mk2 escort RS2000 timing help.

[reddevil6]

Hey guys never had to do timing before its a 2.0l pinto mk2 RS2000.
now my timing belt is stretched so it jumps teeth and timing goes out you would put it back and after i little while it would be out again the guy i got it from showed me this before i bourght the car. now going to replace the belt, i have a new one.
do i have to pin the cam pully so it doesnt move to take the belt off? and to do it i just line the crank marks and cam marks up put the new belt on and tenshion it?
how do i set the dizzy to the right place once i have cam and crank lined up?
also do i need to line the 3rd pully that the timing belt goes around to any particular spot?
and can i take the metal bit that connects the top hose to the radiator off the motor? when putting back on do i need a gasket?

[JimStone]

You don't need to remove the thermostat housing to replace the timing belt (the metal bit that connects the top radiator hose) - if you are flexible enough you can replace the timing belt without removing the radiator, though you will need to remove upper shroud to access the fan & water pump pulley bolts.

Third pulley aligned via dizzy - this pulley drives the auxilliary shaft which in turn drives the dizzy, oil pump and fuel pump, see below for alignment of dizzy

A picture is worth a thousand words -



Note crank keyway is at the 12 oclock position when the crank pulley timing marker is at TDC.



Key things - turn engine over by hand unitl timing pointer is at TDC and cam pointer is aligned. Rotor button in dizzy will be pointing to no1 spark plug lead - theoretically should be a mark/line in the dizzy housing that the rotor button aligns with.

Tensioning belt - the belt should only require the idler spring pressure to set the correct tension - aling all marks, install belt, rotate engine clockwise by hand two full crank revolutions, recheck alignment marks, loosen tensioner mounts to enough to let the spring tension the belt, tighten tensioner mounts and finish reassembly.

Cheers


EDIT: Step by step purloined from the web -

[reddevil6]

Thanks heeps that should help me alot.
do you know which of the 4 marks on the crank pully is the right one to line up? i have a white mark on the 2nd one from the left so i might start with that one.
i was told by the person i bourght it from i need to use a advanced setting because of the aftermarket cam
i was asking bout the thermostat housing cos with it on its hard to line the cam up cos its right in front of the cam pully mark.

[JimStone]

Originally Posted by reddevil6

Thanks heeps that should help me alot.
do you know which of the 4 marks on the crank pully is the right one to line up? i have a white mark on the 2nd one from the left so i might start with that one.
i was told by the person i bourght it from i need to use a advanced setting because of the aftermarket cam
i was asking bout the thermostat housing cos with it on its hard to line the cam up cos its right in front of the cam pully mark.

Left most mark standing in front of the car facing the engine is TDC or zero degrees advance. Each deep mark is four degrees. Second mark from the left is 4 degrees, this will not be sufficient. As a guide, depending on cam you may require advance set anywhere from 8 -16 degrees at idle. This would mean you need to set timing somewhere between third and past fourth (rightmost) deep mark.



Pinto engines needs around 36 degrees maximmum advance around 3,500 - 4,000rpm - ideally the best option is to either use a degree advance timing light to set maximum advance or mark the crank pulley at 36 degrees and set to that mark at 3,500-4,000rpm.

whichever way you set the ignition timing, don't forget to disconnect or clamp off both advance and retard vaccum hoses from the dizzy when setting the timing.

You will need a new gasket if you remove the thermostat housing - it is Pinto specific ie the two bolt holes are offset so the multi fit gaskets ones really dont work very well.

EDIT - updated with pic and text to reflect 4 timing marks only

[reddevil6]

ok so just to be sure.
i take my old belt off set crank to say 8 degrees off to start with see if that works cos you said it could be anything from 8 to 16 degrees.
rotate cam pully to line up with its mark.
take the dizzy cap off and rotate that 3rd pully till the dizzy marrks line up wich should be lead no.1.
put the new belt on tenshion it, and make sure everything is still lined up.
put the dizzy cap back on.
try start it if it doesnt, do all that again but set crank to say 10 degrees try start again and so on till i find the right degrees for the crank?

[JimStone]

OK, two different processes at work here - cam timing and ignition timing.

Cam timing - this is synchronising the valve opening and closing with the crank - for the Pinto engine this is a static relationship and does not vary in operation.

Line up all the marks as per this picture



install belt, rotate crank two full turns, adjust tensioner, refit crank pulley, refit fan belt, etc. Job done.



Ign timing - this is synchronising when the spark plugs fire in relation to the pistons attached to the crank - this is a variable relationship and spark timing will advance and retard as dictated by vacuum load and revs.


After completing the cam timing sequence -

turn crank to 8 degrees, remove dizzy cap, set points gap, remove and block vac lines to dizzy, loosen dizzy clamp. Turn key to ing on (dash lights on), rotate dizzy (clockwise from memory) until points spark - should only be a small amount of rotation required. turn off ign, tighten clamp bolt, refit dizzy cap. Start engine, check timing with timing light, adjust as necessary. Refit vac lines.


PS you do not need to reset cam timing each time you do the ign timing.

[reddevil6]

ok tyx and sorry for asking all these questions that probaly seem dumb, but got a couple more.
do i need to remove the crank pully to replace belt? i thourght once the tenshion is released i could take it off.
the vac lines to dizzy im guesing there the 2 lines off that round thing connected to the dizzy 1 goes to the carby and the other goes to the um inlet manafold i think cant remember exacly where that one goes. so just remove and clamp?
whats the dizzy clamp? i know the cap clamps on but thats not what your talking about ay.
and how to rotate the dizzy?
and what is the points gap

[JimStone]

Yes, will need to remove crank pulley - the one the fan belt goes around that has the timing marks stamped in it.

Yes, two vac lines to the round thing - remove and clamp.

Dizzy clamp - where the dizzy goes into the block is a ushaped bracket with one bolt screwed through it into the block - this clamps the dizzy to the block and stops the dizzy housing turning whent he shaft inside rotates.

Loosen off the bolt and the dizzy can be rotated in place in the block.

Points gap - under the dizzy cap is a set of contact points - this tells the coil when to discharge its stored energy which is what makes the spark pligs spark and ignite the fuel.

Points gap needs to be set - have a look at this video for how to set points, video is of a Toyota engine, but has the same process

http://youtu.be/Y9wZvcr3v2c


Happy to answer questions , but in all honesty I recommend you drop into Repco/Supercheap/etc and pic up a Gregorys or Haynes manual for the car.

[reddevil6]

ok so went out today got crank at TDC and cam lined up but the dizzy is bout a cm or 2 passed the mark. now to line it up right do i have to take to dizzy out and turn it round till correct? because the way u said just losing it and turn while still in block is only for advanciing the ign timing right. will get a book in a bout a month or so when got some money again.

[JimStone]

Cm or two past mark will be the timing advance you have dialed in at the moment.

You can loosen and turn the distributor at this stage if needed to align the rotor with the mark, aim to have the mark and rotor pointing the the lower left corner (roughly between 7 and 8 oclock position) when standing at the passengers side of the engine bay and looking down at the dizzy - turn the 'third pulley' to get the rotor pointing in the right location when fitting the timing belt then turn the dstributor body to align the mark.

This process sets everything at a starting base line ensuring the cam is basically phased correctly with the crank and the ignition timing is set at zero degrees advance. From here you go onto the next step of setting the ignition timing as previously described.

[reddevil6]

ok so i think to problem is the ign timing. took cap off dizzy turned motor over till the rotor arm lined up with the mark at no.1 and its set at 24 degrees BTDC, i guess thats why it wont start and if it does it dies after a couple seconds. so bout to set it to 8 degrees and see how that goes. if that runs want to advance the cam by 4 degrees because i think thats where its ment to be as there is a white mark on the crank pully at the 4 degree mark and i think (but not sure) it has a aftermarket cam in it. if i doo that shound i leave my ign timing at 8 degrees or will i have to change that too?

[reddevil6]

and if the timing belt is off can i turn the 3rd pully to move the dizzy around without the crank or cam moving?
and when i loosen the dizzy clamp will the springs go back to the middle? (no mechanical advance)

[reddevil6]

went out today turned engine to TDC removed vac lines from dizzy loosened clamp bolt turned dizzy till the rotor was pointing at the mark on the body at spark plug lead no.1, tightened clamp. put vac lines back on turned motor around 2 turns but stoped at 8 degrees BTDC on the 2end turn removed vac lines turned ign on loosened clamp turned dizzy till was pointing at the mark at lead no.1 and heard it spark tightened the clamp. and wont even fire now. before it was at about 20 - 24degrees BTDC not 100%sure cos my marks only go to 12 degrees BTDC but that timing was out cos of jumping teeth. is this because of the aftermarket cam? will the not work at std timing? and if it is a aftermarket do u think i would need to advance the cam to the crank? i think i might cos there is a white mark on the 4 degrees BTDC mark on the crank pulley

EDIT: oh and cos im pouring fuel down carby to test cos need a new fuel pump and tank is empty can i flood the engine cos its not fireing? if so how to tell if engine is flooded and how to fix?