Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

[Nu66et]

Originally Posted by simon varley

umm, PX was launched with a 2.5 petrol in Australia and it tanked which is why no other petrol has ever been sold here.

That was never a serious option though.

But this is an endless cycle. Buyers cry for a big petrol engine, manufacturers offer them, then they cut them after they don't sell enough.

They could be ready to go around again and offer the US special 2.3 and 2.7 engines alongside the 2.0 and 3.0 diesels for the new model, but we'll have to wait and see.

[CyberWasp]

Nailed it

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Maybe Ford will realise that all those buyers who bought Falcon and Commodore utes didn't buy lower powered diesel utes from the opposition for a reason and when you look at all those XR6T/XR8 ute and SS ute buyers they don't have anything to update to.

Hence why the internet melted down when they announced they were making one before pulling the plug. Even people in the USA were envious.

Tesla have shown car companies how to launch crazy out there vehicles. Just look at the Cyber Truck and how many deposits were placed. That is on some ridiculous idea that wasn't even fully nutted out yet.

Ford already have the Body, Trans and Motors and just have to engineer the final details. Way less work than what Tesla have to do to make their promise.

Survey 1000 people and ask them what motor you would associate with the name Ranger Raptor and I bet V8 would be the majority.

[chevypower]

^^^ hard to believe the original F-150 Raptor had the 5.4. Wasn’t too popular, as everyone was already anticipating the 6.2.

[jpd80]

The reason Ford switched to V6 Ecoboost in F150 Raptor was rising CAFE limits.
The 6.2 was developed without cylinder deactivation which anchored the Raptor's
official highway cycle fuel economy at just 16 mpg, the EB V6 was 4 mpg better.

The topic of engine selection for the next generation Ranger Raptor brings out a powerful response
from certain potential buyers, it's clear that there's an opportunity to sell more if Ford looks beyond
diesel engines. I hope that Ford takes a wider view of potential high end buyers. Instead of going on
and on about which engine to use, I think it's more about buyers expecting a certain performance
level in a vehicle branded Raptor, that disappointment shone through even though Ranger is now
the top selling 4x4.....it is possible to succeed at one goal and completely miss a great opportunity.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by chevypower

^^^ hard to believe the original F-150 Raptor had the 5.4. Wasn’t too popular, as everyone was already anticipating the 6.2.

The 5.4 was just a place holder until the 6.2 was ready.

[Nu66et]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The reason Ford switched to V6 Ecoboost in F150 Raptor was rising CAFE limits.
The 6.2 was developed without cylinder deactivation which anchored the Raptor's
official highway cycle fuel economy at just 16 mpg, the EB V6 was 4 mpg better.

The topic of engine selection for the next generation Ranger Raptor brings out a powerful response
from certain potential buyers, it's clear that there's an opportunity to sell more if Ford looks beyond
diesel engines. I hope that Ford takes a wider view of potential high end buyers. Instead of going on
and on about which engine to use, I think it's more about buyers expecting a certain performance
level in a vehicle branded Raptor, that disappointment shone through even though Ranger is now
the top selling 4x4.....it is possible to succeed at one goal and completely miss a great opportunity.

Yeah but I think some people have incredibly unrealistic expectations. There's surprisingly alot of people who felt Raptor had to have a V8, even though F150 went V6. Then there's also a lot of people who felt if Ranger went V6 too, that it would be the 3.5.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Nu66et

Yeah but I think some people have incredibly unrealistic expectations. There's surprisingly alot of people who felt Raptor had to have a V8, even though F150 went V6. Then there's also a lot of people who felt if Ranger went V6 too, that it would be the 3.5.

The way I see it, the 3.0 V6 diesel is almost a certainty to be there as an option in regular Rangers.
That leaves a few options for the Ranger Raptor of either a really hopped up V6 diesel or,
one of four Ecoboost engines, 2.3 EB, 2.7 EB, 3.0 EB and the 3.5 EB, the latter available
with 450 HP / 500 lb ft from big brother, F150 Raptor.

So how far is Ford prepared to go.......

[CyberWasp]

Mr bean counter will mull over the options.
2.3, 2.7, 3.0, 3.5 and 5.0.........make it with the 2.3.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Nu66et

Buyers cry for a big petrol engine

No. A few vocal members of an internet forum, few of whom are ever actually going to purchase the product, are asking for a big petrol engine. That's not the same

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by simon varley

No. A few vocal members of an internet forum, few of whom are ever actually going to purchase the product, are asking for a big petrol engine. That's not the same

Don’t forget that Ford completely underestimated the response to Mustang,
so maybe it’s best to keep an open mind on high series HP product.

Would be hilarious if a HP Ranger put the broom through full sized Ute sales,
the question though is what is it people want and how far does Ford need to go.

[simon varley]

interesting question! If someone buys your product, you can sit down and have a chat with them about why, what they like and don't like etc, but how can you ever really know why someone didn't purchase? If the other OEMs offered a V8 you could even talk to their customers and ask what they bought the car for, but if nobody offers it, how can you ever be really sure?

Maybe you just have to take a chance? to some extent that's what happened with Mustang and sure it paid off - to start with. How many repeat sales are they getting now, after everyone has bought one and sold it on? Mustang is probably a big enough market to soak up a slump in Aussie RHD sales, but if the same happened for Ranger would that work out so well?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by simon varley

interesting question! If someone buys your product, you can sit down and have a chat with them about why, what they like and don't like etc, but how can you ever really know why someone didn't purchase? If the other OEMs offered a V8 you could even talk to their customers and ask what they bought the car for, but if nobody offers it, how can you ever be really sure?

Maybe you just have to take a chance? to some extent that's what happened with Mustang and sure it paid off - to start with. How many repeat sales are they getting now, after everyone has bought one and sold it on? Mustang is probably a big enough market to soak up a slump in Aussie RHD sales, but if the same happened for Ranger would that work out so well?

Yes it would because neither Ranger Raptor nor Mustang depend on local sales for survival.

Here’s another question,
If USA gets next Gen Ranger Raptor, will Ford still have a 2.0 diesel in it?
You can bet they will have a commensurate engine for it and a perfect
solution to the question for Australia, an optional EB engine?

And I’d argue that someone has already gone on V8 pickups, Walkinshaw/GMSV
so if Ford is not encouraging importation of F-150 then back more HP Rangers.

[Gumboot]

Originally Posted by simon varley

interesting question! If someone buys your product, you can sit down and have a chat with them about why, what they like and don't like etc, but how can you ever really know why someone didn't purchase? If the other OEMs offered a V8 you could even talk to their customers and ask what they bought the car for, but if nobody offers it, how can you ever be really sure?

Maybe you just have to take a chance? to some extent that's what happened with Mustang and sure it paid off - to start with. How many repeat sales are they getting now, after everyone has bought one and sold it on? Mustang is probably a big enough market to soak up a slump in Aussie RHD sales, but if the same happened for Ranger would that work out so well?

Following on from your Question Simon of "how do you know what a customer wants if they don't purchase cause you cant ask them".
Another angle for the manufacturer is to look at the where where customers do go instead.


For example Ram trucks has only been recently bringing in Ram 1500's over a few years. Yet they have managed to carve out well more than 5000 sales for an asking price of between $80k-$100K.
The buyers would be a mix of new people wanting to get in a larger truck maybe for towing, ones that want larger beds for recreational / trade use and ones that may want a V8 engine. Some of these would be ranger as well as other dual cab ute buyers that were teased away with a more compelling product for their needs. Irrespective you can see a desire by the public.


Now granted that's not enough as the business case needs to stack up of putting say a v8 ( or other more sports orientated engine to live up to the raptor name) and will enough people pay a premium for a V8 Raptor. But it gives you some valuable buyer intelligence .
I am sure there would be a point where you would lose there consideration. I dare say that's over $100K but if you could get a v8 raptor somewhere near $90k' ish i bet there would be a market ( which is $15Kish more than the current one, And you save the money of not putting in the new Diesel 2.0 anyway) Lets face it mustang sold well above initial expectation as it was priced pretty reasonably. If a GT Mustang was over $90K it would have been dead in the water.

[Ben73]

So we’re doing this whole engine thing again? I guess it has to be done every year.

People who spend 70k plus on a Thai Ute want a small engine because they will be struggling to afford to fuel bill with the $1500 a month loan repayments.l for the next 7 years

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Ben73

So we’re doing this whole engine thing again? I guess it has to be done every year.

People who spend 70k plus on a Thai Ute want a small engine because they will be struggling to afford to fuel bill with the $1500 a month loan repayments.l for the next 7 years

Consider this, the top selling 4x4 in Australia now has a 2.0 diesel as the main engine sold,
there's no doubt that Ford would have surveyed Ranger buyers to see what else they want.

It's highly likely that more than a few Ranger buyers have expressed a desire for a bigger engine,
those are the people that Ford listens to and probably where interest in a V8 Ranger came from
in the first place. I doubt that Ford entertained building a V8 mule on a whim of fancy, someone
had evidence to at least investigate the idea but maybe the engineers found a better way to deliver
performance without a V8?

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Consider this, the top selling 4x4 in Australia now has a 2.0 diesel as the main engine sold,
there's no doubt that Ford would have surveyed Ranger buyers to see what else they want.

Another way to look at it is the most powerful Ranger with the better gearbox is selling well. That is how the survey was framed as I did one of them. It focused mainly on output rather than engine size. I have no doubt if the 3.0 Powerstroke was available, the 2.0 wouldn't get a look in.

[Nu66et]

Well 20 years ago class leading diesel output was 86kw. Do diesel buyers have a ceiling where enough is enough, or do they want as much as they can get.

[Falcon SXR8]

Originally Posted by Nu66et

Well 20 years ago class leading diesel output was 86kw. Do diesel buyers have a ceiling where enough is enough, or do they want as much as they can get.

Depends what you have to sacrifice to get the hp, the old 86kw diesel is probably a lot more reliable, cheaper and easier to repair than a modern one. You just can't tow a house with them

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Consider this, the top selling 4x4 in Australia now has a 2.0 diesel as the main engine sold,
there's no doubt that Ford would have surveyed Ranger buyers to see what else they want.

It's highly likely that more than a few Ranger buyers have expressed a desire for a bigger engine,
those are the people that Ford listens to and probably where interest in a V8 Ranger came from
in the first place. I doubt that Ford entertained building a V8 mule on a whim of fancy, someone
had evidence to at least investigate the idea but maybe the engineers found a better way to deliver
performance without a V8?

Yes, but 0-100 in double digits is not really performance.

I know people will say that it's not about straight line speed, but dual cabs seem to have the highest average speed out of all vehicle categories on the road. They have some of the worst power to weight ratios and are still the fastest drivers.

I talked myself into it, Little 4 cylinders are the only engine that should be allowed in dual cab utes.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Yes, but 0-100 in double digits is not really performance.

I know people will say that it's not about straight line speed, but dual cabs seem to have the highest average speed out of all vehicle categories on the road. They have some of the worst power to weight ratios and are still the fastest drivers.

I talked myself into it, Little 4 cylinders are the only engine that should be allowed in dual cab utes.

I think you missed my point with surveying Ranger buyers, they are the only people
that Ford seems to survey and accept feedback from. I saw that as an opportunity
for change but was informed above that Ford apparently steers the questions to
get an answer that are self serving to support it's existing stance on the 2.0 diesel.

When you have a high riding ute, the only performance possible is straight line
because the centre of gravity is so high that the just can't corner like a car does.

The trick is finding a balance between acceleration, fuel economy and what is it
that buyers really want. In order to have that serious discussion, Ford needs to
re-evaluate who it sees as its target Ranger buyers, at the moment its content
to sell most of its 4x4 dual cab utes to fleets, small business and novated lease
buyers.

The perception of non-buyers is that Ranger Raptor is bought solely by those
"disappointed performance enthusiasts" but the demographic is mostly small
business and novated lease buyers needing a vehicle to fit regulations. What
is the "antidote" for those actual buyers, is it a true high performance engine
or a slightly bigger diesel that just does everything so much better and with
less fuss?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Ben73

So we’re doing this whole engine thing again? I guess it has to be done every year.

People who spend 70k plus on a Thai Ute want a small engine because they will be struggling to afford to fuel bill with the $1500 a month loan repayments.l for the next 7 years

So it’s only dual cab buyers who do that?

Originally Posted by naddis01

Another way to look at it is the most powerful Ranger with the better gearbox is selling well. That is how the survey was framed as I did one of them. It focused mainly on output rather than engine size. I have no doubt if the 3.0 Powerstroke was available, the 2.0 wouldn't get a look in.

The 2.0 would become the base engine.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Ben73

So we’re doing this whole engine thing again? I guess it has to be done every year.

People who spend 70k plus on a Thai Ute want a small engine because they will be struggling to afford to fuel bill with the $1500 a month loan repayments.l for the next 7 years

I'd be ripping my lenders neck if I were paying $1500 per month for 7 years on a $75k purchase.... yes I know you stretched the truth however and around $900/m would be a better reference.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I'd be ripping my lenders neck if I were paying $1500 per month for 7 years on a $75k purchase.... yes I know you stretched the truth however and around $900/m would be a better reference.

Most of those would be leased with payments fully tax deductible and guaranteed buy back value.

[CyberWasp]

I think I have worked out why they dropped the chance of the 5.0 V8.

They caught wind of the new 6.8 Big Block Windsor coming so will now use that engine instead.

https://drivetribe.com/p/ford-makes-...RVmyK9xsRKwZ-A

A Big Block Ranger Raptor now makes sense.

[naddis01]

I wonder if there is anything to read into with the dual exhaust on the RHD test vehicle? Probably wishful thinking.





https://www.motor1.com/news/517617/f...or-spy-photos/

Ford Ranger Raptor Spied On The Street Looking Seriously Aggressive

Jul 01, 2021 at 5:18pm ET

Christopher Smith

Is that a Wildtrak style bar behind the cab?

There's much we still don't know about the next-generation Ford Ranger Raptor. What will it look like? What's under the hood? And perhaps the question American truck fans are most interested in, will it be sold in the States? We still have a while until those questions are answered, but the latest batch of spy shots does offer more clues to ponder.

Camouflage is still heavy, but the high-resolution images let us hone in on the grille and headlights a bit better. Familiar Ford branding on a mesh-style grille should be the order of the day, with a pair of C-ringed headlights flanking it on either side. If you think this is similar to the current-generation F-150, you're absolutely right. When the camo finally peels away, we're expecting the new Ranger and its follow-up Raptor variant to borrow heavily from the popular full-size pickup. So there's one question mostly answered.

We also have high-resolution shots at the rear, and this time around, that's where the excitement is found. For starters, there's a style bar behind the cab that we haven't seen before. It looks like the same setup you get on Ranger variants in markets outside the US, notably the Wildtrak and yes, the current Raptor. If the meaty tires and camouflaged rear axle weren't enough to convince you this is a Raptor prototype, the style bar should seal the deal.

We also get a decent look at the taillights, and once again, F-150 influence is present with a C-shaped motif. In profile, we don't see much difference between this truck and the current model but the prominent dual exhausts certainly stand out. We've seen duals on previous test vehicles, and that suggests a twin-turbocharged V6 gasoline engine is under the hood. That potentially answers question number two, and to take our speculation a step further, such power suggests that maybe, just maybe, Ford will offer it in the States.

That said, we'll burst the bubble just a bit by drawing your attention to the passenger side window on the photos. Yeah, that's actually the driver side for this truck – it's a right-hand-drive prototype so that's a strike against a US appearance. Then again, a previous video sighting of an alleged Ranger Raptor had the driver on the left side, so for that question anyway, we're still pretty sketchy.

Full disclosure almost certainly won't happen this year. The standard next-gen Ranger hasn't appeared yet, so we're banking on a 2022 Ranger Raptor debut for the 2023 model year.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I think you missed my point with surveying Ranger buyers, they are the only people
that Ford seems to survey and accept feedback from. I saw that as an opportunity
for change but was informed above that Ford apparently steers the questions to
get an answer that are self serving to support it's existing stance on the 2.0 diesel.

That's the oldest trick in the book, frame the question so you get the responses you want

My theory is that there's a lack of competition in the Thailand Special market, everyone offers dreary diesel 4 cylinder engines so there is no incentive to offer anything thats a step upwards, its similar to how in the 1980s there were a fair few turbo cars available to the market, then they just completely disappeared in the 1990s/00s until they came back because of emissions regulations then they are all over the place again.

It really needs someone like Hyundai/Kia to enter the market who will offer something above the norm for the whole class to attract buyers to their brand in this category, then the rest will get a kick up the *** and start trying to compete again.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by simon varley

No. A few vocal members of an internet forum, few of whom are ever actually going to purchase the product, are asking for a big petrol engine. That's not the same

Same reason why there's huge discounts and thousands or Landcruisers, Patrol and Rams sitting around in yards doing nothing, Oh wait no you cannot test drive these vehicles because they sell every single one before it's built. There must be a lot of forum members out there I guess.


There are people who want big engines. Current 4 cylinder Ranger owners would only be a small part of people who will buy a bigger engine Raptor. A lot of sales would come from people migrating from other vehicles.

[naddis01]

Maybe a split strategy could work. Use the V6 diesel in the Raptor and a V6 Ecoboost as a Raptor R.

[jpd80]

Could we be overthinking this?
Just add a silky smooth six cylinder diesel that gives easy power and a new level of refinement?

Maybe all Ranger and Everest need is that six cylinder “secret sauce”……..

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

That's the oldest trick in the book, frame the question so you get the responses you want

My theory is that there's a lack of competition in the Thailand Special market, everyone offers dreary diesel 4 cylinder engines so there is no incentive to offer anything thats a step upwards, its similar to how in the 1980s there were a fair few turbo cars available to the market, then they just completely disappeared in the 1990s/00s until they came back because of emissions regulations then they are all over the place again.

It really needs someone like Hyundai/Kia to enter the market who will offer something above the norm for the whole class to attract buyers to their brand in this category, then the rest will get a kick up the *** and start trying to compete again.

New Ranger is the one that moves the game forward. Mark my words. They do listen sometimes.