert, more so a casual observer, but I see ED XR8 Sprints in the sale section for $8000. Im guessing a limited number were produced and therefore they held some value. Today sports cars in sitting in every family's driveway.

Take for example, my mate buying a SS thinking he'd be unique. He said, after a week of owning it, he discovered how many there really are on the road.

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by onfire

I agree with these statements, you flood the market, theres going to be a decline in value. Its like music in a way, too many bands begin sounding the same, the uniqueness of the trendsetters begins to fade away.

Even when it comes to an example like an SS Commodore, 15 years ago as a young lad, I would have been in awe of a nicely presented SS sitting next to my family wagon at the lights. Today, I can tour the Safeway carpark and point up 50 brand new examples.

Im not an expert, more so a casual observer, but I see ED XR8 Sprints in the sale section for $8000. Im guessing a limited number were produced and therefore they held some value. Today sports cars in sitting in every family's driveway.

Take for example, my mate buying a SS thinking he'd be unique. He said, after a week of owning it, he discovered how many there really are on the road.

Spot on, my brother in law has been saying for the last few years how everyone seems to have an XR8 or SS. They are almost like the base models.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Spot on, my brother in law has been saying for the last few years how everyone seems to have an XR8 or SS. They are almost like the base models.

I don't see any problem with that......after all...we're talking about performance aussie cars and not limited edition GoGomobiles........

Nothing wrong with having these cars as accesible as they are....I enjoy seeing both models on the road.

If you have the coin and the passion for a great aussie performance car.....your choices are the best that they've ever been in decades.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by ESP

I don't see any problem with that......after all...we're talking about performance aussie cars and not limited edition GoGomobiles........

Nothing wrong with having these cars as accesible as they are....I enjoy seeing both models on the road.

If you have the coin and the passion for a great aussie performance car.....your choices are the best that they've ever been in decades.

So true, there are so many good choices at the moment that it is giving me a headache trying to pick one for our new car later this year.

[mr smith]

But lets face it, lots of people buy the performance models to stand out and look the part, this appeal has been lost. Doesnt change the fact they are some of the best priced performanced cars around.
In fact I have been looking at some well priced F6 BF's

[Bossxr8]

Direct injection + turbocharging + 5 litre all alloy V8 = power of a V10 with the economy and emissions of a large V6.

DI alone can reduce emissions by up to 25%.

This is the way Ford want to go, DI and boost to keep the power up while reducing emissions and fuel consumption.

[Bossxr8]

Direct injection + turbocharging + 5 litre all alloy V8 = power of a V10 with the economy and emissions of a large V6.

DI alone can reduce emissions by up to 25%.

This is the way Ford want to go, DI and boost to keep the power up while reducing emissions and fuel consumption.

Just like the current F6, it will drink when flogged, but very quite economical when cruised off boost.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by mr smith

But lets face it, lots of people buy the performance models to stand out and look the part, this appeal has been lost. Doesnt change the fact they are some of the best priced performanced cars around.
In fact I have been looking at some well priced F6 BF's

In your initial post you mentioned the XR8 and SS ?

Sure they are still performance models, but its the HSV and FPV models you would consider if you wanted something less mainstream.

I do agree that even these models are becoming more prevalent........but they certainly aren't common in the sense that you see a couple of dozen on the road every trip you make everyday ??

Ask any FPV or HSV owner if they've lost the appeal of their car.........I think you'll get the same answer every time.

Ask any potential buyer of a new or even used FPV and I also think that you'll see them grinning from ear to ear. Look at some of the posts from members who have just purchased the new FG GT or F6 and you'll see what I'm talking about.

In fact..........some of the feedback from potential buyers is that they don't want to stand out...............hence the GTE and F6E !!!!!!!

[Carby]

I think the future of the performance car as we know it is doomed, but not necessarily for the reasons mooted above - I think we will be legislated out of these vehicles.

I expect that with Australia's adoption of making the world cleaner (commencing next year) that:

Turbo's and V8's will be taxed more registration.
Expect a carbon tax on vehicles - the more CO2 grams per kilometre the more you pay - why else would they put that on the presale stickers plasted on the window of new cars now?
Insurance will increase drammatically on V8's and Turbo's
Councils will restrict parking to gas guzzlers or make parking costs prohibitive.
CBD Congestion taxes for larger engined vehicles
The price of petrol will rise again - the oil companies are criminals and when the GFC is over we'll all hear about "Peak Oil" again and petrol will get to $1.50 a litre again.

My current GTS will be the last performance car I buy - I can see the writing on the wall and when combined with the anti hoon laws and the increasing amount of negative comments from the general public on such "wasteful" cars, I just don't get the buzz from driving anymore - I feel like an environmental Hoon bandit!

Next car will be a very sensible small capacity (diesel?) Luxury car, the best days of driving performance cars are well and truly over, that is a realisation I think we all need to accept.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Carby

I think the future of the performance car as we know it is doomed, but not necessarily for the reasons mooted above - I think we will be legislated out of these vehicles.

I expect that with Australia's adoption of making the world cleaner (commencing next year) that:

Turbo's and V8's will be taxed more registration.
Expect a carbon tax on vehicles - the more CO2 grams per kilometre the more you pay - why else would they put that on the presale stickers plasted on the window of new cars now?
Insurance will increase drammatically on V8's and Turbo's
Councils will restrict parking to gas guzzlers or make parking costs prohibitive.
CBD Congestion taxes for larger engined vehicles
The price of petrol will rise again - the oil companies are criminals and when the GFC is over we'll all hear about "Peak Oil" again and petrol will get to $1.50 a litre again.

My current GTS will be the last performance car I buy - I can see the writing on the wall and when combined with the anti hoon laws and the increasing amount of negative comments from the general public on such "wasteful" cars, I just don't get the buzz from driving anymore - I feel like an environmental Hoon bandit!

Next car will be a very sensible small capacity (diesel?) Luxury car, the best days of driving performance cars are well and truly over, that is a realisation I think we all need to accept.

If we roll over and take it then it will assure it will happen. Time to stand up and fight, not roll over and accept it.

[GlenW]

The V8 will always be there in one way or another.
Over here in NZ turbo jappas have been around for years and are firmly entrenched in our culture (before I bought the GT I was looking at EVO Lancers) due to them being so cheap here, but I have seen quite a few of the young fellas getting into the classic V8s and I would say this will lead to the purchasing of a more modern V8 in later years.

I am not opposed to the idea of a turbo V8 - if money isnt an issue I will own one.

[mrbaxr6t]

As this thread is wandering a little I have read the posts of others and I realised something - Luxury cars of the past had things like electric windows, elec rearview mirrors, tinted windows and mag wheels - anybody noticed how these things are now in base models! & the performance sector is similar. I mean the engine in the standard Bseries car is quite impressive lets be honest. The base models are becoming better performers while at the same time becoming more luxurious G6E anybody? thats a luxury car. If we think back to the not too distant past Ford was a manufacturer of predominantly cheaper cars and if you wanted a sportscar or a luxury car you bought a BMW or an Audi (not a Ford is my point) and also There are truckloads of Xr6es out there now. If we look at the FG XR6 we note something quite alarming - Firstly its pricing iirc its the same price as a Futura type alternative. It has lost its "uniqueness" no side skirts not really too much different from the base model wheras in the EF/EL/AU right through the range to BF the XRs had the visual impact over the lesser models. This is no longer the case. It seems to me that the luxury car options are tumbling down to cheap base model vehicles, What defines a luxury car nowadays anyway? just the badge? These previously luxury car only features appearing as standard on base model cheaper cars is spoiling us rotten. I feel sorry for luxury/performance car manufacturers today they are forced to add features that aren't on base model vehicles and performance cars have to perform awesome to justify the price hike over a relatively cheap Falcon/commodore.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

If we roll over and take it then it will assure it will happen. Time to stand up and fight, not roll over and accept it.

Fight like they did in the 70's??

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

As this thread is wandering a little I have read the posts of others and I realised something - Luxury cars of the past had things like electric windows, elec rearview mirrors, tinted windows and mag wheels - anybody noticed how these things are now in base models! & the performance sector is similar. I mean the engine in the standard Bseries car is quite impressive lets be honest. The base models are becoming better performers while at the same time becoming more luxurious G6E anybody? thats a luxury car. If we think back to the not too distant past Ford was a manufacturer of predominantly cheaper cars and if you wanted a sportscar or a luxury car you bought a BMW or an Audi (not a Ford is my point) and also

Back in the olden days the performance cars were the Ford V8's and Holden V8's with the 6's sorta being there with the tickford badge. As for Luxury the Ghia badge or the high end Holdens were luxury. This was in the day when Holden and Ford had the market. It wasn't till deregulation that their market share started to decline as the imports were cheaper.

Before the FC Mercedes was selling and making record profits in Oz.

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

There are truckloads of Xr6es out there now. If we look at the FG XR6 we note something quite alarming - Firstly its pricing iirc its the same price as a Futura type alternative. It has lost its "uniqueness" no side skirts not really too much different from the base model wheras in the EF/EL/AU right through the range to BF the XRs had the visual impact over the lesser models.

B-series XR6's were mainly fleet buys cause they held a better resale value over the XT.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Fight like they did in the 70's??

Different situation. Government threats to stop buying cars is pretty hard to work around.

In saying that though the transport minister involved in the supercar scare of the 70's said years later that if the manufacturers had of come to visit him and talk it through, the whole thing could have been avoided, and the Phase 4 and XU2 could have hit the road, but they just cracked it and acted in haste to cancel the programs.

[tex]

Originally Posted by Carby

I feel like an environmental Hoon bandit!

Yeh baby that's me!

Peak oil, dwindling reserves, limited future availability - get in now, get your fare share.

I'll use whatever the tree huggers don't.

It occurs to me, in the last 10 years a lot of people decided to try a performance car, they weren't actually the true enthusiast, more a segment willing, at the time - and with a desire to experience the thrill. Nowadays, with increasing running costs, these are the people that want out. It no longer suits them to spend maybe 50% more to go from A to B.

Me, and a lot of my mates / colleagues, are true enthusiasts. We will 'give up' other aspects of our lives (lifestyle cost) BEFORE we give the V8 away.

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by tex

I'll use whatever the tree huggers don't.

I'll use what the tree huggers DO.

Ethanol baby !!!!!!.......... Renewable fuel is your friend :

Daniel

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by tex

Yeh baby that's me!

Peak oil, dwindling reserves, limited future availability - get in now, get your fare share.

I'll use whatever the tree huggers don't.

It occurs to me, in the last 10 years a lot of people decided to try a performance car, they weren't actually the true enthusiast, more a segment willing, at the time - and with a desire to experience the thrill. Nowadays, with increasing running costs, these are the people that want out. It no longer suits them to spend maybe 50% more to go from A to B.

Me, and a lot of my mates / colleagues, are true enthusiasts. We will 'give up' other aspects of our lives (lifestyle cost) BEFORE we give the V8 away.

I'll give up my V8 when they pry the steering wheel from my cold dead fingers. Or until I buy an FG XR Turbo lol.