I've got a coolant leak... suggestions?

[inventiv]

Hi all, can I get some help with this please?

I did a search but most answers suggest that if it's not the rad then it's most likely the welsh plugs. Well its deffinitely not those because I had them changed this morning and the leak is still there. So $350 later the problem persists... but my welsh plugs are now new and shiny

I climbed under the car and took some shots, here is the first one showing the hole where the coolant is coming from:


This is a closer shot inside the actual hole. The coolant seems to be dripping out of a gap inside there, as shown here:


The leak is a fairly rapid drip, but it only happens after I shut the engine off and the car is standing still cooling down (or heatsoaking as it were). Once it cools down the dripping stops...

Can anyone in the know please offer some pointers as to why I would have coolant coming from here? I can't do the work myself as I'm no mechanic, but this time around I'd like to go to one with a bit of info - so that they don't tell me something and I just believe them, and walk out with something I didn't need fixed, like welsh plugs.

Thanks in advance

[Beer Baron]

Welch plug that is in the block. Its in the bell housing area so its a gear box out job or the black steel hose behind the head has a pin hole it or the like but i doubt that very much.

Gearbox out with torque converter still attached. Flex plate off as well as the sandwich plate then you can knock it and knock a new one in.

Whats your location ?

[Whoosha]

Did the plug behind the flex plate get changed as well ?

[inventiv]

Originally Posted by Beer Baron

Welch plug that is in the block. Its in the bell housing area so its a gear box out job or the black steel hose behind the head has a pin hole it or the like but i doubt that very much.

Gearbox out with torque converter still attached. Flex plate off as well as the sandwich plate then you can knock it and knock a new one in.

Whats your location ?

Sounds expensive! I'm in Glenfield by the way - SW Sydney.

Whoosha, I don't know if they did that rear one to be honest, they charged me $350 to do the plugs so I doubt it for that price if it needs the gearbox out...

[falconhell74]

yep welch plug behind flex plate in back of block

[inventiv]

Oh cra*p, there's quite a consensus forming here for an expensive fix..

[XRGhia]

Not really expenisive.... Should only take a mechanic who knows what they're doing less than 3 hours....

[inventiv]

Cool, thanks everyone.

I'll go away and try find a good bloke with some know-how. I'll start with Joe at Crescent Motorsport and see what happens.

Cheers

[inventiv]

So the plot thickens...

Last weekend I had the air con cranking when I went to the shops. Come home, locked the car, walking away I hear a bang, followed by a waterfall sound. I turn around, there's a green coloured geiser comming out of the bonnet. I quickly lift the bonnet up and discover that the plastic housing on the right side of the radiator has cracked and let all the coolant go. Crap. Sunday arvo, 1 hour before the shops shut, and I need the car tomorrow.

Got to Repco just in time to buy an off the shelf radiator. Went back home and spent the rest of the night changing it out. So there went my budget for getting the rear welch plug fixed by someone. After coolant, demineralised water, radiator, thermostat etc.

Anywho, during the week I've been checking all the hoses for leaks and I have discovered another one.

So can anyone please shed some light on this:





This leak is located under the power steering pump where the bottom radiator hose joins the engine - for me that's the blue hose.

What has happened here, why would this be leaking and is it something I could do? Or should I just give it to the same guy that will change out the rear welch plug once the funds allow it?..

[inventiv]

I found this diagram of the water pump in a repair manual:



Could it just be that the o-ring has failed?

[mik]

i`m thinking let them do it, after the rear walsh plug is done and the o ring make sure they pressure test the system for more leaks, good luck.

[mongrelEF]

Yep, the o-ring's failed. Easiest way is to remove the water pump due to the fact that steel pipe often needs to be crowbarred out of the pump - removing the pump is better as you can lever the pump off the pipe.
My suggestion would be to fill it with silicone if it's only a seepage leak, and fix it when the pump dies.

[FERG_51]

Mate it looks like your whole cooling system requires replacing as the problems you've allready had suggest that that your cooling system has been neglected due to lack of coolant changes and every thing is corroded.

[inventiv]

Originally Posted by FERG_51

Mate it looks like your whole cooling system requires replacing as the problems you've allready had suggest that that your cooling system has been neglected due to lack of coolant changes and every thing is corroded.

Yep, I agree, I thought the same thing so I went ahead and bought new hoses, new reservoir tank, new radiator cap and thermostat when I had to change out the rad. So the only thing old now left on the system would be the pump?.. I'll get a new one of those too and hand it to the mechanic when I get them to fix the welch plug at the back. A pump is a pump right?.. Do I need a $100 oem one or can I just go with an eBay one?

A pressure test after that is a good idea, didn't think of that..

[mik]

the pumps are fairly basic to look at, some brands have the plastic pulley others have the metal, if you go to repco or bursons(probably ebay too) they have a cheaper one and a more expensive one, i don`t know that paying for the more expensive one gains you any more mileage out of the pump,
the one i have on now was the more expensive one ,and it`s nearly at the same mileage as the oem one started to fail,
the original one on mine the tell tale started to weep coolant at just over iirc 100,000 k`s, telling me the WP seal was on the way out, (the little hole in the snout of the pump),
the pump should come with water pump gasket and new o ring, some have a tiny satchel of rubber grease too iirc ,
they used to sell some pumps with no pulley on them, you would have to press your old one off and and press it onto the new pump.......not even worth the mucking around these days. which ever you pick i would make sure you have the pulley, o ring and gasket in the new water pump kit.

[Professor Farnsworth]

cooling system problems are a PITA. Since Feb in the EL i've done:

Water pump
timing case
heater tap cluster
upper hose
thermostat

and now it's leaking out of the sender in the header tank

Whatever is the next weakest point basically..

[Tobey]

That rear one is a box out job to do, you will be looking at about $400 from a mechanic. Joe from Crescent wont have any dramas doing it at all...

My BF has had all the welch plugs replaced and it only had 80 thou on it at the time, the PO obviously never looked after the cooling system.

Should have seen the **** that came out when i stuck a hose in the back of the block, when they do the rear, make sure they do a full flush as well. I wouldnt leave doing the rear one too late, because if it lets go, you will dump it all.

[inventiv]

Thanks mik, useful info. Yeah mine's weeping too, where the o-ring is supposed to join that metal hose. I'll get it changed out, safest thing.

Now I just need a good bloke somewhere close to do it all. Will try Tech 1 and Crescent Motorsport and compare prices.

Cheers all.

[inventiv]

Originally Posted by Tobey

Should have seen the **** that came out when i stuck a hose in the back of the block

Yeah when the rad let go for me last week I did my own weak attempt at flushing everything and the colour of the water was shocking.. clearly a neglected system. How worried should I be if the water comes out brown? Actually, no one answer that I changed it all out with Nulon 50:50 green.

I will be calling Joe as a few peeps have recommended him, hopefully he can fit me in. I hear he's a man down at the shop.

[rowan194]

I paid about $85 for a Protex water pump from supercheap. I also replaced the main belt while I was at it, which I think was about $35? It was relatively painless, just laborious. You will need an offset ring spanner to be able to get the 4 bolts off and on.

The pump comes with an O-ring for the heater pipe but if you're near a Ford dealer (or Bayford spares) you may want to get one of the green ones, which are apparently an improved design over the original. They're something like $3 each.

The end of my heater pipe was corroded, like yours probably is, but the new o-ring and a bit of form-a-gasket type 2 sealant (the stuff that doesn't harden) took care of it.

As for the welch plugs... what happened there? Was another one leaking? For $350 they probably only did one side, when there's actually 3 sides (including the rear). If you're getting the rear one replaced you may as well get the other side done too, if it hasn't been... it will be a LOT faster to do it with the engine out, maybe a minute or two per plug...

[inventiv]

Originally Posted by rowan194

As for the welch plugs... what happened there? Was another one leaking?

When they diagnosed mine they took one look at it and said welch plugs. Clearly didn't pay attention to which one was actually leaking and just did the easy ones. Or who knows, maybe one of the ones they actually changed was leaking too.

The whole thing sounds laborious like you say rowan194, I'll leave this one to the experts methinks.

[mik]

the problem with cooling systems is they are out of sight out of mind, the one thing i have always been a bit of a control freak about is the cooling system,
i could be wrong, but i reckon these are the most common things to cause break downs, i`d rather replace everything/do a service a bit earlier and know i can hop in the car and go to perth and not worry about the cooling system leaving me stranded.

[howfor54]

This thread has helped me, too. I've got a leak in the back of the water pump, whre the O ring has failed. I figured the only way to replace the O ring was to remove the pump, but I was hoping for an easier way. That one failed not long after the one into the thermostat housing.
When I went to the Ford parts to get an O ring I hadn't said much more than AU11 and O ring when the guy walked away and came back with the part, so I suspect it's a common fault.
Helpful advice here thanks

[david256]

I don't own a 6 so I'm not familiar with the heater return tube where it connects to the water pump, but couldn't you tap in a brass fitting into the water pump and shorten the return tube and fit a rubber hosed section.

Especially if the return tube is rusted and even if a new pump is being fitted and less chance of it happening again.

On the V8's there is a rubber hose between the pump and heater tube.

[rowan194]

Originally Posted by howfor54

This thread has helped me, too. I've got a leak in the back of the water pump, whre the O ring has failed. I figured the only way to replace the O ring was to remove the pump, but I was hoping for an easier way. That one failed not long after the one into the thermostat housing.

I asked the same question myself not long ago... there's two bolts you need to undo, one underneath the exhaust shield, and another behind the engine.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11340932

I've also had a bunch of leaks. If your water pump hasn't been replaced recently, it may be worth doing that anyway... I ended up doing it that way so I'm not sure how hard the "easy" way would be.

I think either way you're going to need to drain the coolant first.