Ford Ranger - milking the cow for every last drop..

[Sprintey]

Toyota have a dual injector setup on some of their engines, both port and direct injected so they don't build up the carbon on the valves, so as to be cleaner and not gunk up.

But yeah more moving parts and stuff bolted on, more to go wrong. Makes an electric motor seem so simple, even if the batteries are not.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by smoo

Problem is modern small capacity direct inject turbo petrol engines are also having longevity and reliability issues.
It’s pretty much a given the Euros are going to give dramas but even Toyota and Honda are having turbo petrol engines shit themselves.
It’s more indicative modern cars are trash regardless of what fuel powers them.
It started when manufacturers stopped including ash trays in vehicles.

While modern longevity can be called into question, there are many owners doing power up kits
and then wondering why their vehicles fail pematurely, maybe a little too greedy wanting more power..

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

That engine is actually a 2.4 turbo with hybrid in the Tacoma Ute, Prado platform but slightly bigger than Hilux
I recon that Ford already has it covered with the 2.3 EB PHEV, whenever it arrives…

So I've been watching all the RAV4 hybrid vids and they reckon it has power for its size, like having a V6 one guy said...

EB2.3 should be very good.

Put hybrid in the Prado in a Fortuner or Hilux and it should go pretty hard.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

So I've been watching all the RAV4 hybrid vids and they reckon it has power for its size, like having a V6 one guy said...

EB2.3 should be very good.

Put hybrid in the Prado in a Fortuner or Hilux and it should go pretty hard.

Thers a lot to be optimistic about Ford and Toyota have been working on hybrids for years
so they should know who will want them. So rather than a diesel replacement,
it could be offered alongside of them as something different, especially with the funny games
the oil companies play with petrol and diesel prices…

[Trendseeker]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

So I've been watching all the RAV4 hybrid vids and they reckon it has power for its size, like having a V6 one guy said...

EB2.3 should be very good.

Put hybrid in the Prado in a Fortuner or Hilux and it should go pretty hard.

The RAV4 Hybrid accelerates from 0 to 100kph in 8.1 seconds. Maximum power is 160kw (combined petrol and electric) and torque is 221nm.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/toyota/rav4/boot-space

The ZH Escape with a EB2.0 does 0 to 100kph in 6.5 seconds. Maximum power is 183kw and torque is 380nm.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/ford/escape/speed

The EB2.3 would more than have a RAV4 covered.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

The RAV4 Hybrid accelerates from 0 to 100kph in 8.1 seconds. Maximum power is 160kw (combined petrol and electric) and torque is 221nm.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/toyota/rav4/boot-space

The ZH Escape with a EB2.0 does 0 to 100kph in 6.5 seconds. Maximum power is 183kw and torque is 380nm.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/ford/escape/speed

The EB2.3 would more than have a RAV4 covered.

I went for a spin in my mates ST Line AWD escape with 2.0EB.
It goes much better than i thought it would!

[prydey]

Originally Posted by DJM83

I went for a spin in my mates ST Line AWD escape with 2.0EB.
It goes much better than i thought it would!

Agree. It's very good. Rolling start is rapid and the 8sp works very well with the engine under full throttle.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by jpd80

While modern longevity can be called into question, there are many owners doing power up kits
and then wondering why their vehicles fail pematurely, maybe a little too greedy wanting more power..

Or those who skip or delay services like they did with larger NA engines. Small turbo engines don't really tolerate that and need fresh, clean oil. Naturally, there will always be specific failure points, but changing oil regularly on or before the dot is key. So there is some user error going on here.

You'd say the same concept applied to DCT's. Again, they had legitimate issues, but a high degree of customer driving habit played a part too.

[prydey]

Back to the thread topic about Ford maximising the Ranger platform, what models are likely to get the hybrid option, or will it be sold as a stand alone model?

Pics on the website have wildtrak badges on the side so one has to assume it will be offered in a range of trim levels.

Given the propensity to target the top end of buyers, and looking at escape, I'm guessing it will be overpriced, or at least priced at a fair premium.

I'm not convinced it will work but then again, I didn't think people would buy luxury themed Rangers either but platinum seems to find buyers.

[Sprintey]

Jeep has marketed their PHEV as top of the range on Grand Cherokee, unavailable in lower models, wonder if Ford will follow this pattern

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Jeep has marketed their PHEV as top of the range on Grand Cherokee, unavailable in lower models, wonder if Ford will follow this pattern

I think they will

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by prydey

I think they will

Wildtrak, Platinum ?

I tip that.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by prydey

You do realise you are speculating about how other people 'should' live, right.

It's not a 'pseudo' family car if in fact it is a family car.

My wife drove my territory and loved it. She loves the Everest also. Her own cars in that time was a LS focus and now a ZH Escape. There is no 'dread' when she has to use the larger car, or me having to force her.

As for being covered in diesel.... Again, over 7 years of usage and never found it a problem. Never been covered in diesel and more than equivalent petrol.

It's probably something that gets airtime from the toorak tractor types, who would probably complain about all sorts of non issues.

I m not so sure about filling with diesel not being unpleasant

Sure if you are just
Joe consumer driving your Everest Ranger diesel 250
Km a week most times you are only filling every fortnight

But if you are a delivery driver with say a Vw Transporter doing 250 km a day and coy policy is to fill daily it does get unpleasant

Stepping into small puddles of ground diesel round the pump getting that shit all over the footwear sole then transferred to the vehicle mats

Getting diesel from a grimy diesel pump handle all over your hand the shit stays on your hands ages and stinks


And I ve always had a suspicion that diesels if poorly maintained ie filters etc can pump fumes through the hvac system


I don’t think diesel is pretty to fuel

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kevino

Getting diesel from a grimy diesel pump handle all over your hand the shit stays on your hands ages and stinks

This - how good is it you grab the chocolate bar after filling your diesel job and then have diesel flavoured chocolate bar.

I don't like it and I'm this guy on site:



I work in sewage infrastructure, become one with the pathogens

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

The RAV4 Hybrid accelerates from 0 to 100kph in 8.1 seconds. Maximum power is 160kw (combined petrol and electric) and torque is 221nm.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/toyota/rav4/boot-space

The ZH Escape with a EB2.0 does 0 to 100kph in 6.5 seconds. Maximum power is 183kw and torque is 380nm.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/ford/escape/speed

The EB2.3 would more than have a RAV4 covered.

US gets the Rav4 “Prime” hybrid (more motors) which is a lot quicker.. 5.5, 0-100 and a flat 14.0 1/4 mile
Been for a spin in a 2021 Prime in Costa Rica and it was surprisingly zippy.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by kevino

I m not so sure about filling with diesel not being unpleasant

Sure if you are just
Joe consumer driving your Everest Ranger diesel 250
Km a week most times you are only filling every fortnight

But if you are a delivery driver with say a Vw Transporter doing 250 km a day and coy policy is to fill daily it does get unpleasant

Stepping into small puddles of ground diesel round the pump getting that shit all over the footwear sole then transferred to the vehicle mats

Getting diesel from a grimy diesel pump handle all over your hand the shit stays on your hands ages and stinks


And I ve always had a suspicion that diesels if poorly maintained ie filters etc can pump fumes through the hvac system


I don’t think diesel is pretty to fuel

I'm sure you could paint the same picture with petrol

Or wear gloves like many HV drivers do.

And watch wear you fill and walk

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

It holds its peak torque for a grand total of 250 RPM.

but doesn't drop below 450Nm until over 3000rpm!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by simon varley

but doesn't drop below 450Nm until over 3000rpm!

Same with the Ecoboost engines except circa 4500 RPM

They hold their peak torque much longer than their diesel equivalent, mine holds its peak torque all the way from 1500-5000 RPM.

The 2.3 not so much but it's still fairly significant, look at the comments on the Ecoboost Amarok about how quiet it is and what it drives like.

While petrol V6-powered HiLuxes and the like were once common, this segment has become so staunchly diesel that I had a very strange feeling wash over me as I went to fill up the Amarok.

“Surely this isn’t the right pump?” I asked, before reminding myself that, yes, I must stick that 95 RON nozzle in.

Then there’s the sound it makes at a highway cruise – or the lack of sound, I should say. At highway speeds the cabin is positively serene, without that diesel clatter in the background. That’s not to say an Amarok with, say, the V6 turbo-diesel is unrefined, it’s just this petrol model is so pleasantly hushed it’s almost surreal.

Only the slightest wind rustle around the mirrors intrudes at highway speeds. The turbo-petrol under the bonnet actually has a nice sound to it, and not just “nice compared to a diesel”.

It’s a cracker of an engine too, with plenty of pull. It might be down on torque compared with the V6 turbo-diesel, but it feels rapid off the line and when overtaking.

It's quiet and is 222KW/452NM - and no clattering diesel engine, note that they're comparing it to the diesel V6, not the bi-turbo.

I reckon it should be offered as an option on the Ranger, it's Raptor money In the Amarok.

[Captain Stubing]

In relation to the actual Ranger topic, I'm looking at the Ranger Sport, optioned to near the Wildtrak. My wife tells me we are doing the lap of Oz, so okay! I'm also told we are towing a caravan. Raptor looks awesome, but lower levels are better for towing.

I'm yet to buy a caravan or Ranger, but that's in coming months it seems. I know nothing...

I was looking at the Ranger in 2011, but bought a Triton instead. After 5 years I bought the FG/X ute, and now am looking to supplement it with a Ranger.

The Ranger options give buyers many options to get in at, look at how many Air Jordan shoes were released.. Ford has nothing to compare!

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Captain Stubing

In relation to the actual Ranger topic, I'm looking at the Ranger Sport, optioned to near the Wildtrak. My wife tells me we are doing the lap of Oz, so okay! I'm also told we are towing a caravan. Raptor looks awesome, but lower levels are better for towing.

I'm yet to buy a caravan or Ranger, but that's in coming months it seems. I know nothing...

I was looking at the Ranger in 2011, but bought a Triton instead. After 5 years I bought the FG/X ute, and now am looking to supplement it with a Ranger.

The Ranger options give buyers many options to get in at, look at how many Air Jordan shoes were released.. Ford has nothing to compare!

Ranger is arguably the best tow vehicle you can buy under $100k. Long wheel base, short tow ball overhang and decent engine. It means you don't have to compromise as much on your van especially if setting up to be in it for a long period.

Sport is probably a good choice.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Same with the Ecoboost engines except circa 4500 RPM

They hold their peak torque much longer than their diesel equivalent, mine holds its peak torque all the way from 1500-5000 RPM.

The 2.3 not so much but it's still fairly significant, look at the comments on the Ecoboost Amarok about how quiet it is and what it drives like.



It's quiet and is 222KW/452NM - and no clattering diesel engine, note that they're comparing it to the diesel V6, not the bi-turbo.

I reckon it should be offered as an option on the Ranger, it's Raptor money In the Amarok.

The 3.0 diesel holds around 450Nm from around 1000rpm to 4000rpm (not far off the redline). So basically the entire usable rpm. But then has another 150Nm on tap at the peak.

Horses for courses. Just because you aren't a diesel fan, it doesn't mean it doesn't suit others. And that is coming from a petrol owner.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by naddis01

The 3.0 diesel holds around 450Nm from around 1000rpm to 4000rpm (not far off the redline). So basically the entire usable rpm. But then has another 150Nm on tap at the peak.

Horses for courses. Just because you aren't a diesel fan, it doesn't mean it doesn't suit others. And that is coming from a petrol owner.

Right, since we're now comparing 6 cylinder engine, how does the 3L V6 diesel go compared to the 3L Ecoboost V6? Its above 400NM from 1500 - 6000+

Its not whether it suits me or not, its just diesel engines are trash in 2024.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Right, since we're now comparing 6 cylinder engine, how does the 3L V6 diesel go compared to the 3L Ecoboost V6? Its above 400NM from 1500 - 6000+

Its not whether it suits me or not, its just diesel engines are trash in 2024.

I'd hate to be doing any actual work with the 3.0 Ecoboost going off the fuel consumption of my Raptor.

Like I said, horses for courses.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Which means someones wife is likely going to be driving it, and I'm sure if she had an option of one which didn't make that horrid clattery noise on idle and she didn't get diesel on her hands every time she touches the bowser to fill it up, she'd probably prefer the unleaded option thats quieter, cheaper to maintain and cleaner to fill.

Earlier on this year, there was that the most opaque of the female rituals - The Baby Shower - across the road from my place. Well, you should have seen the collection of 4WD that turned up. The Yummy Mummy parade included four Prados, two Landcruiser 300, a tricked up 70 series for beach work (V8 manual and all), four Rangers, and three Everests. In the minority were a few CX-5 and RAV4. I cannot recall even seeing one traditional passenger sedan.

One Yummy Mummy parked a brand new Everest Platinum outside my place. There was a bevy of Yummy Mums flocking around the Platinum checking it out. And its owner was carrying on like she had personally birthed the Platinum. (I would have taken photos _of_ _the_ _Everest_, except within three seconds the police would be around to inspect my camera...)

Energy Research & Social Science, Volume 92, October 2022, 102776 had this to say:

We find that SUV drivers view their vehicles as functionally superior to smaller cars in terms of safety, space for lifestyle, handling, and fun. Symbolically, SUVs are seen as a “status symbol” that can communicate a number of images, such as being “successful”. SUV drivers are more likely to see these vehicles as common and “approved” in their social networks, and tend to downplay any negative societal impacts such as increased GHG emissions.
...
Other studies consider which functional attributes of SUVs are valued by consumers, such as safety. Thomas and Walton find SUV use to be strongly related to perceptions that large vehicles are safer, useful for off-road, and prestigious [15]. Focusing on safety perceptions, they find that SUV drivers are particularly driven by the egocentric notion that “bigger is safer,” prioritizing personal collision safety over safety for other road users [15]. Paradoxically, while the increasing share of larger, heavier vehicles reduces the safety of the transportation system, the drivers of these larger, heavier vehicles report that they feel safer. Gladwell describes this phenomenon as the difference between the “passive safety” offered by SUVs (getting hit by something) and the “active safety” benefits of smaller cars (handling, braking and avoiding collisions) [16]. As argued by Gladwell, the preference for passive safety represents how “feeling safe has become more important than actually being safe” [16]

So, a Yummy Mummy with a baby on board is more likely to act like a Momma Grizzly Bear with her young cub in the back seat. Other road users be dammed. Hence, females are quite happy, I suggest far more happier, behind the wheel of a large 4WD. The larger the better. The clatter of a diesel (which I think is overstated), the smell of diesel, etc, are just minor inconveniences behind the wheel of a mobile safety bubble.


.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by prydey

Back to the thread topic about Ford maximising the Ranger platform, what models are likely to get the hybrid option, or will it be sold as a stand alone model?

One would think most fleet managers would be keen to reduce their emissions. A lot of companies and government organisations have to track and publish carbon emissions in their annual reports.

It follows then that a PHEV (with its 45 km city range) would tick quite a few boxes for organisations. I poverty pack PHEV is not out of the question. But it does all come down to supply chain availability and price.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by prydey

I'm sure you could paint the same picture with petrol

Or wear gloves like many HV drivers do.

And watch wear you fill and walk

Shows you are a two week fuel filler
The ground near diesel pumps is nearly always dieseled shall we say
Gloves haven’t got time for that
I ll leave you and the wider Tonka toy consumer cohort to your toy truck rangers and everests .,,

[Captain Stubing]

Gentlemen! Let’s keep it on track, it’s not a comparison on who fills up the most! Let’s get back to how many variants of the Range r there should be.

[Citroënbender]

Of course Ford are going to keep milking the cow which lays the golden egg. </Johism> #dontyouworryaboutthat

[lra]

If they started painting Rangers in something other than 50 shades of grey, would that increase the number of variants ?

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Its not whether it suits me or not, its just diesel engines are trash in 2024.

kinda. I wouldn't go as far as you - I was a massive diesel convert when direct injection came out, and agree that today a modern petrol engine is probably better. The problem is that as emissions levels tighten the petrol engines will see an equivalent strangulation. Euro5 petrol is pretty easy as the exhaust only has a good old catalyst. When you get to Euro6 you need to add a GPF and start the process of choking don performance

When you get to Euro 7 (due in mid 2025 in Europe) then there is currently no agreed technical solution. It almost certainly has to be a hybrid powertrain, and even then it looks like the petrol engine will need all sorts of add-ons like pre-heaters etc.