New Tow Tug ,What to Buy?

[351LTD]

They must be selling heaps of isuzus and ivecos or the salesmen are not on commission as after a few emails and calls still no quotes,on the other hand Hino are on the ball got the quotes the next day and have already had follow up phone calls from both the sales man and sales manager and there new truck looks the goods on paper,205hp/600nm ZF Auto and 4 wheel disc brakes.

[XR Martin]

Pretty sure it's an Aisin auto (not that there's anything wrong with that, probably more reliable than anything ZF)

[EBSXR6]

Originally Posted by 351LTD

They must be selling heaps of isuzus and ivecos or the salesmen are not on commission

A colleague leased an Isuzu last year. Had several quotes for different configurations as he goes off-road and had a budget.

He took delivery and they had stuffed the order up, they had included a heap of extra off road equipment that he had deleted from the original order.
The bonus extras included a suspension lift kit, long range fuel tank and winch.


The salesman processed the original order, my colleague contacted the leasing company as they had to notify the insurance company. The leasing company also contacted the dealer and they just accepted the stuff up.

[Crazy Dazz]

Rental companies in Perth happily rent out de-rated trucks that "you can drive on a car licence"

What they don't tell you is that:

1. If you don't know WTF you're doing, and/or the biggest thing you've ever driven is an i30, then you should leave it to the professionals.
2. As soon as you load more than a few hundred kilos, you're breaking the law.
3. When you have an accident (even if you paid extra for insurance) you won't be covered.

Point being that numbers are for legal purposes.
Yes, you shoul abide by the law, but you must also consider the real-world physics.

I know a bloke who occasionally hauls his big boat out of the water for maintenance. I'd say she weighs around 3~3.5T, plus the tri-axle trailer. To haul it, he borrows a truck from work, chains a bulky in place over the rear-axle, and fills it with water. So that's an extra tonne over the axle, and he still struggles for traction if the ramp is dirty. Needless to say, he's only hauling it from Hillarys back to his property, he's not sojourning across the country.

You can buy cars with top speeds of over 300kph. (and by law your tyres must be rated accordingly) but does than mean you should? No, on most roads in Australia you would kill yourself.
Well same goes for many of the claimed tow weights.

[351LTD]

Sorry yes Aisin Auto and more worried about the insurance company than the law if overloaded and **** happens !

[Swordie]

The 200 Series could be very good buying now with the new 300 Series Cruiser due this year. They have strong potential to hold price and may appreciate meaning the cost of ownership is very attractive. Toyota offer 7 year warranty on their drive line too.

[351LTD]

LC200 second hand prices are high as the new 300 may be a 6 or even a 4 !! and the payload is zip !

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Rental companies in Perth happily rent out de-rated trucks that "you can drive on a car licence"

What they don't tell you is that:

1. If you don't know WTF you're doing, and/or the biggest thing you've ever driven is an i30, then you should leave it to the professionals.
2. As soon as you load more than a few hundred kilos, you're breaking the law.
3. When you have an accident (even if you paid extra for insurance) you won't be covered.

Point being that numbers are for legal purposes.
Yes, you shoul abide by the law, but you must also consider the real-world physics.

I know a bloke who occasionally hauls his big boat out of the water for maintenance. I'd say she weighs around 3~3.5T, plus the tri-axle trailer. To haul it, he borrows a truck from work, chains a bulky in place over the rear-axle, and fills it with water. So that's an extra tonne over the axle, and he still struggles for traction if the ramp is dirty. Needless to say, he's only hauling it from Hillarys back to his property, he's not sojourning across the country.

You can buy cars with top speeds of over 300kph. (and by law your tyres must be rated accordingly) but does than mean you should? No, on most roads in Australia you would kill yourself.
Well same goes for many of the claimed tow weights.

Bingo - 7500GVM truck downrated to 4500KG, so you have a massive tray wit ha few hundred kilos of payload.

Which you inevitably exceed and are no longer covered by insurance.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Bingo - 7500GVM truck downrated to 4500KG, so you have a massive tray wit ha few hundred kilos of payload.

Which you inevitably exceed and are no longer covered by insurance.

The small Isuzu N series that has had its gvm reduced to 4500 weighs not much more than 2 tonne with a flat deck.
So in that application can get more than 2 tonne in the tray.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Bingo - 7500GVM truck downrated to 4500KG, so you have a massive tray wit ha few hundred kilos of payload.

Which you inevitably exceed and are no longer covered by insurance.

Thats rubbish, trucks downrated to 4495gvm are in the 5000-6000gvm range not 7500gvm. BTW 4.5 ton is still regarded as a light truck licence (ie 4.5T and over)
Just upgrade your licence and be done with it.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Thats rubbish, trucks downrated to 4495gvm are in the 5000-6000gvm range not 7500gvm. BTW 4.5 ton is still regarded as a light truck licence (ie 4.5T and over)
Just upgrade your licence and be done with it.

I'm specifically talking about AVIS and the other car rental companies who advertise these downrated trucks to normies about the 'truck you can drive on a car licence' - who then subsequently load it up over GVM it's new lower GVM.

We used this early last year and I warned about it when we had ****loads of pallets, heavy equipment on the back of it but they weren't concerned as 'theres no weighbridge between destinations'.

We had a single cab LWB truck with a huge tray that had swaging equipment, mechanical presses and other massive equipment on the back of it.

The numbers I mentioned aren't important, what is that the above scenario was being driven by a bloke who drives an Astra 10km round trip to work, who was behind the wheel of a truck doing 100s of kilometres on Melbourne's freeway network.

Luckily we only had once incident where we damaged our own company car

[351LTD]

got the iveco daily van guote ,$80k with full auto and 180hp but another $2500 and 6 month wait for the 205hp one,Funny how the advertising says one thing but in the real world its another story?just isuzu to come !!Still not sure which way to go truck/van(storage/payload) or v8 patrol/jeep(4x4ing/fun) or even be like everyone else and get a lc200 (boring) No panic as nobody seems to be able to supply much of anything new or second hand at the moment .

[davenl5l]

Ford F150 would be my choice funds permitting

[351LTD]

yes not sure on the 150s towing specs but buy price is up there for a new one and not sure on the 5.4 in the older ones ,especially towing.

[hayseed]

I detect Change in the Air.........

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...needed-128424/

[351LTD]

Can Not see it happening!

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by hayseed

I detect Change in the Air.........

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...needed-128424/

Wont happen, there are too many van loads on the road.
This t\is their idea of preparing the younger generations for electric cars, that can only pull 200kg for about 200meters before the battery is flat.

[Tassie f100]

Probably won’t happen to the extent that Mr Young is advocating,but if enough evidence is presented to the relevent authorities there might be new regs implemented,especialy in regard to tow vehicle weights vs towed weight.Prettty sure the Govt has been hoodwinked by the manufacturers when it comes to towed weights.Maybe I am to much old school,but in my mind it is rediculous to tow a 3.5 tonne hollow windsock with a vehicle weighing only 2/3 of that weight

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Probably won’t happen to the extent that Mr Young is advocating,but if enough evidence is presented to the relevent authorities there might be new regs implemented,especialy in regard to tow vehicle weights vs towed weight.Prettty sure the Govt has been hoodwinked by the manufacturers when it comes to towed weights.Maybe I am to much old school,but in my mind it is rediculous to tow a 3.5 tonne hollow windsock with a vehicle weighing only 2/3 of that weight

I think the Insurance Industry will (should) start applying an Additional Towing Excess when Towing a trailer with an ATM greater than the GVM of the Towing Vehicle..

That would set the cat among the Pigeons..

The insurance Industry already to it to the Trucking Industry.. Every single tipping Truck/trailer I've ever owned has had Double excess applies while ever the Tipping Hoist is Engaged Noted on the insurance policy..

[351LTD]

If enforced it would kill the caravan industry over night,too much money involved for it to happen.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by hayseed

I detect Change in the Air.........

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...needed-128424/

So only Super Duty F-450's upwards can tow big vans?

There are basically no vehicles on our roads that weigh more than 3 tonne. Except trucks.

[prydey]

It would be good if people did use actual evidence rather than assuming everyone is driving around towing 3.5t.
The number of vans substantially above 3t being towed would be a minority.

The number of accidents caused by the human element (driving errors, overloading, set up etc) would be the majority.

Colin young loves to deal in worst case scenario type language. While what he suggests would be very safe, there is little evidence to suggest the l regulations need to go to those extremes.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by prydey

It would be good if people did use actual evidence rather than assuming everyone is driving around towing 3.5t.
The number of vans substantially above 3t being towed would be a minority.

The number of accidents caused by the human element (driving errors, overloading, set up etc) would be the majority.

Colin young loves to deal in worst case scenario type language. While what he suggests would be very safe, there is little evidence to suggest the l regulations need to go to those extremes.

Don’t think anyone is assuming that all caravans are 3.5t He is pointing out the concerns about towing big boxes with unsuitable vehicles.The point he is making is that isn’t very safe practice to tow something heavier than the tow vehicle using the system having it swinging around so far behind the rear axle.That is why semi trailers on trucks and 5th wheel caravans are so much safer when the trailer exceeds the prime mover weight by multiples.Peole like yourself who tow maybe 1.5-2 tonnes with 2 t cars probably aren’t going to get into too much trouble

[351LTD]

Live in a caravan park see it everyday,where the tail is heavier than the dog and it does not have to be a very big caravan either,even front wheel drive vechiles!

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Don’t think anyone is assuming that all caravans are 3.5t He is pointing out the concerns about towing big boxes with unsuitable vehicles.The point he is making is that isn’t very safe practice to tow something heavier than the tow vehicle using the system having it swinging around so far behind the rear axle.That is why semi trailers on trucks and 5th wheel caravans are so much safer when the trailer exceeds the prime mover weight by multiples.Peole like yourself who tow maybe 1.5-2 tonnes with 2 t cars probably aren’t going to get into too much trouble

Not sure you read what I wrote properly. I'm not suggesting it's safe, just that in the real world these scenarios aren't actually that common.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by 351LTD

Can Not see it happening!

i believe It will have to happen..
There's far too many Accidents/Mishaps and something will have to give..

Governments lack the Gonads to do it.!!

which leaves the Insurance industry to Do It.. They're all about risk management. the bigger the risk, the higher the Premium/Excess applied..

[prydey]

Originally Posted by hayseed

i believe It will have to happen..
There's far too many Accidents/Mishaps and something will have to give..

Governments lack the Gonads to do it.!!

which leaves the Insurance industry to Do It.. They're all about risk management. the bigger the risk, the higher the Premium/Excess applied..

As a percentage of total road accidents, they would barely be a blip on the radar.

[351LTD]

ran into a frieghtliner with a sports chassis conversion towing a big 5th wheeler in a park the other day real real cool(tried posting pic )

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by prydey

As a percentage of total road accidents, they would barely be a blip on the radar.

Exactly. They make out like their is carnage all over our roads with caravanners. It is simply not the case.

[351LTD]

Finally got the Isuzu quotes,had to go in and stir them up,Hino 721 comes out way ahead on dollars and Spec,test drive next just to get a feel of the Auto etc and a test drive of the iveco on friday so slowly moving forward,then time for a decision single or double cab.Fairly certain I going the small truck way at the moment.One thing is Very noticeable and that is Truck and Truck extras Businesses are very busy.