VFacts February '10

[SSD-85]

For Fords part this is, at best, difficult to comprehend. As for holden, their results arent suprising. Just still hard to understand.

[Franco Cozzo]

My closest Ford dealer, they only had a new Mondeo and a new Fiesta in the show room, plus a new Fiesta CL and Ranger Wildtrak out the back, the rest was full of used cars.

They had a used FG XR6 sedan, that was the closest thing they had to a new Falcon.

[snappy]

Originally Posted by puts99

I'm glad you're not in charge of Ford Australia.

The facts are, cash buyers ready to buy a Falcon on the spot are being turned away because there are none avaliable.

That is not good for business, no matter what kind of spin you put on it.

What does it cost to have the production line running for a extra day . Have a guess , im guessing hundreds of thousands . Not included benefits
On that same day how many cash buyers do you think ford dealers would get .
Without out a specific orderin mind as in G6 in blue with premium sound and leather/safetypack tow ball or etc .
Are you just supposed to have every colour every combination just sitting there just incase.

[bystander31]

Originally Posted by Falcman0o7

HOLDEN...
I don't hate the cars..I hate the ************** that make them out to be the best thing since sliced bread. And i'm talking mostly about the marketing team.

So....you hate the Holden Marketing Team...for doing a good job? : : What the hell? You do know that they are paid to make ads that sell cars?

Would you rather Holden employed the Ford Marketing Team perhaps? :

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by snappy

What does it cost to have the production line running for a extra day . Have a guess , im guessing hundreds of thousands . Not included benefits
On that same day how many cash buyers do you think ford dealers would get .
Without out a specific orderin mind as in G6 in blue with premium sound and leather/safetypack tow ball or etc .
Are you just supposed to have every colour every combination just sitting there just incase.

The thing is, every other car factory on the planet has the same issues with costs and logistics in producing cars, why is it that Ford AU is always excused for lack of production?

[cosmo20btt]

I suppose if Ford are more interested in private sales=profit then they are becoming more niche market, so if Ford is making money then don't worry about who's the top of the sales ladder. The important thing is they will keep making cars here. I think in one of the other threads OhioXB wrote in his post that if a model was only making 56000 units a year in the states, it would be canned, so by that statistic with Ford, the Falcon would have been gone long ago.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by bystander31

Would you rather Holden employed the Ford Marketing Team perhaps? :

To answer your question and add my 2 cents worth, why yes I would.

I work at Honda, how many cars are they selling? We've got a bloody heap of new Accord Euro's sitting on our lot.

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by Falcman0o7

HOLDEN...
I don't hate the cars..I hate the ************** that make them out to be the best thing since sliced bread. And i'm talking mostly about the marketing team.

The adds on TV, really get to me!! Completly agree with you.

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by snappy

I dont know which of you posts was edited . If its was a comment with the intention to provoke your lucky its was not deleted.
Part of the moderators job is to make sure the coversation does not get out of hand . An 99% of your posts are pro-holden so i dont think your doing to bad .

On topic number of sales are not that important . Profit is , Right now they are building to order if people are not ordering because a certain vechicle is not a available for awile , so be it go across the road and you can settle for the competition . Im sure ford know this and the pro's outway the con's . Holden want to be known as the best selling cars in oz and will do what ever it takes to stay that way .
Remember last year thry were knocking 10k of retail price . An even though there still the top selling car is oz they still dont turn a profit . So clearly what they are doing now still is not working .

Nope, I said something along the lines of 'only change in 4 years is a better engine, how they still sell these things is beyond me' something close anyway. My posts aren't pro-holden, it was just anti-aurion lol.

So, the question is, is ford making a bigger profit then Holden at the moment? I thought both companies were selling cheaply last year, I picked up mine fairly cheap, well compared to retail anyway. But 10k?? :togo: How cheap do fleets pick these cars up for anyway?

[Geez Louise]

Originally Posted by kezzer

The adds on TV, really get to me!! Completly agree with you.

Probably going against the majority here, but looking at it from a pure consumer perspective (Which I am) If I wasn't so Pro- Ford, the Holden ads would at least make me go look at one and test drive it.

Ford are a little off the mark with their advertising and we will continue to see that with the Sales figures until they land on a winner.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by puts99

I'm glad you're not in charge of Ford Australia.

The facts are, cash buyers ready to buy a Falcon on the spot are being turned away because there are none avaliable.

That is not good for business, no matter what kind of spin you put on it.

No, I'm glad you’re not in charge of Ford Australia!!

Business is not that simple as you have made it! Increasing the line rate & selling more falcons does not automatically mean more profit. Just ask Holden!!


Also, under suppling the market increases brand strength. All of a sudden the Ford products are hard to get & anything that is hard to get betters worth more. Might even move some buyers to 2nd hand, increasing resale values, less cars for fleets, again increasing resales.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Brazen

The thing is, every other car factory on the planet has the same issues with costs and logistics in producing cars, why is it that Ford AU is always excused for lack of production?

Valid point, and here is my spin on it......

Ford Oz have taken a VERY conservative stand that a car is not built until someone has bought it. In the old days Ford would make x number of silver xr6's and some ego territorys knowing that they will eventually find a customer. Nowadays, unless you order a sihouette, cashmere leather G6ET, it will not be built. They are trying their hardest to fulfil current orders but outside problems have stopped broadmeadows a few times now. On the upside, I am told that TGW ( thing's gone wrong ) are at their lowest levels ever. Congrats Ford.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Business is not that simple as you had made it! Increasing the line rate & selling more falcons does not automatically mean more profit. Just ask Holden!!


Also, under suppling the market increases brand strength. All of a sudden the Fold products are hard to get & anything that is hard to get betters worth more. Might even move some buyers to 2nd hand, increasing resale values, less cars for fleets, again increasing resales.

Moreso, ask Holden how many puckered up bums there was in head office when 15,000 Commodores were sitting on grass???? A friend of my mothers who is a receptionist at the local Holden dealer was able to receive employee pricing on a VE International and paid 30K DRIVE AWAY!!!!!!

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

On the upside, I am told that TGW ( thing's gone wrong ) are at their lowest levels ever. Congrats Ford.

This is another thing that I dont understand. The VE Commodore would no doubt have to be one of the worst models out of Commodores or Falcons for a long time regarding reliability. Riddled with problem after problem. Yet people keep buying the things :

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

This is another thing that I dont understand. The VE Commodore would no doubt have to be one of the worst models out of Commodores or Falcons for a long time regarding reliability. Riddled with problem after problem. Yet people keep buying the things :

FLEETS keep buying them.... 75% of commodore sales are to fleets.
The Falcon is the private sale car of choice.

[XR Martin]

I suspect its a long term strategy.
Seen the resale on FGs lately? Alot better than VEs.
Short term it doesnt really mean anything, but long term it helps with desirability.
Look at the Corolla for example, you can buy a brand new one, and sell it 3 years later and only loose a couple of grand. If people arnt going to loose a bucket load when it comes time for resale, more people will be interested long term.

Like someone said earlier, with a new model a few months away, they dont need a massive stockpile of older models sitting around needing to be heavily discounted to shift (thus effecting resale)

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

FLEETS keep buying them.... 75% of commodore sales are to fleets.
The Falcon is the private sale car of choice.

Well that would explain a few things.

[XR8putts]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

When did you last buy a new Falcon?
I did last week, Dealers have plenty enough stock to supply just about any model to a customer that "desperate" for a car they cant wait for MTO...
Anyone desperate enough to HAVE to get a car now will take what's avaliable...
Ford customers have it relatively good, we waited over 3 months for our 2010 Mazda CX7 to be delivered.
If you really have your heart set on a particular car you'll wait.

Oh, ask any Millionaire, Profit is king over market share at a loss....

I'm only relaying a scenario that a family member found himself in when he tried to buy a Falcon.

I never said he was desperate for a Falcon, but he rocked up to the dealer ready to buy one. That is exactly the same thing though isn't it? A sale is a sale, both mean the same ammount of $ for Ford.

Most people are not desperate for any car, most will buy based on a number of things. You make it sound as if Ford should only sell to those willing to wait? They're not selling Aston Martins, alot of people will not wait two months for a Falcon. If Ford don't mind losing these 'impaitent customers', then I believe this is a big mistake.

This is my opinion on the matter anyway.

[4Vman]

Does anyone know what the MTO wait is on a Falcon at the moment?

[russellw]

The first set of graphical data and commentary for February has now been uploaded to the Tech Area.

Cheers
Russ

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by russellw

The first set of graphical data and commentary for February has now been uploaded to the Tech Area.

Just looking at that data, does anyone know how many Statesman/Caprice Holden export to the middle east?
They are down to around a combined 180-200 a month locally. The Fairlane/LTD got canned because it wasn't worth keeping on at around 150.

[Brazen]

Credit must be given to Holden though, a 4 year old Commodore up against giveaway XR6 and G6 LE Falcons still managed to increase sales 22%.

They are doing quite well too on the Sportwagon, not only are they selling 1200-1500 a month but they are making a fortune on them as well, the best Sportwagon deals I can get are still $3000-4000 more expensive than the equivalent sedans, so even if there is some sedan substitution going on, they are still $3 to 4 grand better off someone buying a wagon.

A little birdie told me a major rental company is considering making the Sportwagon the default 'large car' instead of the typical sedan due to fantastic resale and overwhelming customer satisfaction with the few Sporwagons they have on the fleet, kinda like Europe where you always get a wagon no matter what class of car you rent. Also one of the Aussie police forces is also considering going all-Sportwagon due to resale and extra utlity. Some govt auctions are showing Sportwagons $5000 more expensive than the same age Commodore sedan.

I reckon once the new interior and front end comes out, Holden will be doing very well.

Ford should kick some fleet goals too once the new LPG versions come out, the loss of a wagon is going to kill them though, they are already being outsold by a Hyundai i30 as it is.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Seen the resale on FGs lately? Alot better than VEs.

VE has also been around for 4 years versus the FG's 2.

In any event, it's another month on, and still the same story. Get your act together Ford. I don't care whether its line rate, supply issues or the phases of the moon, whatever it is, fix it. Pathetic sales of the local volume selling Fords will give Dearborn one more reason to close our plant and one less reason to fight for it.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

VE has also been around for 4 years versus the FG's 2.

In any event, it's another month on, and still the same story. Get your act together Ford. I don't care whether its line rate, supply issues or the phases of the moon, whatever it is, fix it. Pathetic sales of the local volume selling Fords will give Dearborn one more reason to close our plant and one less reason to fight for it.

Yeah but compare a 2yo Calais V V8 against a G6ET. Despite the Ford being 10% cheaper new, they are atleast 10-15% more expensive 2nd hand.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by snappy

What does it cost to have the production line running for a extra day . Have a guess , im guessing hundreds of thousands . Not included benefits
On that same day how many cash buyers do you think ford dealers would get .
Without out a specific orderin mind as in G6 in blue with premium sound and leather/safetypack tow ball or etc .
Are you just supposed to have every colour every combination just sitting there just incase.

If you have a serious buyer who wants a certain vehicle not in stock,
dealers will usually check other dealer inventories and arrange a transfer.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Credit must be given to Holden though, a 4 year old Commodore up against giveaway XR6 and G6 LE Falcons still managed to increase sales 22%.

They are doing quite well too on the Sportwagon, not only are they selling 1200-1500 a month but they are making a fortune on them as well, the best Sportwagon deals I can get are still $3000-4000 more expensive than the equivalent sedans, so even if there is some sedan substitution going on, they are still $3 to 4 grand better off someone buying a wagon.

A little birdie told me a major rental company is considering making the Sportwagon the default 'large car' instead of the typical sedan due to fantastic resale and overwhelming customer satisfaction with the few Sporwagons they have on the fleet, kinda like Europe where you always get a wagon no matter what class of car you rent. Also one of the Aussie police forces is also considering going all-Sportwagon due to resale and extra utlity. Some govt auctions are showing Sportwagons $5000 more expensive than the same age Commodore sedan.

I reckon once the new interior and front end comes out, Holden will be doing very well.

Ford should kick some fleet goals too once the new LPG versions come out, the loss of a wagon is going to kill them though, they are already being outsold by a Hyundai i30 as it is.

See everyone says Sportwagon or Territory - not both but I keep wondering
why Ford can't do both and pick up a few more high series XR and G series sales..

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

See everyone says Sportwagon or Territory - not both but I keep wondering
why Ford can't do both and pick up a few more high series XR and G series sales..

Two competitive products can suck people into the showroom. Even though the Sportwagon has been doing really well the Captiva has been setting sales records since the Sportwagon has arrived.

Likewise 6 years ago when the Territory arrived, a few months after the Territory's launch the Falcon wagon had its best sales in years.

Two complementary products can draw people into the showroom so that they end up leaving with one.

[snappy]

Originally Posted by kezzer

Nope, I said something along the lines of 'only change in 4 years is a better engine, how they still sell these things is beyond me' something close anyway. My posts aren't pro-holden, it was just anti-aurion lol.

So, the question is, is ford making a bigger profit then Holden at the moment? I thought both companies were selling cheaply last year, I picked up mine fairly cheap, well compared to retail anyway. But 10k?? :togo: How cheap do fleets pick these cars up for anyway?

Either way i personally dont care if your pro holden. I quite enjoy the conversations it creates .
I could not tell you if ford making more cash then holden . I do know that both companies were in the red last year . But ford had a lot of one of expenditures due to the new model and holden were selling 1-2 thousand cars more a month . An both had losses around 2-300k

Holden weren't selling cars for exactly 10k cheaper but the were selling cars for around 6k less with leather,alloys and other stuff which added up to about 4k .
Ford didn't discount at all but they did offer extra's again like leather etc.
As fair a fleets go i would depend on how many your buying i guess not everyone would be paying the same .

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by jpd80

If you have a serious buyer who wants a certain vehicle not in stock,
dealers will usually check other dealer inventories and arrange a transfer.

Does a Ford dealer have access to the entire Ford inventory across all dealers or only dealers in their 'dealer network'? I'd suggest probably the latter.

I know Volkswagen were like that when I bought my Golf. If one Ford dealer doesn't show stock in the car you want, would probably pay to ring around.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Does a Ford dealer have access to the entire Ford inventory across all dealers or only dealers in their 'dealer network'? I'd suggest probably the latter.

I know Volkswagen were like that when I bought my Golf. If one Ford dealer doesn't show stock in the car you want, would probably pay to ring around.

I am currently in the process of buying a Mazda 6 diesel wagon. My dealer doesnt have one so he looked up in the system who did. He could tell me how many were where and what colour. Even how many in each state. But I am going to go for the facelifted model that is arriving in around May. I cant see why it would be any different for Ford.