FPV vs HSV sales

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

the harshest critics always seem to be the have nots...

have not owned, have no clue, have no idea...

Lol you forgot have not the money to buy one anyway.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

the harshest critics always seem to be the have nots...

have not owned, have no clue, have no idea...

Have no money....



I want my White GS, dammit.

[paulb351]

Originally Posted by The Snout

Pretty much what I was going to write.

Ford surrendered the performance market like a bunch of frightened school girls, meanwhile at the other end of the decade HSV starts up and sucks up all the orphaned customers and gets a decade + start on FPV . The HDT Brock Director was probably the best thing to happen to Holden in hindsight.

You have to take the good with the bad. And also part of Ford's heritage is it's abandonment of 1982.

So throw in bad Ford decisions, better range as mentioned above, head start on FPV. It's a combination over the last say 20-30 years which leads to HSV having a lead on FPV. IMO.

I'd like to add that with Ford out of the market HSV gains a lot of "for life" fans, something unique to the Australian market with very little cross over between Ford & Holden. As the old saying I subscribe to goes "I'd rather push my Ford than drive a Holden" which is very easily transposed the other way around...

I'm I guess old school Ford supporter, 10+ years of Holden/HSV new customers takes a lot to overcome...

[Nova 8]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

FORD Forum: A meeting or medium where ideas from Ford enthusiasts, with an absolute emphasis on Fords, can be exchanged without prejudice

so without prejudice... unless someone views are different to your own... then you will recieve prejudice.... Good to know

One would hope that even an enthisiast can see fault with what they like... but i guess you can't. And anyone who disagees doesnt belong.

[SM1DY]

Originally Posted by Nova 8

As someone who has just recent started driving a holden i am in complete amusement with the amount of moron FORD drivers there are that seem to have to prove themselve. Then again, as someone who use to drive magna's and still does like magna's you see both ford and holden drivers in the same light. Bogans who just go on about "the wrong wheels spinning" and even when the magna is faster they still just scuff that thier's is superior. The same BS in on both sides of all fences.


I personally am not a ford enthusist, I am a CAR enthusist. Be it ford or holden or any other car company, I enjoy driving and the bonds i have formed while driving with others. I have been drawn to this forum as my interest has led me to purchuse an XC falcon to rebuild BUT i drive a holden. As such i dont mind discussing holdens, I think its a decent car. It has its problems, Ill admit. But all cars do (including the current falcon) and i personally dont appriciate it being applied that im just a troll because I am willing to state what i think to be true on a public forum.


Forum: A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

Also issue with the holden is its too loud in the cabin, the pedals are 2" to the right too much, TERRIBLE on fuel, engine is unrefined, center console lid doesnt stay up, cup holders are utter crap, sprays itself with crap while driving, blind spots everywhere, TERRIBLE on fuel (worth mentioning again), speakers are crap, records three different speeds (digital, analog and average speed are all different by about 4km) and there's more i cant tihnk of. The ford should be outselling the holden but its not, hat off to holden on that one.

Maybe I should be more careful when posting on the forum from now on, because apparently I can't make a completely off the cuff comment without any substance and that defies reason, yet still have very few here take as gospel.

THOU SHALL ALL BOW DOWN BEFORE THE INCREDIBLE KNOWLEDGE OF THE ALMIGHTY SM1DY!!!

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Nova 8

so without prejudice... unless someone views are different to your own... then you will recieve prejudice.... Good to know

One would hope that even an enthisiast can see fault with what they like... but i guess you can't. And anyone who disagees doesnt belong.

Not getting it are you ......

You can like and discuss what ever you want with the guidelines you signed on for ...... but there will be 2 points of view and always be a bias ..... like it? Hang around ..... don't like it? Leave

It is the attitude that "I am a car enthusiasts so everyone MUST say a good word for other models ..... " Can anyone just be a FORD enthusiast these days or is that not politically correct????

Be a car enthusiast all you like ....... but at the end of the day ..... check the title of the Forum. It is not the 'ALL MODEL FORUM" Discuss other models b y all means but if someone disagrees (called having another opinion) you will be told. If you bag out Ford. You will be told.

If you want to reply ....... PLEASE take it to PM!!!!!!!!!

[Buntz]

81120 members. 120 Ford enthusiasts.

I can recognize Holden being GM's Australian flair in the nation, and making it's cars here. That's great. But it's still the enemy.

Anything not made by the blue oval, or certain exotics... are not worthy. And they usually also have their own dedicated forum with which to discuss.

[Chrisosicko]

Nothing beats the look on the face of the hsv u have just dusted in ur so called "rubbish" ford. As for sales It seems that most people my age (23) don't really no anything about the new unless they're a die hard ford fan. I wouldn't have known the new gt was supercharged if I didn't buy 1.

[greenfoam]

Not really related to the current GT but a good friend of mine is a highway patrol cop. He was talking to me today and told me the SS Commodore is a much better car at high speed than the FG turbo. He said at 100 they are both as good as each other.. at 200+ you better be in the Commodore if you don't want to die, he reckons in his experience there is no comparison when it comes to high speed safety and handling. He actually owns a VW 4wd as his personal car but is that impressed with the Commodore highway cars at work that he's talking about buying a new sportwagon.

For him it's all about handling not engines and he much prefers the Commodore, I thought that was interesting because I didn't imagine there would be that much difference between them.

[Nikked]

yes, because doing 200Km/h is relevent to the average HSV/FPV buyer.

[Terror_Tree]

I think the media has played a big part in this. Wheels mag as a good example, giving the VN Commondore car of the year!! It seemed like every time a new model Commondore came out it got car of the year and I would put money on the VF getting it as well. There is also the misconception that Holden is “More Australian” There are still people out there who think that Holden was a stand alone Australian company up to the 70’s, and if you dare say that the 48/215 was a discarded Chevrolet design you get howled down. Good on Holden marketing for pushing this image, but they are just a part of GM, as Ford Australia is part of Ford.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by greenfoam

Not really related to the current GT but a good friend of mine is a highway patrol cop. He was talking to me today and told me the SS Commodore is a much better car at high speed than the FG turbo. He said at 100 they are both as good as each other.. at 200+ you better be in the Commodore if you don't want to die, he reckons in his experience there is no comparison when it comes to high speed safety and handling. He actually owns a VW 4wd as his personal car but is that impressed with the Commodore highway cars at work that he's talking about buying a new sportwagon.

For him it's all about handling not engines and he much prefers the Commodore, I thought that was interesting because I didn't imagine there would be that much difference between them.

Hmm Highway Patrol at 200km/h...... better make sure that no one including any other police find out as many jobs have been lost and charges laid for doing just that.

Besides that HP cars have lights and other gizmos sticking out all over the vehicle which does REALLY strange things to the aerodynamics at speed so comparing them to a standard vehicle is somewhat irrelevant. (info from people who drive both HP and FPV/HSV/XR/SS)

I personally (not a mate of a mate who knows someone) have driven both commodores and Falcons over 200km/h many times, as have many of our NT members, and at 200 odd I found the FPV to be the more sure footed although at 240-250 it was started to feel mushy. The commodores were mushy maybe 30 or so below that. This does not mean they were "dangerous" just did not feel as "stable" and the aero effects were quite noticable.

On the other hand my datsun was perfectly stable at 200, 250 and even up to 267 (limiter was disabled).

For the majority of Australians this is really just academic as the only place other than on a track that you can legally exceed 110 is NT and at the moment the limit there is 130 (at the moment ).

[Fiesta_Man69]

Originally Posted by Nikked

yes, because doing 200Km/h is relevent to the average HSV/FPV buyer.

If the buyer of either car intends to take their car for an occasional track day I'd say it's quite relevant.

[HULK EF]

Although you look at total build numbers of all hsvs and fpv's ever produced and realistically. -there would be a heck of alot that never see a drag strip or track.
Most people just buy because of clever marketing and condioning to either being a HSV fan or FPV fan.

[EFFalcon]

Don't you get a performance drive day with purchase?

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

If the buyer of either car intends to take their car for an occasional track day I'd say it's quite relevant.

Yeah ill bet there is a very large % of either make that live near a track or go on one ... NOT.

People that buy them arent race car drivers and i doubt they will get pushed to 10/10th

[dimka100]

If a cop sais a cop must be right, I found arguing to be completely pointless ...

[HULK EF]

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

Don't you get a performance drive day with purchase?

-only new one's. -and isnt the course more about handling/cornering/braking rather than top speed "salt lake style"?

[EFFalcon]

Originally Posted by HULK EF

-only new one's. -and isnt the course more about handling/cornering/braking rather than top speed "salt lake style"?

All cars are 'new' at some point.. so :P

yes i'm sure its more biased towards the handling aspect, however my responce was more in reply to: "there would be a heck of alot that never see a drag strip or track. "

if its performed on a track, then the point goes out the window lol

[Fiesta_Man69]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Yeah ill bet there is a very large % of either make that live near a track or go on one ... NOT.

People that buy them arent race car drivers and i doubt they will get pushed to 10/10th

Of course. But a small % will still take their car to the track, and hence the relevance.

As has been pointed out, drive day promos are often included in the purchase of the car. Easy to get near 200 at Eastern Creek....

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Of course. But a small % will still take their car to the track, and hence the relevance.

As has been pointed out, drive day promos are often included in the purchase of the car. Easy to get near 200 at Eastern Creek....

I realise this.
But, this is only a once off and i doubt it will happen again with many cars. And im sure (No offense to owners) but the driver will reach their limit before the cars gets close to its limit.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Of course. But a small % will still take their car to the track, and hence the relevance.

As has been pointed out, drive day promos are often included in the purchase of the car. Easy to get near 200 at Eastern Creek....

FPV drive days they try and cap you to 160kmh with witchy poo hat chicanes on back straights...

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by DJM83

I realise this.
But, this is only a once off and i doubt it will happen again with many cars. And im sure (No offense to owners) but the driver will reach their limit before the cars gets close to its limit.

drive days are exactly that, to open your eyes up to what the car is capable of..

get into a skid, get out of a skid, crash avoidance etc..

crash avoidance was a big eye opener.. full ABS, big handfull lock.. wow just avoided a crash.....

[scottyg938]

from anyone that has looked into buying either FPV or a HSV, what sort of offers do they have to get you into one?
IE: are one side offering a nice low interest rate that might draw in more customers?

I've not looked into them, I don't really want to waste both the dealer and my time by having them run through the sales pitch on a car I know I can't afford right now

From here I see FPV throw in a track day, that would be an awesome experience but it might not appeal to all buyers (I know most buyers would be 'enthusiasts' that would like to take their car out and really see what it could do) my neighbour has an FG GT-P, lovely car but it has never seen a track, his wife drives it to work daily and his P plater son drives it occasionally.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

drive days are exactly that, to open your eyes up to what the car is capable of..

get into a skid, get out of a skid, crash avoidance etc..

crash avoidance was a big eye opener.. full ABS, big handfull lock.. wow just avoided a crash Did a sweet skid.....

Fixed that for ya

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

FPV drive days they try and cap you to 160kmh with witchy poo hat chicanes on back straights...

I had Luke Youlden drive my F6 with 350+rwkw easily over 200klm down the straights.
I was hanging on, plenty of locking up, its amazing how good these FPV's are when in experienced hands.

[VICFPV]

I think the current SC 5.0ltr will close the gap between them.
I came from the HSV camp and I ain't going back. No matter what they have.
Already onto my second FPV.

[1TUFFUTE]

I dont care what people say...the name HSV is nothing compared to the GT badge...much more desirable, historical among many things. FORD FALCON GT

[babyf6]

Off topic - have a look at some holden forums, you will find that we on AFF are a little bit more open-minded about which car is better (well thats what i have seen)
On topic - As much as i love FPV's (in particular - F6's which i plan to own oner day, whether they are still being made new when i can or not), you have to admit, HSV is alright. There isn't anything wrong with it, just FPV is better

[CR4ZYGT422]

Originally Posted by greenfoam

Not really related to the current GT but a good friend of mine is a highway patrol cop. He was talking to me today and told me the SS Commodore is a much better car at high speed than the FG turbo. He said at 100 they are both as good as each other.. at 200+ you better be in the Commodore if you don't want to die, he reckons in his experience there is no comparison when it comes to high speed safety and handling. He actually owns a VW 4wd as his personal car but is that impressed with the Commodore highway cars at work that he's talking about buying a new sportwagon.

For him it's all about handling not engines and he much prefers the Commodore, I thought that was interesting because I didn't imagine there would be that much difference between them.

In my opion your mate is a typical copper. Doesn't know much about anything. I know a lot of people that own c-dores, and most of their friends and family won't sit in the back seats because the ride makes them feel sick.
That to me is proof of how good the handling/ride is. FPV