Govt considering new Bull Bar rules

[uranium_death]

My mate has a 4WD and he goes camping several times a year and loves his 4WD'ing.
He damaged the underside of his car doing so...as a result, he has to get a bash plate installed on the back of his car...

He has a bullbar. He has never needed it because he doesn't drive like a peckerhead and has never been involved in an accident.

I am frustrated by silly little women that drive aggressively in their bulls when they clearly don't need one!

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Lol no your supposed to swerve to miss them...

Lol, many years ago, I was working for a tanker mob in Melbourne when I did a trip to Mt Isa WITH NO BULL BAR. I can’t remember how many I hit but they were like bloody blowflies. When I got to Longreach and had a phone signal, I told the boss I’d hit a few roos. This clown went off his rocker and when I arrived back in Melbourne, I was told to “drive accordingly” hmm. I told this idiot boss that the roos actually hit me. Anyone would think that I drove off the road and 100 metres into a paddock to get one of the bastards.

I’ll never forget the looks on the faces of the people at the Mount when they saw a truck come into town with no bar on it. It must have been a first for many of them.

Originally Posted by barnz_xr8

jez i actually work at arb on a break press bending up bullbars, well i guess if acurrent affair or today tonight get a wiff of this just like that hoon scape goating "sigh" . il be out of the job along with the other couple of thousand people in the 4x4 accessory buisness, hey i have a better idea maybe every body should start wearing bubble wrap suits or speed limit all cars to 10 kmh lol,

Airbags, mate. They’re the answer to everything, I just can’t remember what the question was but either way, it must have been a stupid one.

Soon you’ll be making special airbags for bull bars, lol.

[ToCo]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Perhaps you should instead look where you are going?

I've ridden across Australia a dozen times, around Australia in 15 days and managed not to hit anything... Amazing what not having a bullbar does for your concentration... Perhaps we need to get rid of them so people don't drive with the false sense of security that provide, as if it is okay to be so completely unaware to your surroundings as to hit a cow at 100km/h...

Haha good onya mate, you weren't riding around Australia on your high horse were you?
To say that these people aren't looking where they are going is just crap, I think maybe you just got lucky....
I live in a rural area, have to drive through about 5km of bush and I regularly see animals making their way onto the road, and if they decide to come into the path of my car there is nothing that I can do about it, it has nothing to do with where I was looking, if they run at the car, they will get hit. Simple as that.
I also doubt that the people that have bullbars installed on their car would just freely let the animals hit their car just because they have a bullbar on.

To think of banning these things is stupid IMO they provide safety to the drivers of the cars. I do believe that they aren't needed in the city (unless someone is traveling in from the country)
People should just watch where they are walking... easy.

[J_Putz]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Living in a rural area with all the stray cattle,kangaroos,ect on the roads
I wouldnt be without a bullbar
I hit a cow headon at 100Ks on an out back road if it wasnt for the bullbar i wouldnt be here,or perhaps a para/quadraplegic

Is it really the bullbar that does the damage or the extra 3 tonne of 4x4 pushing it ???

Seriously some desk jockies do lack sunshine

How could you not see a cow?
Im beginning to think the makers of that RACQ add weren't being sexist after all.

[J_Putz]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

im all for bull bars when theyre needed, but all too often you see people driving round the city with stupidly oversized bull bars on holden utes and 4wd's.

i say ban them, but make exceptions for people that can prove they regularly drive in areas that need them.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by ToCo

Haha good onya mate, you weren't riding around Australia on your high horse were you? .

LOL, I will pay that one :-)

Seriously though, I think a lot of people just think oh I have a bullbar so I just will hit them when surely someone should be alert enough to take evasive action and travel to the conditions, as in, if their is wildlife about then you go slower. And of course I realise they come out in front of you, beside you etc. and have of course have experienced this more times than I can quote. Including in my native WA those peabrained bird, the emu who change direction in a way that seems to defy physics. I don't really have the choice of hitting them, so try and ensure I don't.

As for in the city people should look where they walk, of course they should, but do you think you are absolved from liability if you are not aware enough to take evasive action when something happens...? Or are you of the school of thought that I have right of way because I have a big bullbar and I won't be hurt and they are in the wrong so they deserve it anyway.

[302 XC]

Mcnews,
Yeah thanks for your pointer
Maybe do you perhaps think the owner of the stray cattle would have the decentcy to actually keep his cattle within his property ???
This cattle owner has copped more fines from the council for straying cattle and caused a few accidents over the years
If my dog runs out from my property i get roasted from the council
But ill watch where im goin

[302 XC]

J Putz,
How could i not see the cow ???
Good question glad you asked
Do you not have left/right hand bends on roads where you live ???
Just straight roads are they ???
Left hand bend doin 100Ks on an outback road
Come around the corner , then oops
Cattle truck on the otherside he hit 1 cow we hit the other
Not many options there
Hit the cow,hit the cattle truck or go of an 60-80 Foot drop
You have a micro second to think
Oops times up

Its all good and comment from a chair or after the fact

[Brazen]

Living in SW QLD, and doing a lot of driving between here and Adelaide, Brisbane and even Sydney I have a roo bar fitted to the front of the car (nudge bar really, on a VE)and even though I often encounter roos on the road I stll think the proliferation of bull bars is insane in the capital city areas. I swear half of the city based Pajeros, Prados and Landcruisers would have to have the bull bars. When I have hit roos in the past in cars without a bull bar, the car had still had been drivable anyway.

These vehicles are already higher, heavier and more cumbersome than passenger cars and adding rigid stiff bar-work to the front makes them needlessly more dangerous in a pedestrian or vehicle crash. Considering the small small percentage that actually need them, it certainly means there a lot of cars running around more dangerous than they need to be. I have come across a crash of a bullbar wearing Landcruiser into the side of an Excel, the bull bar hits just at head height of the other car, it wasnt pretty.. Stupid to see on a sububan street.
Of course there are exceptions to every rule, and Im sure they will be 15 million people now stating they are dodging elephants on their way to work.

Also travelling OS a bit, the bull bar seems to be a uniquely Australian thing, even though you get some big animals overseas, buffalo, bison, moose...

I think a lot of its **** factor, and its a pretty selfish. Its funny as occupants of cars we demand every safety and impact mitigating feature we can get, but to hell to the people on the outside.. its darwin awards.. serves them right...blah blah blah.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by J_Putz

How could you not see a cow?

Easy, I’ll give you a very simple explanation.

Cows are usually dark in colour. They are not painted in Gloss paint and their hide doesn’t reflect light very well.

After day, follows night. Night time is usually dark and cows tend to go were the warmth is at night. Guess where that is, yep, the bitumen road surface where they lay down to sleep.

Roads are not always straight and have many curves, undulations and uneven sections.

So one night when you’re driving down the highway in the middle of nowhere and all of a sudden there’s something asleep on the road that you couldn’t possibly see, your lights didn’t refect off it and before you know it, whammo, you’ve hit a cow.

[Rastus]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Easy, I’ll give you a very simple explanation.

Cows are usually dark in colour. They are not painted in Gloss paint and their hide doesn’t reflect light very well.

After day, follows night. Night time is usually dark and cows tend to go were the warmth is at night. Guess where that is, yep, the bitumen road surface where they lay down to sleep.

Roads are not always straight and have many curves, undulations and uneven sections.

So one night when you’re driving down the highway in the middle of nowhere and all of a sudden there’s something asleep on the road that you couldn’t possibly see, your lights didn’t refect off it and before you know it, whammo, you’ve hit a cow.

Careful what we say here! The pen pushing powers that be might legislate that all cattle & horses will have to be draped in some sort of HiVis arrangement, with them then being able to say "You don't need a bullbar, you can see them a mile away". Roo's, Camels & Emu's might be a little a harder to solve though.

[my_gxl]

People have a highly developed brain (or are meant to), and and know road rules (insert same note here).

I have however seen dogs with more road sense than people.

When animals can get a license, we will ban bull bars.

I do remember seeing a pig learning to fly somewhere.

[ToCo]

Originally Posted by mcnews

LOL, I will pay that one :-)

Seriously though, I think a lot of people just think oh I have a bullbar so I just will hit them when surely someone should be alert enough to take evasive action and travel to the conditions, as in, if their is wildlife about then you go slower. And of course I realise they come out in front of you, beside you etc. and have of course have experienced this more times than I can quote. Including in my native WA those peabrained bird, the emu who change direction in a way that seems to defy physics. I don't really have the choice of hitting them, so try and ensure I don't.

Oh no doubt the drivers should be alert when they are in areas that have increased wildlife populations, the thing is that, as you would know it it just impossible to not hit them some times.
I have been in numerous arguments with my mother over this subject, she constantly says, I am going too fast and that I will hit an animal. I have said to her that you could be going 40km/h and still hit one... She disagreed..
But on night on a drive home I was in the passenger seat and mother was driving she saw a wallaby run out into the road, she was doing about 50km/h and BAM, another one bites the dust.
These animals are as dumb as they come, they will change direction for no reason and sometimes into the path of traffic, and on the tight roads down here I would rather hit them that swerve to the other side to avoid it.

Originally Posted by mcnews

As for in the city people should look where they walk, of course they should, but do you think you are absolved from liability if you are not aware enough to take evasive action when something happens...? Or are you of the school of thought that I have right of way because I have a big bullbar and I won't be hurt and they are in the wrong so they deserve it anyway.

I will always do the best to avoid an accident, in no way would I continue on a path that would involve myself and others in an accident, even if it is their fault.
These arguments end up always coming back to the way the driver thinks/acts, be it drink driving, speeding, or bullbars...

Keep em on I say!!!

[J_Putz]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Easy, I’ll give you a very simple explanation.

Cows are usually dark in colour. They are not painted in Gloss paint and their hide doesn’t reflect light very well.

After day, follows night. Night time is usually dark and cows tend to go were the warmth is at night. Guess where that is, yep, the bitumen road surface where they lay down to sleep.

Roads are not always straight and have many curves, undulations and uneven sections.

So one night when you’re driving down the highway in the middle of nowhere and all of a sudden there’s something asleep on the road that you couldn’t possibly see, your lights didn’t refect off it and before you know it, whammo, you’ve hit a cow.

Thank you for being respectful in your post. Too often people have tantrums when these types of conversations occur on FF.com.au.
But if you're driving on a road with many curves, undulations and uneven sections you should be driving to suit those conditions.
You wouldn't catch me speeding around a corner at 100km an hour if whatever's on the other side is concealed from my vision. Not in a hundred years.
Defensive Driving is defined as "driving to save lives, time, and money, in spite of the conditions around you and the actions of others." It is the standard Safe Practices for Motor Vehicle Operations.
I am a professional driver and witness how this method saves lives on a daily basis.

And for the record I think bullbars definitely have their place.
But as I hope FF.com.au were able to deduce from the Animal Farm picture, only allowing some people to have them would be completely ludicrous.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

im all for bull bars when theyre needed, but all too often you see people driving round the city with stupidly oversized bull bars on holden utes and 4wd's.

i say ban them, but make exceptions for people that can prove they regularly drive in areas that need them.

Most of the people you see in the city with bullbars probably do drive rural roads often.
Not everyone can afford a car for each occasion, so when a rural driver needs to go to the city, they take their only car which happens to be a 4x4, which happens to have a bullbar.



This next part of my post is aimed at no one in particular.
THIS MORNING ALONE I almost hit 1 kangaroo, 4 rabbits and a fox. PLUS I saw another few kangaroos off the side of the road in the bush that could of very well came onto the road suddenly. Yes I had a 4x4 with a bullbar and I felt safe driving these country roads at 230am with the bullbar. Ok now fast forward a few hours to 1100am this morning. I was driving in the middle of Newcastle in the same 4x4 with the same bullbar.... ....what do you expect me to do pullover when approaching the city and pull off the bull bar and put it in the boot??? Or just have no bullbar at all and risk hitting all these random animals and risk turning up in the city in a wooden box?

If you were stupid enough to step off the gutter in front of me I think the bull bar will be the least of your worries. I'm sure the other 2600kgs of vehicle will squash you well enough.

[Dezza]

Originally Posted by barnz_xr8

jez i actually work at arb on a break press bending up bullbars, well i guess if acurrent affair or today tonight get a wiff of this just like that hoon scape goating "sigh" . il be out of the job along with the other couple of thousand people in the 4x4 accessory buisness, hey i have a better idea maybe every body should start wearing bubble wrap suits or speed limit all cars to 10 kmh lol,

I didn't know there were anyone else from ARB here! I'd be in the same boat as I'm in the ARB polyurethane department, making buffers and various trim pieces for bullbars. Yet more government pen pushers with no idea whatsoever.

[mik]

it`s a bit naive to think you can drive to conditions and avoid everything, if any one could do that we would`nt need insurance would we.

[vanman_75]

some very real and pathetic posts in this thread ,you are argueing about a bullbar and its potential damage to what ... i ask, hitting another car your stuffed on any level if the bar is the problem , the bullbar on my car saved my bank account ten fold , hundred plus roos ,emus , pigs and yes a cow . you wont see them even if your super observent .i ride bikes and avoid night driving like the plague .swerving is the most dangerous thing you could ever do ,and this drive to conditions balony i dont see many cars at night driving at 50 kmh so where and when do you drive makes me think you dont drive much at all .

[svo supporter]

I have one fitted to one of my cars and I'm a city slicker.

This has saved the front of my car from being damaged and I was parked at the time. Some P plater reversed into it. Made a mess of there car and mine is still the same as it was when I stopped.

Before we get the speil about the car being repaired. The front of my car has been modified. Modified bonnet, flutes grafted in the guards, a mixed up batch of paint that was made by throwing different colours together willy nilly. So it saved by plenty of time and money by having it fitted.

[vanman_75]

This sorry just boils my blood , dogooders with nothing better to do , gee ban trucks (to big) ban dark cars ( hard to see ) ban everything heck get rid of your sharp knifes you may cut a finger off ...society today is getting worse by the week . but it will come and we will lose a lot more if it keeps going .sad...very sad

[jpd80]

Very strange, the Euro safety rules have to do with pedestrian being struck and slapped into bonnet,
I think the jist is that the bull bar might break them in two but most 4WDs are a lot higher than sedans...

I think some egg head trying to harmonize ECE rules with ADRs has had a serious brainfart.....

[04redxr8]

This is a European idea. If they like this so much, why not take Amsterdams approach to the drug and sex industries too?

I personally don't care either way about bullbars, but I really believe the time is long overdue for people to be responsible for their own actions. We need to stop protecting idiots from themselves.

Oh and BTW, I think it is illegal to swerve to avoid an animal. May be State relevant only, but I am sure some States have a law against this practise. Swerving to avoid an animal on the road can sometimes put other road users in danger.

[my_gxl]

Natural selection means dumb people meet sad ends.

The Darwin awards are a great thing.

These concepts and bullbars must be linked

[JaguarDave]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Seriously though, ....................And of course I realise they come out in front of you, beside you etc. and have of course have experienced this more times than I can quote. Including in my native WA those peabrained bird, the emu who change direction in a way that seems to defy physics. I don't really have the choice of hitting them, so try and ensure I don't.

I guess you've just been a lucky Temporary Australian so far but the strongest advice I can give you is don't get too caught up in your belief in your own ability to avoid things that pop out on to the road.

We had a very well known and experienced local motorcyclist die out here in 2009 in an incident with a roo and there's plenty of confirmed reports of others around the country who died under similar circumstances either from the impact or from being knocked off and thrown under a passing car/truck, do you think those people didn't plan on missing those furry pests just like you do?

The other problem in the higher speed country areas is that often people in cars (bull-barred or not) try to swerve to miss the animal leading to a loss of control and going off the road or worse, hitting an oncoming car head on. Swerving to miss at speed is not the recommended action.

If an animal comes out in front of me I go straight on in whether I'm in my bullbarred ute or in my non bullbarred luxo barges. Prefer it to be in the bull-barred car though cos there's a chance of less damage. I'll use the brakes hard if I can but I will not swerve.

You never know what roos will do. I even had one jump across my roof one day while driving down a dirt road out here where the bank on one side is higher than the road.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Unless the Feds add a new ADR I dont see how it could regulate "state" road rules.
Its a pity there isnt a link to where the "rumour" comes from?

A) "The states" can maintain unique allowances, though they try to keep things uniform by mutual agreement, these days.

B) Australia's ongoing harmonization with The Global Technical Regulations for land transport, administered by the UN. Can't see any ban, they do emphasize 'pedestrian friendly' as possible.

NT News scare scare stuff, Scruby would be delighted.

[AC/DC]

Good Idea..... get rid of em off city cars and suv's.

[GTP owner]

Just a couple of point i would add to this discussions. Firstly is that we need to accept that bull-bars are dangerous to passengers and other smaller vehicles in a side collision. Given that there are increasing numbers of pedestrians being run over and killed (because cars are too quiet and pedestrians can be stupid) there will be measures put in place to reduce this "significant carnage" as your local politician and ACA will call it. So they will pick on a minority group that looks dangerous and potentially is (just like they do with hoons) and proceed to remove them from the road and force them into camries.

But pen pushers in cities do not drive out where the animals are - they see them pent up in zoos and think they are cute and harmless. Out in the country you save money by using a bullbar. I prefer to drive our 4x4 at night because of the wallaby and possum population. McNews - sorry, but you do not swerve to avoid wildlife. If I am towing my race car back from the drags, a swerve will wipe us all out. And if I travel at a speed to be able to avoid every possible animal I will be travelling at 40km/h. But the way things are going for speed limits around here, that will be just a matter of time. But even then at 40 you can kill wildlife. I have a 600m driveway and usually manage to kill a possum or wallaby per month coming up it doing far less than 60km/h.

So with gun laws being tighter than ever before, animal rights groups preventing export of native animal meat and hides, there is a massive number of animals around. A bullbar stops the damage to my vehicle.

I also use my 4x4s off road, and use the bull bar to protect the front from damage on overgrown fire trails.

So I think that they should not necessarily be banned, but there should be some curtailing of their use on urban soccer mums who use them for the bling factor.

[Fled74]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

even better.. ban stupid people from breathing......

Or breeding...

[cheap]

I have a 4WD with a bull-bar, I promise I will never ever drive my 4WD anywhere in Europe. Problem solved!

I wish these Europeans would stick to what they do best, social re-engineering, gay love rights, massive budget deficits and generally going down the drain. Secretly they're all waiting for the next fascist to try and gain control, start some crisis which the rest of the world then has to sort out.

Australia simply needs to look at Europe as an example of how bureaucracy has gone mad, self-serving, non-working implosion of society . Sadly the European buffoons make so much noise that our Canberra fools seem left wanting and implement this imported stupidity.

[3vXT]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

So one night when you’re driving down the highway in the middle of nowhere and all of a sudden there’s something asleep on the road...

I can do better than that.

A few years ago I was driving home from work, around 3 or 4am and seen about half a dozen naked people walking down the middle of the road. This was on the pacific highway between Karuah and Bulahdelah, not busy at that time of the morning but certainly not an empty back road out in the sticks. It was probably 10 or 15K's from town, there were no cars on the side of the road or anything (and that wouldn't explain why they had their bits out anyway) though there was a house or two nearby.

I had plenty of time to see them so I slowed right up and drove around them, they just kept walking up the centre line in a little group. I should have went back and asked them wtf was going on but I was a little freaked out to be honest.

Anyway, nothing to do with bullbars but something to consider