April 2015 vfacts - Commodore 6th, Falcon nowhere

[Sprintey]

Maybe the market has noticed some of the shift? IIRC the Honda Jazz shifted to Thailand, suffered de-spec at the same time, then has shifted back to Japan? (Or has it not shifted back?)

Also interesting in the figures were the top 4 in the light segment, all Japanese, all up in % terms despite a falling segment:

"This segment held a much lower 9.07% of the total market in April but is well up compared to 2014 by 11.05% (+3,639). It’s mixed results for the contenders in the segment with the Toyota Yaris is up 17%, Mazda 2 up 5.3%, Suzuki Swift up 63.7% and the Honda Jazz up 91.3%. On the other side, Hyundai i20 is down 7.0%, Fiesta is down 25.3%, Barina down 8.5% and the Kia Rio down 28.5%.

And one last observation for Russell's comment of exactly when the SUV segment overtook the large segment:

"The final chart plots the combined SUV market share against that held by the large vehicle segment – easy to see where the change took place but also interesting to note that their trends have recently been somewhat inconsistent which is probably as much a reflection of consumer taste as anything else although combined SUV sales are now just over a third of the total market, currently 37.49%. "

The shift began in late '03 but definitely occurred by late '04 - guess which launch of radical (RWD and AWD, 5 or 7 seat) new SUV happened in that time? It was the Territory!

I think anyone who manufactures things would love to time a product to market at precisely the time of such a shift! Well done Geoff Polites! Of course, the question can be asked, "Was Territory itself the shift?"

[prydey]

Originally Posted by minheim

Imports are what made the local manufacturers actually add basic comfort features many decades ago and which have forced technological advance these days.

probably a good point, although i don't think its fair to say that the aussie made cars wouldn't have gone in that direction without the competition. the outside competition probably did force the issue somewhat.

i think it was true of all manufacturers back then. if you wanted premium features, you had to buy the larger models. a merc 180e was a pretty basic car, but if you paid the extra for a 420sel for example, you got a lot more for your money.

now manufacturers are loading all the cars up with features, regardless of where they sit in the company pecking order. small car buyers are treated the same as large car buyers and suv buyers.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by new2ford

I think its very disappointing because as shown in the table in my previous post, the European small Fords are basically the best German-built cars. And they are great cars overall. I don't know if Thai assembly would make any difference, but probably most of the market wouldn't be aware of that. Maybe the Ford brand is on the nose here in Australia?

Its been said before. If you have a DCT focus or Fiesta as we have you have got a car with a problem gearbox which Ford do not seem to have a long term solution for. Word of mouth has got out and the reputation of DCT Fords ahs been badly damaged.

If you are a manual driver in most brands you can buy a 6 speed manual with all its resultant benefits in fuel economy lowering rpm on teh highway etc etc. In focus and fiesta you can only buy a 5 speed.

Enough said.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by prydey

probably a good point, although i don't think its fair to say that the aussie made cars wouldn't have gone in that direction without the competition. the outside competition probably did force the issue somewhat.

i think it was true of all manufacturers back then. if you wanted premium features, you had to buy the larger models. a merc 180e was a pretty basic car, but if you paid the extra for a 420sel for example, you got a lot more for your money.

now manufacturers are loading all the cars up with features, regardless of where they sit in the company pecking order. small car buyers are treated the same as large car buyers and suv buyers.

Very true.
It used to take between 5 and 10 years before innovations that would debut on a S-Class to pass down to the C-Class.

In the last round of refreshes for those two models, it took less than 12 months.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by kevino

Its been said before. If you have a DCT focus or Fiesta as we have you have got a car with a problem gearbox which Ford do not seem to have a long term solution for. Word of mouth has got out and the reputation of DCT Fords ahs been badly damaged.

If you are a manual driver in most brands you can buy a 6 speed manual with all its resultant benefits in fuel economy lowering rpm on teh highway etc etc. In focus and fiesta you can only buy a 5 speed.

Enough said.

Yeah the gearbox is the reason...Oh how do you explain the I20 and Yaris sales figures with their 4 speed autos?

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by kevino

Its been said before. If you have a DCT focus or Fiesta as we have you have got a car with a problem gearbox which Ford do not seem to have a long term solution for. Word of mouth has got out and the reputation of DCT Fords ahs been badly damaged.

If you are a manual driver in most brands you can buy a 6 speed manual with all its resultant benefits in fuel economy lowering rpm on teh highway etc etc. In focus and fiesta you can only buy a 5 speed.

Enough said.

When I search the UK reliability index for Fiesta and Focus, gearbox issues figure at 0% for Fiesta and 3% for Focus!

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search/104
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search/106

Whatever the problem might be, it doesn't show up in the UK warranty repair scene.

[MrZ]

Originally Posted by russellw

.. and if you read it properly you would note that it excludes commercial vehicles otherwise a good portion of the top 20 would be filled with them.

Russ

Fair enough, but why don't you count commercial vehicles?

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by new2ford

When I search the UK reliability index for Fiesta and Focus, gearbox issues figure at 0% for Fiesta and 3% for Focus!

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search/104
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search/106

Whatever the problem might be, it doesn't show up in the UK warranty repair scene.

That would be because in the UK and Europe the vast majority drive manuals unlike here in OZ where most drive autos.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Imolator

That would be because in the UK and Europe the vast majority drive manuals unlike here in OZ where most drive autos.

I'm aware of that but the Reliability Index figures for the Fords are the same for autos or manual versions. In their language, "gearbox" means auto and "transmission" means manual.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by minheim

People aren't forced to drive 4 cylinders; they choose to. They may want economy or don't need the extra power of a bigger engine. Many 4 cylinders now produce more than adequate power for many people's needs and interior wise are not that much smaller than what were full size cars in years gone by. You can even buy a 4 cylinder falcon which many say is a better car than the traditional six it sells alongside. Imports are what made the local manufacturers actually add basic comfort features many decades ago and which have forced technological advance these days. Without import competition we still be "driving HR and XRs". These days the world is your oyster whether you want power, economy, size or a mixture and you need scale to compete in it.

I would not say it's imports that forced technological advances, it's the people who don't know any better, that are the problem mainly.
Look at the VB commodore or even the first RTS ?
Now why did that come about ?
Now we have rubbish like ABS, no one needs ABS unless one is just an idiot. sure there is a lot of idiots and ABS help idiot drivers, it can not help a good driver at all.

No one who is truly into cars would want a 4cyl or a 6cyl really now would they, sure some and I say only some 4 and 6 are good cars, the rest are just rubbish transport.
Some dude comes and says do you want to drive to Cains and then to Melbourne I can't think of a 4 cyl or 6 cyl car that I would love to do it in apart from a BMW M3.

[Joe5619]

And the Falcon still outsold Fiesta, Focus, Ecosport, Kuga... All these models get advertising dollars & are in segments that are going off.

[AUwindsor]

Originally Posted by castellan

I would not say it's imports that forced technological advances, it's the people who don't know any better, that are the problem mainly.
Look at the VB commodore or even the first RTS ?
Now why did that come about ?
Now we have rubbish like ABS, no one needs ABS unless one is just an idiot. sure there is a lot of idiots and ABS help idiot drivers, it can not help a good driver at all.

No one who is truly into cars would want a 4cyl or a 6cyl really now would they, sure some and I say only some 4 and 6 are good cars, the rest are just rubbish transport.
Some dude comes and says do you want to drive to Cains and then to Melbourne I can't think of a 4 cyl or 6 cyl car that I would love to do it in apart from a BMW M3.

dude, the "zoom zoom" adverts make em think they've got 1000hp

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by castellan

I would not say it's imports that forced technological advances, it's the people who don't know any better, that are the problem mainly.
Look at the VB commodore or even the first RTS ?
Now why did that come about ?
Now we have rubbish like ABS, no one needs ABS unless one is just an idiot. sure there is a lot of idiots and ABS help idiot drivers, it can not help a good driver at all.

No one who is truly into cars would want a 4cyl or a 6cyl really now would they, sure some and I say only some 4 and 6 are good cars, the rest are just rubbish transport.
Some dude comes and says do you want to drive to Cains and then to Melbourne I can't think of a 4 cyl or 6 cyl car that I would love to do it in apart from a BMW M3.

Eh? That logic could apply to any number of cylinders. Are you saying all V8s are good cars?
I can think of a number of 4cyl and 6 cyl cars I would drive to Cairns.
A hint of a few and only from Ford:
- EcoBoost Mondeo and Falcon
- Ford Focus (preference would be ST)
- Ford Fiesta (again my preference would be ST)
- Ford Ranger (any)
- Ford Falcon (preference G6E(T))
- Ford Territory

All are capable of transporting me to Cairns in comfort and ease and no v8 in sight.
You need to remember that back in the hey day people drove and not flew to these remote places in cars that were rubbish on the road, lacked the comfort and had to deal with terrible roads. Adding to this many of the V8s in the past had the same power some 4 cyl and 6 cyl cars have now. If i had the choice of car with a 6 it'd be a Porsche Cayman GTS or GT4.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by castellan

Now we have rubbish like ABS, no one needs ABS unless one is just an idiot. sure there is a lot of idiots and ABS help idiot drivers, it can not help a good driver at all.

.

Question: is this comment for real (which is beyond frightening) or are you being sarcastic?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by castellan

No one who is truly into cars would want a 4cyl or a 6cyl really now would they, sure some and I say only some 4 and 6 are good cars, the rest are just rubbish transport.

whilst your whole post is a bit neanderthal, its funny you still think cylinder count is an important factor.

just out of curiosity, what is your current car?

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Spammy

Question: is this comment for real (which is beyond frightening) or are you being sarcastic?

His comment does have a point. I have a car with ABS, and a car without it. I have never needed it. In an emergency I know how to release a lockup.

Edit: I do think ABS is a good thing, as most Aussies do not undertake any form of defensive/advanced driving course. They just put around in Autos and jam on the brakes when necessary.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by irish2

His comment does have a point. I have a car with ABS, and a car without it. I have never needed it. In an emergency I know how to release a lockup.

i'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that if you were in a real emergency, your natural instinct would override any 'ability' you think you may have.

one of the main benefits, if not THE main benefit of ABS is being able to swerve/steer whilst braking heavily, and maintain control. if your wheels are locked, you are going straight to the scene of the accident.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by castellan

I would not say it's imports that forced technological advances, it's the people who don't know any better, that are the problem mainly.

It's been going on for years, the Japanese in the 60's/70's where coming out with standard heaters, push button radios, bucket seats/floor shift as standard and that forced the big 3 here to follow suit.

Look at the VB commodore or even the first RTS ?
Now why did that come about ?

RTS was nothing more than marketing, just had different suspension settings.

Now we have rubbish like ABS, no one needs ABS unless one is just an idiot. sure there is a lot of idiots and ABS help idiot drivers, it can not help a good driver at all.

I'd say most drivers are ok but in a panic situation, will simply lean on the brakes hard as a normal reaction, therefore ABS is of benefit as is stability control and air bags as a supplementary device. A good driver (very subjective) will at the very least, be helped by that not so good drivers ABS functioning in an accident with them.

No one who is truly into cars would want a 4cyl or a 6cyl really now would they, sure some and I say only some 4 and 6 are good cars, the rest are just rubbish transport.
Some dude comes and says do you want to drive to Cains and then to Melbourne I can't think of a 4 cyl or 6 cyl car that I would love to do it in apart from a BMW M3.

There are heaps of good 4/6 cylinder cars and are extremely good transport!! Then there are some great ones too, exactly the same applies to V8's.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by prydey

i'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that if you were in a real emergency, your natural instinct would override any 'ability' you think you may have.

one of the main benefits, if not THE main benefit of ABS is being able to swerve/steer whilst braking heavily, and maintain control. if your wheels are locked, you are going straight to the scene of the accident.

I have been in an emergency. Again it was in a vehicle not equipped with ABS. I locked it up, and did exactly what I was trained to do. I was surprised how easy it came back in the instant it happened. I raised my heel whilst still braking (this lessens the pressure on the brake pedal enough to release the lock, but still allows a lot of force to be applied), steered around the dumb woman who turned across in front of me on an 80km/h road, and continued on. Afterwards my brother in law was as white as a ghost and just said "holy ****".

I am not some awesome driver, but going by how people talk up modern safety aids these days, I am just amazed anyone lived before the advent of ABS, EBD, Traction control, ESC, and all the rest...

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by new2ford

I'm aware of that but the Reliability Index figures for the Fords are the same for autos or manual versions. In their language, "gearbox" means auto and "transmission" means manual.

I'd question the relevance of the Focus as its the old model (2004) they had slush box autos. There is no listing there for the LW series with their dry clutch woes.

The Fiesta is listed from 2008 they used a slush box as well, whether they include the later model DCT's is anyones guess.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by irish2

I am not some awesome driver, but going by how people talk up modern safety aids these days, I am just amazed anyone lived before the advent of ABS, EBD, Traction control, ESC, and all the rest...

ummm, they didn't live!

have a look at the increased road traffic and the decrease in fatalities over the last 10 - 20 years or so. do you really think the reduction in fatalities is due to speed camera's etc? or perhaps it is due to the fact that cars have had a massive improvement in passive and active safety features.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by prydey

ummm, they didn't live!

have a look at the increased road traffic and the decrease in fatalities over the last 10 - 20 years or so. do you really think the reduction in fatalities is due to speed camera's etc? or perhaps it is due to the fact that cars have had a massive improvement in passive and active safety features.

I understand that death reductions have nothing to do with speed cameras. The biggest factor in safety is still the person behind the wheel. Otherwise all the people with classic cars here would be dead by your reasoning.

[Spammy]

How are everyone's VCRs going? Do you think women will get the right to vote? I think north sydney bears will win the NRL this year.

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by irish2

I am not some awesome driver, .

Could have fooled me... going by your post/s above you must be the worlds best in an emergency with little safety aids to help, I don’t care what you say there is no way you could have avoided an accident any better with out the aid of ABS, no one is that perfect my friend, not even you.

I’d love to see two vehicles side by side, one with ABS and the other without, doing the same speed, with you being in the one without, you think you could steer and brake it better then the one with out at the split of a second someone pulled out in front of you and you both had to take avasive action, yeah right .

[irish2]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Could have fooled me... going by your post/s above you must be the worlds best in an emergency with little safety aids to help, I don’t care what you say there is no way you could have avoided an accident any better with out the aid of ABS, no one is that perfect my friend, not even you.

I’d love to see two vehicles side by side, one with ABS and the other without, doing the same speed, with you being in the one without, you think you could steer and brake it better then the one with out at the split of a second someone pulled out in front of you and you both had to take avasive action, yeah right .

Where did my post say I could do any better than ABS? FFS people, the best safety device in the vehicle is the driver. The wrong attitude and poor skills can not be overcome by driver aids. That is what I was trying to say.

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by irish2

Where did my post say I could do any better than ABS? FFS people, the best safety device in the vehicle is the driver. The wrong attitude and poor skills can not be overcome by driver aids. That is what I was trying to say.

Not all accidents are caused by other driver’s though are they ?.

Oh and by you saying you have been in an accident and steered around it with out the aid of ABS and you have never needed it, sort of implies that your the best, your words.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Not all accidents are caused by other driver’s though are they ?.

Oh and by you saying you have been in an accident and steered around it with out the aid of ABS and you have never needed it, sort of implies that your the best, your words.

Get your hand off it mate. I never said I was the best. I merely said I had avoided an accident where I released a lock to regain steering. I have completed a defensive driver course where the main focus was about releasing a lock up and performing a maneuver around cones. I also completed an advanced driver course, have had several skid pan days, and been to tens of track days in a car that has no driver aids.

I know there are far better drivers out there just from time spent on the track. I am still of the belief that the driver is the biggest part of the safety of a vehicle.

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by irish2

Get your hand off it mate. I never said I was the best. I merely said I had avoided an accident where I released a lock to regain steering. I have completed a defensive driver course where the main focus was about releasing a lock up and performing a maneuver around cones. I also completed an advanced driver course, have had several skid pan days, and been to tens of track days in a car that has no driver aids.

I know there are far better drivers out there just from time spent on the track. I am still of the belief that the driver is the biggest part of the safety of a vehicle.

Lol.. you should really go and buy yourself a cheap old 60’s Falcon and start your own driver defensive class mate, I would feel a lot a better knowing that you're out there teaching what you preach to other less fortunate people, your talent really is wasted here.

[prydey]

regardless of one's personal beliefs, active and passive safety has real benefits to the community. there will always be those who feel they don't need them, and by the same token, there will be a large percentage of drivers that never find themselves in a situation where they are required, but nevertheless, they have saved lives and continue to save lives probably every day.

whilst it may be true that the driver is a big factor, the human element is also the most unreliable in the car.

[Express]

Originally Posted by castellan

No one who is truly into cars would want a 4cyl or a 6cyl really now would they, sure some and I say only some 4 and 6 are good cars, the rest are just rubbish transport.
Some dude comes and says do you want to drive to Cains and then to Melbourne I can't think of a 4 cyl or 6 cyl car that I would love to do it in apart from a BMW M3.

It must be a BMW thing though honestly there are others.

I’m a V8 man through and through, they are the only type of cars I’m really interested in but my wife’s 135i twin turbo 3 litre in-line 6 is a real hoot to drive.

It's our main long distance hauler and I love the feel of it.

And it’ll scare the pants off the V8’s in the twisties and isn’t shy to stretch its legs in the straights.

When that second turbo cuts in, ye-ha.





As far as ABS goes, I'm from the old school world and seen what a brake lockup can do.

Give me all the active and passive safety there is. Anything that may help save my family's lives is a no brainer for me.