The ultimate question

[mik]

they will probably set the hp for the coyote to the safe level as the f6 is to prevent destroying the driveline anyway, so it will be close imo.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by mik

they will probably set the hp for the coyote to the safe level as the f6 is to prevent destroying the driveline anyway, so it will be close imo.

A pd blown V8 means instant torque. The I6T is relatively subtle off idle, so they can't make it the same because, inherently, they would both have a distinct type of power delivery. If they were to do as you say they may as well not use a blower.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

That's the point we're making, you put it well and there's no argument over this; Consistency in the two methods of testing.

I also see we're you're coming from; to be 0.5 second quicker would mean there's a substantial difference in power over the F6. At this level you can't gain 1/2 a second without a serious power hike.

Also, assuming there's a new, better tyre used across the whole range at time of Miami's launch they will need to test the (newly tyred) F6 with it to gain a fair comparison. Apples for apples. Old F6 would become invalid.

(Basing it off press tests) I'll have a guess and say both entry level FPV V8 (XR8/GS/whatever) and the GT would be neck and neck to 100km/h, 4.9 seconds. To 400 metres the GT will crack it in 12.7 (+/-0.05), two tenths ahead of the cheaper V8 model.

It's for this reason I can't vote as that would be less than the "smash it by over 0.5 seconds", but a fair bit more than a "a tiny bit quicker".

Some good points youssef. I voted 'GT a tiny bit quicker' and while i haven't fully convinced myself i'll stand by it. Its a tough one because of other changes RE tyres, rear end etc. (and do F6 get the same changes, or just some of them??). But, end of the day, the coyote SC engine is an extra litre, also forced induction and importantly, within an error margin of a few kg, NO HEAVIER. THis is one of the biggest issues with the current BOSS vs F6 debate and the coyote avoids it big time.

Moreover, while the F6 power numbers are 'underquoted' the GT SC V8 numbers are also likely to be well over badge figures. In fact, i'd say a F6 I6T probably has in true kw/nm the same as the quoted GT badge numbers.....so work it out that way.....

The only way the F6 has a chance is if the power delivery is such that the extra kw/nm of the GT are wasted in a very poor launch. Then the F6 may match or even slightly beat the V8 to 100. But, the F6 will lose the quarter regardless.....

As big a fan as i am of the I6(turbo or NA) the coyote has it beat. I don't think most people (including on AFF) realise what we are dealing with here. This V8 is going to blow people away....

[The Monty]

Bundy, the V8's ran 10.8's.

[MexicanBatman]

well isnt the quickest stock F6 12.3?

i doubt the V8 will see where it went and struggle to pull a high 12, maybe even have to stop for petrol half way down the 1/4 LOL

real strip times here not magazine ****************, they dont count...

[mik]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

A pd blown V8 means instant torque. The I6T is relatively subtle off idle, so they can't make it the same because, inherently, they would both have a distinct type of power delivery. If they were to do as you say they may as well not use a blower.

i dunno, the beuty i see in this engine at f6 power levels it should still be a ball tearer, from what we`ve seen it revs hard with low end torque as you said, and it`s lighter + like the turbo 6 this will be so easy to tweak , but i don`t think it would be a contest without the blower, too much fat too move for a smaller capacity.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by flappist

You guys do all realise that the voting is set to public so everyone can see who voted what don't you?

As ALL polls should be..

[Chopped]

The faster car will be which ever one FPV wants it to be.

I'm hoping/guessing it will be the Supercharged V8. It's the new kid on the block and will have to impress. (That means beating the F6 and HSV's.)

[ZA-289]

Originally Posted by Chilliman

Where's the option that says "Who cares, as long as they both smash HSV"

Agreed, and I hope the supercharger whine is loud as hell.

[Transfiguring R]

I'm betting on the SC V8 being a bit faster. It'll make more torque than the F6, and probably more power too, and I'm not talking about badge figures.

It's too hard to know for certain how the V8 will turn out. Who knows how FPV are tuning the thing?

[auxr]

Grip - will be my prediction as to the main contributing factor as to who the overall winner will be - but hey, I'm still going for the blown V8.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by auxr

Grip - will be my prediction as to the main contributing factor as to who the overall winner will be - but hey, I'm still going for the blown V8.

Grip will only be an issue if the driver cant moderate their right foot....

All else being roughly equal if a less powerful car is faster than a more powerful car due to grip issues the problem is with the driver, not the car....

[WASP]

The F6 will get out of the hole faster. That's just the advantage a turbo car has over a PD application, especially considering the tyre they are likely to use. What happens from there is anyone's guess but I am willing to place my vote in the F6 corner, but only 'just' if compared to the entry level V8 (XR8). When it comes to the GT however, unless FPV dramatically change the spec from what it was going to be a month ago, the GT will have a clear advantage over both. I personally think it will own the turbo's (as they are today) literally everywhere within its rev range. There I said it.

[WASP]

Double post

[pottery beige]

Make the power.. shift the weight.. sorry girl's but if it make's more power and can put it all down.. bye bye F6.....

[burnz]

the v8 should have a holeshot advantage; thats "should"

[Fireblade]

If all turns out right, FPV will have 2 of the fastest production 4 doors ever built in Oz and possibly the world. My bet is the F6 will still beat it.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by turbo_man

how can anyone think that today? sure in the 70's the HO's were the fastest thing on roads but today how can they even think they're getting too fast when there are M5's and RS6's running around with 0-100 times in the low 4's and drag times in the 12's (and these are just based on a regular 5-series and A6)

You missed my point. One thing Audi RS6, Mercedes AMG and BMW M5 et al do not have to contend with in the same way as FPV and HSV is public opinion. They are considered exotic and out of the reach of the Joe Average, HSV and FPV are considered Aussie cars for Joe Average. If their performance openly beats the like of the M5, this could be seen as Australian manufacturers releasing cars with dangerous levels of performance on the general public. Claims of dangerous, irresponsible and "think of the children" will result and the performance sedan party will end.

Just think of the 70's for an example, we can get there again. FPV and HSV both know this and that is why I mentioned public perception, too much of an increase too fast draws too much attention from the fun police.

Hope that makes sense.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Chopped

The faster car will be which ever one FPV wants it to be.

I'm hoping/guessing it will be the Supercharged V8. It's the new kid on the block and will have to impress. (That means beating the F6 and HSV's.)

Spot on !

Based on keeping these things on the road without having schrapnel spitting out from behind the car, it's logical to assume that GT will be lineball if not slower than F6. State of tune - torque truncation and driveline ability to cope with "off the line" torque will ensure Coyote GT is "restrained".
The way the power is delivered is completely different in both cases.

Based on this I think people are confusing off the shelf performance with the engines actual ability.

Maybe on a DYNO the coyote would be 0.5 sec quicker.......LOL.
In the car it will be even stevens if not slower. I am VERY HAPPY to be proven wrong.....In fact I'm desperately hoping I will be.

At the end of the day, GT only needs to be at the same level as R8 to redeem itself from a marketing perspective.

[castellan]

I don't know what all the fuss is about with the drag race nonsence.
I dont think most people would buy such a car for that crap.

[auxr]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Grip will only be an issue if the driver cant moderate their right foot....

All else being roughly equal if a less powerful car is faster than a more powerful car due to grip issues the problem is with the driver, not the car....

Totally agree - but a poll's a poll and I'm still hoping that the coyote will be a smidgen quicker - here's me, whilst crossing my fingers behind my back

[Fireblade]

Originally Posted by castellan

I don't know what all the fuss is about with the drag race nonsence.
I dont think most people would buy such a car for that crap.

They are performance vehicles and as such are rated on their performance, which includes 400m times.

[vanman_75]

Originally Posted by castellan

I don't know what all the fuss is about with the drag race nonsence.
I dont think most people would buy such a car for that crap.

a whole new engine and whole new performance for the falcon and you write a post like that ...maybe you need to join a camry forum they are nice cars .

[schnoods]

Who is to say that the next F6 doesnt get a power upgrade or at least another power undersestimation too?

Blown GT for only just and i know its being picky but there would be a wider gap or maybe a result reversal depending on what gearbox would be run for either car.

All i can see is that its exciting times when a ford v8 owner is looking forward to the next offering that looks like keeping up with a turbo 6.

[auxr]

[QUOTE=schnoods]Who is to say that the next F6 doesnt get a power upgrade or at least another power undersestimation too?

Blown GT for only just and i know its being picky but there would be a wider gap or maybe a result reversal depending on what gearbox would be run for either car.

All i can see is that its exciting times when a ford v8 owner is looking forward to the next offering that looks like keeping up with a turbo 6.[/QUOTE]

I think that this hits the nail on the head quite nicely

[WASP]

Originally Posted by schnoods

All i can see is that its exciting times when a ford v8 owner is looking forward to the next offering that looks like keeping up with a turbo 6.

Oddly enough, my interest in the new GT staying in touch with the Turbo Fords is only relative to the turbo's being currently faster than the Holden/HSV offering.

[GT450]

i agree with those that said FPV will determine which it wants to be fastest. However i believe the 2/1 GT/F6 sales split may well change if the GT comes out with the hairiest chest. I believe a lot of F6 sales are down to the owners wanting bragging rights and not just because they would rather have a 6 than an eight. I think the Gt will win the new battle and as a result pick up sales from buyers who in the past who would have liked a V8 but just couldn't live with the fact it is the slower of the 2 cars. Personally i could care less it will always be the V8.
cheers
Gt450

[XR6Noir]

I do hope the 'Coyote' GT is a quick setup however it is funny to see some get high and mighty about displacement and quarter mile times when not that long ago, the party line was straight-line performance isn't everything and that times don't matter...

Not sure the F6 has as much of business case if a new V8 ticks all the boxes but is there something wrong with offering both?

I will look at updating to a new FPV but only after seeing some facts and taking a test drive...Everything looks good on paper so far...

[XR6Runner]

Well, seeing as with the new engine, the total weight drops by about 100kgs, that makes it lighter than the F6 and with more power than the F6, I must be faster!!

[Neeek]

I suspect Ford won't want the GT to be slower than the F6 - the current I6Ts have been handing the V8s ***** to them on a platter for a few years now (stock, unopened, etc) so they'll try to redress that balance, I suspect. Probably through gearing more than anything else.

Having said that I still reckon the 6 will beat the 8. Not by much, and I'm aware that this statement contradicts what I've written above, but it's what I reckon. We shall see.