German V Australian Car Culture

[RG]

Some of the posts in here really have left me scratching my head.

Engage brain before clicking "Submit Reply" is something a few here need to do.

[YOOT]

There are plenty of roads in Queensland that are not up to scratch enough for the speed limit posted on them.

I have found myself breaking heavily for corners that are too tight for the speed limit with no warning signs.

Or roads with poor geometry that are off camber and throw your vehical off the road as you go around.

Or bumps, cracks, failed sub grade, or very poor asphalting with dips and hollows that threaten to launch your car in the air or off the road based on the posted speed limit.

Have you ever tried to maintain kph through Mt Mee? I struggle to do kph in a WRX (its possible to go faster but its unsafe), yet hundreds of motorcyclist kill them selves every year on that road alone because of speed (usually they are trying to go faster than kph, but based on my comments they are probably doubling the ACTUAL design speed limit).

For this reason there are many accidents on our roads. Which is why having unlimited speeds on say the M1 would not contribute to more fatalities. The deaths will be occurring on the same roads they do now.

That and rural intersections...

[Brent]

Originally Posted by YOOT

There are plenty of roads in Queensland that are not up to scratch enough for the speed limit posted on them.

I have found myself breaking heavily for corners that are too tight for the speed limit with no warning signs.

Or roads with poor geometry that are off camber and throw your vehical off the road as you go around.

I've got to disagree a little with you there. Just because a road has a posted limit of 100kph on it, doesn't mean that you MUST travel at 100kph. The signpost represents the maximum legal speed at which you can drive.....its not the minimum speed. Do you ever change your driving speeds between a sunny day on a dry road, and when you're driving at night in pouring rain? Of course....but the speed limit doesn't change does it? You drive to the conditions using common sense.

I'm not trying to talk from a pedestal here, because we've all made mistakes, but I'd hazard a guess that if you're routinely having to hit the brakes hard just before a corner, or are feeling like your vehicle is about to be thrown off the road via bumps etc, then you're either driving too fast to begin with, or you're often not paying attention. C'mon, we've all done it before......been looking out the window or yapping to our passenger a bit much and all of a sudden you have to hit the anchors. But that's a driver error, pure and simple. Not the fault of the road signage. If you're concentrating on the job at hand, there's very little excuse for tearing into a corner too fast.

Brent.

[YOOT]

Originally Posted by Brent

I've got to disagree a little with you there. Just because a road has a posted limit of 100kph on it, doesn't mean that you MUST travel at 100kph. The signpost represents the maximum legal speed at which you can drive.....its not the minimum speed. Do you ever change your driving speeds between a sunny day on a dry road, and when you're driving at night in pouring rain? Of course....but the speed limit doesn't change does it? You drive to the conditions using common sense.

I'm not trying to talk from a pedestal here, because we've all made mistakes, but I'd hazard a guess that if you're routinely having to hit the brakes hard just before a corner, or are feeling like your vehicle is about to be thrown off the road via bumps etc, then you're either driving too fast to begin with, or you're often not paying attention. C'mon, we've all done it before......been looking out the window or yapping to our passenger a bit much and all of a sudden you have to hit the anchors. But that's a driver error, pure and simple. Not the fault of the road signage. If you're concentrating on the job at hand, there's very little excuse for tearing into a corner too fast.

Brent.

Sure whatever, your the expert I assume.

Besides I am lucky I drive a Subaru and they stick like schitt to a blanket so I don't worry about crap roads anymore, its all the other cars that worry me.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by YOOT

Sure whatever, your the expert I assume.

Besides I am lucky I drive a Subaru and they stick like schitt to a blanket so I don't worry about crap roads anymore, its all the other cars that worry me.

tactful response there yoot....

I woudl agree with you that some of the posted limits in qld make very little sense. Yes it is true that is the maximum permitted speed, so you need to have judgement of your own RE the correct speed to be going for the road/conditions. BUT alot of people out there who subscribe to the whole 'speed kills' mantra can get lured into focussing so much on speed that they believe that if they maintain the posted limit all will be good. Not so of course. Also worth mentioning that as car enthusiast we spend way more time and energy thinking about these things....the average motorist couldnt' give a toss about driving other than getting from A to B. Who knows what they are thinking.

For the record, i've seen more than a few subarus lose grip and visit the hedges. Its the drivers that really matter,, irrespective of AWD or whatever other tech suby uses its the nut behind the wheel that makes all the difference.

[YOOT]

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

For the record, i've seen more than a few subarus lose grip and visit the hedges. Its the drivers that really matter,, irrespective of AWD or whatever other tech suby uses its the nut behind the wheel that makes all the difference.

I was being sarcastic - and for the record its tires that make or break a car, not how many wheels are driving.

[YOOT]

My point is compare the Gateway Northbound of Brisbane to the M1 southbound.

Both roads try to push the same amount of traffic at the same speeds everyday.

One gets heavy but never slows down, and if there is a accident it rarely blocks the whole road, the other has five accidents a day which routinely block traffic in one direction and slow traffic to a crawl in the other. Why?

Road design. Its clear that 4 lanes at 110kmh with breakdown clearance zones on both left and right sides of both north and south carriage ways (effectively making six lanes each way) is safer. The other is 2.5 lanes wide only 90-100kmh and surrounded by concrete barriers...

I know we can't have M1 like roads everywhere but the point is its the poor design of the gateway that causes so many accidents which all happen well under the posted speed, yet the M1 has tens of thousands of cars traveling at 110 or more with no dramas. Sure they happen from time to time but nothing like the gateway.

Hence why Autobahn culture is perfectly safe and effective, which is why its so insulting to be booked for 7kmh over the speed limit on the M1. Thats not safety.

But seriously the overpass at Deagon deviation is impossible to go around at 100kmh with the cruise on, there is no yellow signs to say 90kmh or less, its just wide open freeway and then the spiral curve of the overpass tightens in on you and you are leaning hard on the outside tires just to make it around, then there is the metal expansion joints every 20m that toss the car up and out as you was over them, I mean what the hell? Sure my car handles it fine but the average motorist is going to get caught out. And as if to prove my point the concrete barrier is smothered in scrape marks, tire marks etc. Then there is wet, even if you are doing 80 the metal bearings are like ice, zero grip for a split second half a dozen times or more as you go around the bend. You wouldn't see that on an Autobahn.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by YOOT

, which is why its so insulting to be booked for 7kmh over the speed limit on the M1. Thats not safety.
.

Damn straight it aint!

[Director]

an important note is that the German Freeways are not always a free for all in terms of speed. The speed limits vary according to congestion and, and only certain parts of the highway are without speed limits. I think it works because the Germans know the rules, for the most part they respect and follow them and leave the left lane for those that want to travel at high speed.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by ST

"I wouldn't say they aren't too strict, but they have to draw the line somewhere."

If they raised the national average highway speed limit to 120 today, people would be shouting 140 tomorrow. While our speed limits are quite low and heavily enforced they do make a difference to road safety.

Wouldnt it be best to set the speed limit's at a safe realistic speed regardless of what everyone is shouting about. I think our speed limits should be overhauled, simplified (simply reducing the no. of speed limit changes on stretches of road) and increased where possible.

I spent some time in tassie recently and was impressed with how their speed limits are set up, very simple plus a lot of the dual carriage ways I drove on where 110 (even when close to a city - unlike Melbourne/Victoria, where you need to be out in the country on a divided road)

[BA GT-HO]

In Adelaide in particular I have noticed a gradual 'phasing out' of 80 and 90km/h zones, even if they used to be only short stretches of road. They are all marked 60km/h despite being 3 lanes wide and usually there is not much to hit. I could have sworn the road at Birkenhead after the cement works (the causeway?) used to be 80km/h now it is 60? Why is this so?

Driver training again is the no.1 problem. It is a bit harder to get a license these days than when I got one, but it is still ridiculously too easy. The Goverments seem to just kick back and collect the revenue and keep preaching the evils of SPEED! It is more inattention than speed usually.

Can you really imagine an autobahn in Adelaide working? The grannies doing 80km/h in the fast lane? The bogans maxxing out their VN's? Plus early aussie cars are not exactly built to be stable at speed exceeding 160km/h.

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by YOOT

Besides I am lucky I drive a Subaru and they stick like schitt to a blanket so I don't worry about crap roads anymore, its all the other cars that worry me.

[EDManual]

My mother in law came over from France a while back, couldnt believe that we have to do 100 when there are no corners, and that trucks are doing the same speed dicing in the traffic on 3 lane highways like the geelong melbourne freeway.

[Bad Bird]

Originally Posted by YOOT

and for the record its tires that make or break a car, not how many wheels are driving.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I wish other AWD lovers (read those who read/obsess about them on the internet without actually owning or driving one) could learn to understand that. AWDs advantage is traction out of corners and off the mark, but during steady-state cornering it's (pretty much) all the tyres.

[desGT]

Couple of weeks ago drove from Sydney to Melbourne. Big road works between Gundagai and Albury.

Sections of the road are 100kph with roadworks, concrete barriers, 2 lanes (one each way).

When this is complete, the new sections will be a divided highway with 2 lanes each way.

How do these 2 types of road translate to only 10kph extra?

[SVD]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

It would sky rocket substantially....

Just like early settlers that visited islands full of natives and gave them small pox and other common European illnesses.

The effect was dramatic almost instant. They didn't have years of immunity.

And nor do we. We can't go from our sedate and casual driving style to one with high speed roads and very regimented road rules instantly.

It would need to be introduced gradually, so we can change our ways to adapt to it.

I don't think that is 100% true, i reckon you'd see speed camera revenue drop by millions of dollars and the road toll would most likely grow a bit from people thinking they can do the High speeds without learning how to drive first.

[troppo]

Originally Posted by ST

EDIT: Actually let me ask this very simple question; if we adopted Germany's speed limits (including non-speed limits) tomorrow what effect do you think this would have on Australia's road toll?

I'll answer that by pointing out that in the two years since open limits were removed on NT roads in favour of a 130km/h limit, the road toll increased dramatically, last year being significantly worse than the previous.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by troppo

I'll answer that by pointing out that in the two years since open limits were removed on NT roads in favour of a 130km/h limit, the road toll increased dramatically, last year being significantly worse than the previous.

True,

However is there anything that can show this stat as a % of cars that use the road?

It is a contradiction that the number of deaths have gone up.. you would think it would have gone down.

If anyone does much driving on the major freeways in and out of the major cities you will be amazed at the general lack of courtesy and skill displayed by drivers.

I do around 60km of freeway driving every day. Not one day goes past where I wont see people overtake 10 cars up the left hand break down lane, or people that ride your tail, then drop 2 gears and fly around your left and just jam their way in front of you...

Or the people who take great pleasure at casually driving in the right hand lane right on the speed limit, forcing people to overtake on the left because they think it is their God given right to uphold the law and enforce it on everyone else.

I'm still waiting for the day I go to work and return home and not see an incident as described above.

Opening up the speed limits in these areas with these drivers will be a disaster if they can't even drive correctly now.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

True,

However is there anything that can show this stat as a % of cars that use the road?

It is a contradiction that the number of deaths have gone up.. you would think it would have gone down.

Wasn't it like 1 death in seven years when it had no speed limit?