More stupidy, more loss....

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

i know the police work very very hard all the time . but i hate it when they get on TV and say what more can we do . the answer is obvious . and that is police presence on the streets . not contractors /or police posted on highways with radars . thats the only point i was making / these police comments quickly get transferred into more revenus raising . i dont think shocke police persons should make statements like what more can we do , when they know the answer/ driver training/ police presence/ and more enficise on larikan behaviour . its the govts fault i know . combined with lack of education and safety awareness in individuals as well . one thing that could be done would be to find out why so many people are driving unlicenced

I agree completely with a lot of what you said but why is it all these threads get turned into a "anti speed camera" argument? The use of speed cameras had nothing to do with this incident. There is next to no chance that extra police on the road would have meant that a police car was nearby to prevent this incident. This sort of incident tends to happen where there is unlikely to be a police presence.

Heres a thought for you, these types of incidents were occurring long before speed cameras existed, how did speed cameras have anything to do with those? The answer is simple and the truth is harsh. The government is not at fault for these types of incidents, only the person involved in this behaviour is.

To me, the thought that the government should be blamed because someone was killed riding on the bonnet of the car at speed and the government did not educate them is ludicrous. If the government has to educate the population in such matters and ensure we do not take idiotic risks such as that, we will then truly live in a nanny state. Do we really need a nationwide TV ad programme telling us it is not safe to ride of the bonnet of a car at speed, nor should we ride on the roof of the car with our clothes doused in petrol and set alight in a kind of flaming Priscilla Queen of the Desert as it may be dangerous to our health.?

[BENT_8]

Great post Gecko!

What is wrong with people these days, why should the government be responsible for holding the hand of every clown in society.

As i have said before, having a few drinks can be perfectly safe as long as you conduct yourself accordingly.
Going by the victims own admissions, she is an out of control alcoholic which makes me think this isnt the first time she has taken her kids for a night out on the town followed by a drunken trip home, the difference this time was her dicision making between point A and B.

Condolences to the children.

[Jim Goose]

Maybe it would help it people drank less?
Took responsibility for their actions?
While we all agree that Police presence is lacking, the fact remains more and more people seeming do stupid things because of one reason or an other.
The 30yr old said on her facebook that she was a drunk... and had been dry for a whole week???

Its a sad fact of Australian life that drinking LOTS of alcohol on a regular basis is socially acceptable. But this out of the scope of my orginal post, that too many people die doing stupid things....

[ltd]

Absolutely shocking.
Whilst easy to deride these people, it could have started out innocently enough; some people just have woeful judgement at the best of times; moreso when there's alcohol involved. Sadly after making a stupid decision, most of us can dust ourselves off and are more careful next time. These people will never have that chance again. I feel for the children who had to watch their mother and aunty die. Hopefully they'll be taken care of and not left alone in their grief.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by ltd

Absolutely shocking.
Whilst easy to deride these people, it could have started out innocently enough; some people just have woeful judgement at the best of times; moreso when there's alcohol involved. Sadly after making a stupid decision, most of us can dust ourselves off and are more careful next time. These people will never have that chance again. I feel for the children who had to watch their mother and aunty die. Hopefully they'll be taken care of and not left alone in their grief.

Sorry, I can not agree with you there. Time for perspective, getting drunk in front of your kids, allowing a drunk unlicensed driver to drive the car while you bonnet surf is not a small thing.

It may sound harsh and for this I appoligise but personally I am glad it was the stupid adults that payed the price, not the innocent kids and/or another innocent family in a crash.

I guess I like so many other emergency services workers find it hard to show compassion to people that show such stupidity and blatant disregard to the welfare of others. In my eyes, that is an element here, that mother showed no regard for the safety of her own kids. Lets be honest here, those kids although not physically injured, are likely to go through their whole lives effected by PTSD. Having lived with PTSD for the last 30 years I know what it is like and would not wish it on my worst enemy. The mother got off light if you ask me.

I think it is time we as a society ceased saying "thats alright, it was an error in judgement" and started treating it for what it was. Bonnet surfing is not an error in judgement, it is a complete act of stupidity.

[gtfpv]

HMMMM . OK . WHAT MORE CAN WE DO . bring back the cane at school, lock up teens for the night who cause trouble, throw people in jail for not having a licence- not just after they have killed someone, advertise on TV that stupidity behind the wheel KILLS , NOT just speed and alcohol . RESPECT POLICE and be feerfull of them not have them call us sir and madam . dont tolerate bad behaviour in society . offend more than once and you;'ll go to a home or jail , after all this yes it will still happen
how many people are living on cocaine in society , and how unspoken about is it ,society instead of feeling sorry for them should be calling them crims and have no mercy, i asked a young person at work how prevailent drug use is in society today , his reply was his girlfriend is the only person he has ever met since being 14 that has never tried drugs . and he doesnt mean gunjja. parents are more to blame than anyone i think , but why have parents been allowed to allow this nonsense in society .
there is a real answer to WHAT MORE CAN WE DO . my best mate resigned from the force , because he slapped a person wwho spit on him . this person had jusrt bashed an elderly person in public . the offender got let off because my mate hit him , and my mate faced assualt chrges,after he's fellow officers dobbed him in and defended the offender he resigned in disgrace,he then worked for DOCS and told them to jam the job after 3 months because the system protected heroin atticks with kids, even abusive ones , while holding back honest people wanting to adopt children .
forgive my rant . but FFS heaps more can be done .

[ltd]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Sorry, I can not agree with you there. Time for perspective, getting drunk in front of your kids, allowing a drunk unlicensed driver to drive the car while you bonnet surf is not a small thing.

It may sound harsh and for this I appoligise but personally I am glad it was the stupid adults that payed the price, not the innocent kids and/or another innocent family in a crash.

I guess I like so many other emergency services workers find it hard to show compassion to people that show such stupidity and blatant disregard to the welfare of others. In my eyes, that is an element here, that mother showed no regard for the safety of her own kids. Lets be honest here, those kids although not physically injured, are likely to go through their whole lives effected by PTSD. Having lived with PTSD for the last 30 years I know what it is like and would not wish it on my worst enemy. The mother got off light if you ask me.

I think it is time we as a society ceased saying "thats alright, it was an error in judgement" and started treating it for what it was. Bonnet surfing is not an error in judgement, it is a complete act of stupidity.

You make a damn good argument that I cannot disagree with, but I really do feel for those kids. In the long run, they may be better off without a mother like her with such scant regard for her or others' safety; but we'll never know.

I was merely trying to point out that we've all had a few too many drinks at one stage or another, and we've all done stupid things whilst under the influence of alcohol. Did you know that statistically one of the most common phrases said before people die is: "Hey, watch this"?
That said, these women paid the ultimate price, and without knowing the full circumstances of their lives I am going to reserve judgement, even though I have suspicions as to what kind of people they were.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by ltd

You make a damn good argument that I cannot disagree with, but I really do feel for those kids. In the long run, they may be better off without a mother like her with such scant regard for her or others' safety; but we'll never know.

I was merely trying to point out that we've all had a few too many drinks at one stage or another, and we've all done stupid things whilst under the influence of alcohol. Did you know that statistically one of the most common phrases said before people die is: "Hey, watch this"?
That said, these women paid the ultimate price, and without knowing the full circumstances of their lives I am going to reserve judgement, even though I have suspicions as to what kind of people they were.

See your point, sometimes people deserve the benefit of the doubt, but this is clearly not one of them.

As for alcohol, the only time alcohol is an excuse is when you have been tied up and someone has poured it down your throat, the rest of the time it was your choice in the first place end of story. I know I sound harsh but you get a bit tired of cleaning up the mess while others sit there and claim it was the fault of the alcohol.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

See your point, sometimes people deserve the benefit of the doubt, but this is clearly not one of them.

As for alcohol, the only time alcohol is an excuse is when you have been tied up and someone has poured it down your throat, the rest of the time it was your choice in the first place end of story. I know I sound harsh but you get a bit tired of cleaning up the mess while others sit there and claim it was the fault of the alcohol.

Please mate, don't misunderstand me.
Alcohol is NEVER NEVER an excuse. Neither are drugs, mother issues or any other stupid reason constructed by defence lawyers.

My sympathy lies with the innocent victims (the kids); but the bulk of my sympathy lies with those brave enough to confront this type of thing on a daily basis. I have nothing but the utmost respect for emergency services workers, I think we can all agree that the officers who have to deal with and see the horror of these types of accidents deserve all of our respect. We tend to avoid such confrontational imagery in our lives and seldom spare a thought for those that pick up the pieces. I know I couldn't handle it myself, thanks for being there for us.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

HMMMM . OK . WHAT MORE CAN WE DO . bring back the cane at school, lock up teens for the night who cause trouble, throw people in jail for not having a licence- not just after they have killed someone, advertise on TV that stupidity behind the wheel KILLS , NOT just speed and alcohol . RESPECT POLICE and be feerfull of them not have them call us sir and madam . dont tolerate bad behaviour in society . offend more than once and you;'ll go to a home or jail , after all this yes it will still happen
how many people are living on cocaine in society , and how unspoken about is it ,society instead of feeling sorry for them should be calling them crims and have no mercy, i asked a young person at work how prevailent drug use is in society today , his reply was his girlfriend is the only person he has ever met since being 14 that has never tried drugs . and he doesnt mean gunjja. parents are more to blame than anyone i think , but why have parents been allowed to allow this nonsense in society .
there is a real answer to WHAT MORE CAN WE DO . my best mate resigned from the force , because he slapped a person wwho spit on him . this person had jusrt bashed an elderly person in public . the offender got let off because my mate hit him , and my mate faced assualt chrges,after he's fellow officers dobbed him in and defended the offender he resigned in disgrace,he then worked for DOCS and told them to jam the job after 3 months because the system protected heroin atticks with kids, even abusive ones , while holding back honest people wanting to adopt children .
forgive my rant . but FFS heaps more can be done .

No need for forgiveness....

Like you said it all boils down to society itself who stopped caring in the main about where we are headed.
Police these days cant give you kick up the **** anymore... why?
I understand the difference between "abuse" and slapping someone who deserved a dressing down because they were mouthing off.

Crims these days are let free when its painfully obvious they have done wrong against society.

Parents (those who actually stay together) both work and spend little time with their kids, their excuse is they are too busy trying to make ends meet (sometimes living well beyond their means)

we all seem hell bent on blaming others or the "nannny state" excuse.
Alcohol and drug abuse is on the increase (every supermarket now has a bottle shop, when decades ago they werent allowed.) Watch how many people pushing kids in trolleys load it up with booze. This child is now conditioned to drink alcohol even if his parents dont allow them to do so.
20yrs ago it was the male who went to the drive-through by himself.....

Parents bad behaviour in front of their kids means their kids get the idea its ok to do the same. Watch that Highway Patrol or The Force and youll see what i mean.

Most people drink because they are most probably depressed. This can easily be seen at how violent they become when drunk (or they also pop a few pills as well).

I sure we have all gotten drunk while younger and driven home. I did and there was no excuse for it. Ill admit that. One night I actually rode a push bike home and dont even remember how i got home and recall running into a parked car. After that wake up call i decided to change my ways.

However some people never want to learn from their mistakes or even realise they have made a mistake.. They just keep doing the same things over and over.... and never learn.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

No need for forgiveness....

Like you said it all boils down to society itself who stopped caring in the main about where we are headed.
Police these days cant give you kick up the **** anymore... why?
I understand the difference between "abuse" and slapping someone who deserved a dressing down because they were mouthing off.

Crims these days are let free when its painfully obvious they have done wrong against society.

Parents (those who actually stay together) both work and spend little time with their kids, their excuse is they are too busy trying to make ends meet (sometimes living well beyond their means)

we all seem hell bent on blaming others or the "nannny state" excuse.
Alcohol and drug abuse is on the increase (every supermarket now has a bottle shop, when decades ago they werent allowed.) Watch how many people pushing kids in trolleys load it up with booze. This child is now conditioned to drink alcohol even if his parents dont allow them to do so.
20yrs ago it was the male who went to the drive-through by himself.....

Parents bad behaviour in front of their kids means their kids get the idea its ok to do the same. Watch that Highway Patrol or The Force and youll see what i mean.

Most people drink because they are most probably depressed. This can easily be seen at how violent they become when drunk (or they also pop a few pills as well).

I sure we have all gotten drunk while younger and driven home. I did and there was no excuse for it. Ill admit that. One night I actually rode a push bike home and dont even remember how i got home and recall running into a parked car. After that wake up call i decided to change my ways.

However some people never want to learn from their mistakes or even realise they have made a mistake.. They just keep doing the same things over and over.... and never learn.

So many good points and so few rep points to give. There we have it in a nutshell.

Perhaps our "nanny state" is only a byproduct of our no responsibility society that requires the law makers and law enforcers to hold our hands every step of the way because the average person has no sense of right and wrong anymore.

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

i know the police work very very hard all the time . but i hate it when they get on TV and say what more can we do . the answer is obvious . and that is police presence on the streets . not contractors /or police posted on highways with radars . thats the only point i was making / these police comments quickly get transferred into more revenus raising . i dont think shocke police persons should make statements like what more can we do , when they know the answer/ driver training/ police presence/ and more enficise on larikan behaviour . its the govts fault i know . combined with lack of education and safety awareness in individuals as well . one thing that could be done would be to find out why so many people are driving unlicenced

I understand, wasn't having a go.

Police say such things because they deal with these kind of people very day and don't understand why there are so many...others go under the media radar and are far worse than this lot.

And to answer your second question; why do so many people drive unlicensed?...well....they know there are few consequences and if they cry enough in court and tell the Magistrate how sorry they are and how upset they were that their dog was run over when they were 5 years old and they can't handle...blah...blah...blah...well then they will probably get off with a bond or Community Service...that's why.

[Jim Goose]

Perhaps our "nanny state" is only a byproduct of our no responsibility society that requires the law makers and law enforcers to hold our hands every step of the way because the average person has no sense of right and wrong anymore.

id have to agree there. too many times too many idiots have made it to the news, so there is a knee jerk reaction from lawmakers....

And to answer your second question; why do so many people drive unlicensed?...well....they know there are few consequences and if they cry enough in court and tell the Magistrate how sorry they are and how upset they were that their dog was run over when they were 5 years old and they can't handle...blah...blah...blah...well then they will probably get off with a bond or Community Service...that's why.

Exactly, and the fact remains that the chances of actually getting caught is very slim.
Even if you do get caught its a slap on the wrist.

As an example my neighbour has driven around in over 40different unregistered vehicles in the past 3 yrs since he moved into his housing commission unit.
I have complained numerous times to traffic branch about him.
They have spoken to him a few times in the past, but again i have called the police a few times regarding the use of victorian trades plates on his private car (in QLD).
He was spoken too again a few weeks ago, but they couldnt take the plate as it was on private land. He still continues to drive the car.
I was lucky enough to speak to an officer who talked to him 2 yrs ago and confiscated heaps of number plates in his possesion back then.

My rant being... back to my point, is that he does it because he knows the chances of being pulled over is marginal.