Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle

[turboxf]

http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/16192

I bet GMH don't say that in there blurbs

[falconnut]

Yikes, i knew hybrids where more expensive to make but i had no idea they where THIS EXPENSIVE holy ****.

[IDT]

What a joke. that is crazy

[Gman_86_xr6]

And this is supposed to be the future?

I'll stick to the good old internal combustion engine for now thanks.

[bafel]

All this is based on only 6,000 sales, talk about a misleading headline.

[Rodge]

That would mean each of the 6,000 Volts sold would be subsidized between $50,000 and $250,000, depending on how many government subsidy milestones are realized.

Extract from the article. Some of the subsidies are over a 20 year period.
60,000 Volts are planned for production in 2012, so depending on how you crunch the numbers the subsidy per vehicle could be somewhere between $5,000 and $25,000 per vehicle by as early as this time next year and what about by say the end of 2015 when they ramp up production to say 200,000 units per annum ? Someone's taken a deliberatly "creative accounting approach" to generate a sensational headline, perhaps someone with a vested interest ?

[Wretched]

very misleading article. The author states the subsidy total is for each car currently made (3billion divided by the amount sold so far of which is 6000). If you're going to calculate it that way wouldn't have been better to wait till end of production?

But then if that's the figure he's come up with, then every single one made in 2012 is subsidy free?

[falconnut]

Good point, i am not sure either.

[jpd80]

This has less to do with the Volt and more to do with a person having an axe to grind
about government subsidies to Michigan state and auto companies.

I'm sure it would be cheaper to sit back, do nothing and wonder why new technology and
jobs continue to pass by the US auto industry but fortunately the US govt did something..

[2011G6E]

Doesn't matter...once you have a subsidy on anything, it logically means it is of such a state that it can't stand on it's own two feet on its own competing with other similar products.

The question should be "Does the Volt require subsidies to be affordable for the public?", and if the answer is a yes or even a qualified maybe, then it has some serious answers to face as to wther it is "the answer" we've been told it is...

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by Rodge

60,000 Volts

Guffaw.


Lukeyson

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Doesn't matter...once you have a subsidy on anything, it logically means it is of such a state that it can't stand on it's own two feet on its own competing with other similar products.

But that's the point.Volt really has no direct competitors in terms of extended range electric behicle.

The question should be "Does the Volt require subsidies to be affordable for the public?"
and if the answer is a yes or even a qualified maybe, then it has some serious answers to face
as to whether it is "the answer" we've been told it is...

No, the question should be whether the government wants to encourage development
of electrification technology for vehicles or just keep producing conventional types.

In the US, the cost without discount is approximately $40,000, so obviously Australians are being made
to pay $60K, the full price plus cost of RHD model, expensive compared the $32,500 US bargain.

Provided that the US applies subsidies judiciously, it will assist motor companies in
getting those initial sales that will help amortize the costs of new technology.


I am of the opinion that early adopters always make vehicles that cost too much
and would rather wait and see what companies like Ford will offer at a fraction of the price,
and without subsidies..........

[turboxf]

Very good debating going on , that is why i posted it , GMH didn't tell us about this tho!
http://www.chevyhardcore.com/news/sc...ro-or-corvette

What they are having did i read that correct???
Chevy Volt battery erupting into flames over the holiday weekend,

Seems like GM have got a good vehicle on there hands ??????????

What would you drive for free a CAMO or CORV

[2011G6E]

It's probably a good car...as long as you don't have any expectations of driving it as a normal car...and you don't mind "tailpipe emissions shifting", ie: instead of your exhaust pipe it comes it of the smokestack of a coal fired power station somewhere...

I have absolutely no doubt that there will be a breakthrough with battery technology that will allow five to seven hundred kilometer range and recharging in less than ten minutes...but there can be no arguement that we "need" limited and extremely expensive electric cars now to somehow "fund" the battery tech. The cars that are coming will bear no resemblance to the flawed vehicles we see now, and it will only poison the public to the good cars when they do come..."oh hell, not another damn expensive electric short range car"..."but this one is different! All the old problems are solved!"..."yeah yeah...that,s what you said about every other one you've tried to con us into buying..."

Wait until the good stuff comes along, then the public will buy it, providing the price is right...but trying to get them "used to the idea" by giving them halfway solutions doesn't solve anything.

[FalconXV]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

It's probably a good car...as long as you don't have any expectations of driving it as a normal car...and you don't mind "tailpipe emissions shifting", ie: instead of your exhaust pipe it comes it of the smokestack of a coal fired power station somewhere...

So coal is the only source of electricity is it? There are more options in terms of where you get it from, and affluent early adopters would probably have access to them.

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Wait until the good stuff comes along, then the public will buy it, providing the price is right...but trying to get them "used to the idea" by giving them halfway solutions doesn't solve anything.

Until then, I, for one am glad automakers are coming up with things like this to show that they are trying to make a difference and embracing progress.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Wait until the good stuff comes along, then the public will buy it, providing the price is right...but trying to get them "used to the idea" by giving them halfway solutions doesn't solve anything.

In some respects I agree with what you're saying but the carbon emission from
recharging using a coal fired power station source is still less than a conventional ICE.

Fleets are the only real sectors capable of effectively seeing reductions in fuel usage and emissions profile,
the rest of us can make use of ever increasing ICE efficiency and save the difference in outlay.

For private buyers, the correct sized vehicle an efficient petrol engine is still the
cheapest option followed by LPG and diesel, I wouldn;t be rushing to buy hybrid or Ev
until the cost of fuel makes it absolutely necessary...

[2011G6E]

Yes, coal is the only choice here in Oz.
Oh I know, they let you choose a "green power" option on your bill for an extra charge, but guess what? There aren't seperate power lines coming into your house from various sources...the small, tiny really, amount of alternative energy that gets fed into the system is just "mixed in" with the vast majority of power that comes from coal fired stations. Hate it or not, you are still getting power from coal...until the government grows a pair and uses our vast resources of uranium and thorium and goes nuclear...

[1TUFFUTE]

this is another huge example at how rampant and biased media trustes can be in our society and get away with it. Dont forget some bigwig in their company signed off on that crap. And from what i heard the volt was engineered and payed for initially from private money and then the gov got onbourd to make themselves look good with the greens...it wasnt their idea from the start to help by any means. Its only because the feeback with customer satisfaction is the highest ranking in the world at the moment...albiet slightly followed by the 911 haha

[1TUFFUTE]

britain uses wind
nz uses water
why cant we use the SUN as a major power source....surely we have the tech if the gov just let it happen...but thats another whole stroy i spose

[Rodge]

http://www.chevyhardcore.com/news/gm...sumer-reports/
The range doesn't appear to be all that good in very cold conditions.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Rodge

http://www.chevyhardcore.com/news/gm...sumer-reports/
The range doesn't appear to be all that good in very cold conditions.

Not really a problem n most of Australia...apart from the southern more populous zones where one would asume to be the main market for it. How does excessive heat affect batteries? In remote control cars in summer I know that batteries don't seem to last as long either...that or they seem to get really hot.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Yes, coal is the only choice here in Oz.
Oh I know, they let you choose a "green power" option on your bill for an extra charge, but guess what? There aren't seperate power lines coming into your house from various sources...the small, tiny really, amount of alternative energy that gets fed into the system is just "mixed in" with the vast majority of power that comes from coal fired stations. Hate it or not, you are still getting power from coal...until the government grows a pair and uses our vast resources of uranium and thorium and goes nuclear...

This.
The French did it with standardised reactors, they now boast extremely low carbon foot print.
Maybe Australia should do the same, that way we keep ahead of the game and still have
our vehicles, EVs that are recharged by nuclear power and hydrogen generated for our ICEs.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Not really a problem n most of Australia...apart from the southern more populous zones where one would asume to be the main market for it. How does excessive heat affect batteries? In remote control cars in summer I know that batteries don't seem to last as long either...that or they seem to get really hot.

I know with the electric Focus there's a system to keep the batteries at the ideal temperature and they specially make mention of the fact that this assists with longevity. Taking Ford at their word, (is that a safe thing to do ? ) reading between the lines excessive heat or cold can't be of assistance with battery performance or longevity.