Why do people buy Holdens?

[buickman]

I agree with a lot of others on the dropping of the V8 killed Fords performance image. But the XF outsold the holdens mainly to taxi & company fleets & forgot about motor racing & sponsering other sports such as tennis.

The XF & EA fords were not focused on any performance from the factory so lost the youth image market of those years. A VL Calias turbo & VNSS have a better performance image than XF's & EA's.

The AU's problem is it was to different in appearance to anything else when released but it was fairly well enginereed & had the ohc 6 & Windsor V8 soughted out by the time the BA's were released.

[Mattrix]

Originally Posted by Hunter

I don't understand why people automatically assume that everything made by the Japanese is great stuff and cannot be faulted. This simply isn't the case and assuming that it is would be a mistake. Most Japanese cars are never intended to drive the distances that Australians have to or endure the conditions that are present on Australian roads. A lot of Japanese cars are designed with specific lifespan in mind and most Japanese don't keep their cars terribly long.

So when the yanks get the Celsior/LS400 up to 500,000 miles on the clock, this must be some sort of accident? "australian roads" is purely subjective - how many city people go out on big country drives? the biggest drives a lot of people do are just the freeway drives around cities, or perhaps between cities, but the roads are still really good between the major cities on the east coast. the japs are getting insane amounts of power out of tiny engines, the people that don't want to spend tonnes on petrol obviously view these cars as a viable alternative. now, korean cars on the other hand... hehe

[Damo]

Originally Posted by XA-Coupe

sometimes I am embarrassed to be a ford fan .... 4:

No you're not. :eclipsee_ :

[SSBUB]

Originally Posted by Mattrix

So when the yanks get the Celsior/LS400 up to 500,000 miles on the clock, this must be some sort of accident? "australian roads" is purely subjective - how many city people go out on big country drives? the biggest drives a lot of people do are just the freeway drives around cities, or perhaps between cities, but the roads are still really good between the major cities on the east coast. the japs are getting insane amounts of power out of tiny engines, the people that don't want to spend tonnes on petrol obviously view these cars as a viable alternative. now, korean cars on the other hand... hehe

I dont get this whole Korean car thing....we all know the daewoo connection, but is it not true Holden spent 12 months redesigning and tinkering to get the daewoo inadequancies out of the lancetti? I think people believe they just whacked a different badge on the daewoo and thats it. Sure, they arent the best cars, but for the price they arent too bad and they are not a daewoo anymore, not in design and name.....have any of you driven a viva yet or are we just speculating because of history of the previous company?

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Mattrix

So when the yanks get the Celsior/LS400 up to 500,000 miles on the clock, this must be some sort of accident? "australian roads" is purely subjective - how many city people go out on big country drives? the biggest drives a lot of people do are just the freeway drives around cities, or perhaps between cities, but the roads are still really good between the major cities on the east coast. the japs are getting insane amounts of power out of tiny engines, the people that don't want to spend tonnes on petrol obviously view these cars as a viable alternative. now, korean cars on the other hand... hehe

Note that I said most. I did not say all - there are plenty of Japanese cars that undoubtedly could last a long time. Oh and the LS400 is a v8 too, not a 4 banger (or 3 even) like most Japanese cars.

And regarding the roads, obviously my friend you've not driven on the roads I've driven on. Whilst by and large country and rural roads are probably the worst of the bunch, some of Brisbane's roads leave a *lot* to be desired. Driven on the gateway on northside lately? Pothole city. Some of the roads are veritable suspension killers. Its like slalom only you're playing with potholes and your life is on the line. Another example would again be the gateway, only on the southside. Terrible quality surface. One section was resurfaced with a controversial road material and as a result the speed limit on there is now 80 km/h... just like the Ipswich motorway which would, in my books, come close to being the worst road in Australia.

I've done relatively small amounts of country driving and some of the roads out whoop whoop leave a little to be desired but that is to be expect out in the middle of nowhere, not in the bloody middle of Brisbane. The Japanese I'd wager would have very high quality roads because they have such a small country compared to ours and much larger population.

At any rate, my point, I think, still stands. Apart from roads you've got the actual climate itself to consider. It doesn't snow in most parts of Australia and rarely gets down to temperatures where it could. Looked at the Magnas? They used paint originally specced for Japanese conditions, eventually the paint on most Magnas will fade and go rather off. The paint on my 96 EL on the other hand isn't too far off factory - I recently had a new front bar sprayed up based on the colour code, and what do you know, it matches the rest of the car perfectly. I and many others cannot tell the difference. This car has spent a lot of its life in the sun yet the paint is still strong as ever and still shines like a million bucks when I can be bothered washing and waxing it.


:

[orsest170]

Originally Posted by EfiJy

i gather most people here have never and will never drive holdens before they decide to upgrade to a falcon? :

Ok, I have to start this post with what I now consider to be a rather embarrassing admission. My first two cars were V8 Commodores I spent lots of $$$ making them faster and prettier. I even used to buy the magazine Commodore Crazy!

I had no real preference for either commodores or falcons when I got my first car, I just wanted a V8 and the Commodore V8’s were for sale in their hundreds at the time and V8 Falcons were few and far between.

Now would be an appropriate time to point out that I was never one of these narrow minded, dogmatic, chest beating ‘brand fans’ and nor was under any illusions about my car. I didn’t think that having a set of alloys and a rear spoiler somehow made my car into high performance street machine (and yes, this is directed at this current generation of young macho males driving VL- VT commodores).

Well at the same time I had a few friends who were ‘Ford men’ and drove falcons (EA, EB, EF XR6). Anyway every time I went in the Falcons, I immediately noticed the difference in ride quality and smoothness compared with the equivalent model Commodore (especially the VN – I’ve driven wooden Billy-Karts with better ride quality and dynamics). Well it again came time for me to ‘upgrade’ and I was in the market for a ‘performance version’ of either of Australia’s favourite family sedans from the 1994 -1997 era (VR/VS SS’s and EF/EL XR Falcons).

I put my preference for commodores aside and remained totally objective throughout the selection process. It turned out to be a simple decision. Based on what I had experienced with the superior ride quality and smoothness in the Falcons, and what I considered to be far superior looks (imo the XR Falcons with the Tickford factory body kit and wheels made the VS SS Commodore look rather ordinary), I went for an EF XR6. At the time it was quicker (very marginally I know), not as ‘nose heavy’, more economical and less to insure and service than the V8 competitors. I had that XR6 for 5 years and loved every minute of it and now I have a Focus ST170 that I love a whole lot more again.

Well that’s my account of why I ‘jumped ship’ and became a Blue Oval owner. I doubt I will ever return to the ‘Dark side’, not while I keep reading reviews continually describing the Ford’s superior dynamics and general drivability.

I agree with many of the suggestions put forward already but I also think there is another more simple reason for the Commodores popularity. It is a simple matter of ‘chest beating’. Let’s face it, the Commodore (and in its various HSV forms) has almost always produced slightly better acceleration figures than the direct blue oval competitor. I think ‘your average person’ (and especially the 18 – 30 yr old male) is more interested in bragging rights at the traffic lights than they are about driving dynamics and ride quality.

Personally I find it very sad that a person would choose one car over another simply because it will reach 100 km/h 0.5 secs faster than another, but it seems to sell cars.

The new Astra VXR (due for release in Oz at the same time as the XR5) is a classic example of ‘The Generals’ marketing strategy - Produce a car that will beat all its competitors down the Quarter mile, and forget about drivability. It has an awful ride and torque steers to the point of being almost undrivable under heavy acceleration. The fact is they will still sell, and sell in good numbers. Why? Bragging rights at the lights, plain and simple.

[Rodp]

I've owned 3.

HX with a 350 in it. Loved the look of the car even though the performance was inversely proportional to its economy.

VQ Statesman. Loved the interior and the exhaust note even though it was possibly one of the easiest cars on the planet to steal.

VT2SS. Gen3, excitement machine.. as much as I love my current XR8, it just doesn't come close to the adrenalin rush the Gen3 gave me.

The can be 1001 reasons why someone would prefer a Holden over any other car. I'm biased to Ford because it's all my father would ever drive but I'm not biased to the point where I would never consider another manufacturer. Culture probably is a lot to do with it. Results on the race track (even though the current cars only share a shell with what you can buy) could be a factor. Performance and the fact that Ford has been playing catchup ever since they re-introduced the V8 back into the range is certainly a contributor amongst a certain age range.

The question I would love answered is...

Why to people blindly follow a manufacturer without even consideration for another make? I know the main reason is based around being a fan, but at the end of the day you're making a considerable financial decision about a car that may not give you the same value for money, performance and/or reliability that you could get from the competing model Holden.

You could find many examples on here of people stating they'd never own a Holden and you could find just as many on a Holden forum stating they'd never own a Ford. I paid $45k for my current Ford, if I thought my money would have been better spent buying a Holden then a Holden would be sitting in my garage.

As for why my decision is generally Ford or Holden... I like a roomy car with a V8.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by MYVYSS

Holden offered me an SS on 3 different occasions to "test drive" for a couple of hours at a time. I couldnt even get a test drive of the BA XR8 (or 6) for that matter.

Neither could I. When the BA first came out the attitude I got was, man, these cars are selling themselves right now, if you don't want one then stand aside while I sign up these people behind you. I got the same attitude at 7 different dealers.

1st Holden dealer I went to he threw me the keys to an SS and gave me $20 to throw in the tank and told me not to come back until the tank was near empty.

I didn't buy that model SS, I ended up buying a low k's model before it from the same salesman and drove away that day a very happy man.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by benzau

Why did I buy a Holden?
Ford REFUSED to fix the problems with my car, they were within tolerance..

In 1 month in my VZ I've done 5200k's, and it was back to Holden 0 times, except for a service/oil change. While it was there they reset my airbag light (I stuffed it up while changing a battery/cluster and it's been beeping), calibrated my fuel gauge, and adjusted the clutch (didn't ask for it to be done, but they noticed a problem)

After sales service is something Ford need to sort out. And making cars that don't die in the **** in the first place would help too

I noticed that too with my SS.

I had an EF that had the aircon sieze (apparently a common problem at around 70,000) and Ford refused to fix it. Car was under warranty but I had to go to an aircon place and pay $1500 to replace the compressor and converted to new gas. I was told the warranty didn't cover that sort of failure even though it clearly did. I wanted aircon, I didn't think I had much of a choice but to go get it fixed elsewhere at my cost.

SS, drop it in for its first service. It had edit, extractors and full system. They noticed a few things wrong that I never new about, came into the service waiting room and advised me of a number of service bulletins they'd like to carry out as well as a number of repairs they had noticed during sceduled service. I'm thinking oh no, how much are they trying to gouge me for so I asked.. how much is this going to cost? Oh, nothing sir.. the car is still under warranty.

Get my XR8, first sceduled service. There's a rattle in the front end that sounds like suspension, take it into the dealer for servicing and advise about the rattle. Done any modifications to the car? Yes, cat back exhaust. We'll probably have to charge you to look at the rattle. But it's under warranty and there's only 30k on the clock...?

[64compact]

I read an artical one time about the winningest car maker in the world was a Ford, and the winningest engine in the world was a Windsor.and the "T" model was made by Henry Ford for the averiage person. even today ford still has this policy to build them good, build them to last and build them so every one can buy them. i don't expect every ford i have owned to be perfect but every one of them has never let me down when i needed it. my first car at 14 was a Xm, then at 15 a 64 Compact, then about 20 Fords since, and only one holden an EH. "Ford build them how i love them to be - Driven" I drive on averiage 80,000k per year. I think if those of you that have service problems with your Ford Dealer find a Ford dealer you click with and you will be happier. most try to be good but sometimes the staff just let the Team down.

[DeansXR8]

when i first became interested in cars,brocky was king,so were the torana's monaro's and the commydores him perkins and gricey drove so i've loved holdens and only owned holdens,while the monaro i've got is also a "i've always wanted one" sorta descision,the XR6T was gonna be the choice had i not got it cause the BA's are very nice but not actually sure if i could have gone through with the ford in the garage as
i think i would cop to much crap off my mates to showing up to the races in a ford with my holden gear on.
dean.

[thunderoo]

I see both sides of the fence every day at work !! I have been a head mechanic / manager in a couple of workshops on the mid north coast of NSW for 12 years now. I grew up and learned to drive in Holdens and didnt want to even look at a Ford. But as i went through my aprenticeship my pride took a huge hit as most of the repairs and breakdowns are Holdens !!! And the more i worked on cars and drove them all for test drives after serviceing i quickly noticed the Fords were a much better finnished of car, almost in every aspect !! Even now (im 35 years old) I service the vy's vz's and the SS and a couple of the v8 Monaro's, but also i service the ba's, xr6,xr8, and some xr6T's. Guess what......the Fords are STILL a much better finnished off car, and still the Holdens are the leading car for tilt tray tow's to the workshop with the exactly the same problems the vn, vr, vp,vs,vt ect ect has !!!!! At the moment we have a vy in the workshop with 38,000 on the clock and only 2 years old.....we are removing the cylinder heads due to failure in the camshaft and damaging the lifter and since the owner thought it was a simple ticking lifter noise he kept driving it and now he has burnt out the valve.....but this is not a 1 off story....we see it every month at least once or twice...brand new commodores with serious engine failures besides the common ones, in a way we love Holdens.....they keep us employed !! Sure we see ba's, xr's come in with troubles ( no car is perfect ) but.....not to the extent we see with the commodores come in with. From somebody that see's it every day and works on both models of cars...... i wouldnt own a Holden if you paid me, the only reason im a very passionate Ford fan is all the years of what i see in the workshop since 1987 when i became an apentice.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by thunderoo

I see both sides of the fence every day at work !! I have been a head mechanic / manager in a couple of workshops on the mid north coast of NSW for 12 years now. I grew up and learned to drive in Holdens and didnt want to even look at a Ford. But as i went through my aprenticeship my pride took a huge hit as most of the repairs and breakdowns are Holdens !!! And the more i worked on cars and drove them all for test drives after serviceing i quickly noticed the Fords were a much better finnished of car, almost in every aspect !! Even now (im 35 years old) I service the vy's vz's and the SS and a couple of the v8 Monaro's, but also i service the ba's, xr6,xr8, and some xr6T's. Guess what......the Fords are STILL a much better finnished off car, and still the Holdens are the leading car for tilt tray tow's to the workshop with the exactly the same problems the vn, vr, vp,vs,vt ect ect has !!!!! At the moment we have a vy in the workshop with 38,000 on the clock and only 2 years old.....we are removing the cylinder heads due to failure in the camshaft and damaging the lifter and since the owner thought it was a simple ticking lifter noise he kept driving it and now he has burnt out the valve.....but this is not a 1 off story....we see it every month at least once or twice...brand new commodores with serious engine failures besides the common ones, in a way we love Holdens.....they keep us employed !! Sure we see ba's, xr's come in with troubles ( no car is perfect ) but.....not to the extent we see with the commodores come in with. From somebody that see's it every day and works on both models of cars...... i wouldnt own a Holden if you paid me, the only reason im a very passionate Ford fan is all the years of what i see in the workshop since 1987 when i became an apentice.

IMO the older Commodores (VB-VL) are more reliable then most of the new Commodores.

The RB30s and 202s maybe old engines but I bet they would be much tougher to break then the old Buick 3800 that the VNs-VSs have.

[gmhdriver]

Hi all,

I've been reading through this forum for a while and finally decided to join up.

I am a proud Holden owner but in no way am I a blind one eyed brand follower and I view all brands objectively.

Why do I drive a Commodore? Because I have found it to suit my needs perfectly. Amongst other things, it is large and spacious, comfortable, powerful, drives quietly and smoothly, is good looking, is good on fuel and most importantly very reliable. I have covered hundreds and thousands of kilometres in various Commodores with very little trouble.
I always test drive a variety of cars before purchasing, but none of them give me a significant reason to change over. There is just someting about the Commodore that makes me feel at home.

Originally Posted by thunderoo

I see both sides of the fence every day at work !! I have been a head mechanic / manager in a couple of workshops on the mid north coast of NSW for 12 years now. I grew up and learned to drive in Holdens and didnt want to even look at a Ford. But as i went through my aprenticeship my pride took a huge hit as most of the repairs and breakdowns are Holdens !!! And the more i worked on cars and drove them all for test drives after serviceing i quickly noticed the Fords were a much better finnished of car, almost in every aspect !! Even now (im 35 years old) I service the vy's vz's and the SS and a couple of the v8 Monaro's, but also i service the ba's, xr6,xr8, and some xr6T's. Guess what......the Fords are STILL a much better finnished off car, and still the Holdens are the leading car for tilt tray tow's to the workshop with the exactly the same problems the vn, vr, vp,vs,vt ect ect has !!!!! At the moment we have a vy in the workshop with 38,000 on the clock and only 2 years old.....we are removing the cylinder heads due to failure in the camshaft and damaging the lifter and since the owner thought it was a simple ticking lifter noise he kept driving it and now he has burnt out the valve.....but this is not a 1 off story....we see it every month at least once or twice...brand new commodores with serious engine failures besides the common ones, in a way we love Holdens.....they keep us employed !! Sure we see ba's, xr's come in with troubles ( no car is perfect ) but.....not to the extent we see with the commodores come in with. From somebody that see's it every day and works on both models of cars...... i wouldnt own a Holden if you paid me, the only reason im a very passionate Ford fan is all the years of what i see in the workshop since 1987 when i became an apentice.

Now as we all know, the Commodore has its faults. But I think you are blowing it way out of proportion here.
For as many failures in Commodores I am sure there would be just as many failures in Fords. I believe that quality and reliability of the two cars is on par with each other. You simply cannot say that one is better than the other. Maybe you may have a larger ratio of Commodores in your area which may explain why you see more of them?

Just a question: You claim you have many 'brand new Commodores in your workshop with engine failures', such as 2yo VY with 38,000km.
These cars would still be covered by GMH factory warranty, so unless you work at a Holden dealership, why on earth would somebody take their car and pay a mechanic top dollar for these repairs when they would be covered by Holden warranty and fixed free of charge?
I am very sceptical about what you are claiming. If you are making it up, then it is very sad that people stoop to these levels to damage Holden's reputation, however if your claim is genuine then no pun intended.

[thunderoo]

Originally Posted by gmhdriver

Hi all,

I've been reading through this forum for a while and finally decided to join up.

I am a proud Holden owner but in no way am I a blind one eyed brand follower and I view all brands objectively.

Why do I drive a Commodore? Because I have found it to suit my needs perfectly. Amongst other things, it is large and spacious, comfortable, powerful, drives quietly and smoothly, is good looking, is good on fuel and most importantly very reliable. I have covered hundreds and thousands of kilometres in various Commodores with very little trouble.
I always test drive a variety of cars before purchasing, but none of them give me a significant reason to change over. There is just someting about the Commodore that makes me feel at home.





Now as we all know, the Commodore has its faults. But I think you are blowing it way out of proportion here.
For as many failures in Commodores I am sure there would be just as many failures in Fords. I believe that quality and reliability of the two cars is on par with each other. You simply cannot say that one is better than the other. Maybe you may have a larger ratio of Commodores in your area which may explain why you see more of them?

Just a question: You claim you have many 'brand new Commodores in your workshop with engine failures', such as 2yo VY with 38,000km.
These cars would still be covered by GMH factory warranty, so unless you work at a Holden dealership, why on earth would somebody take their car and pay a mechanic top dollar for these repairs when they would be covered by Holden warranty and fixed free of charge?
I am very sceptical about what you are claiming. If you are making it up, then it is very sad that people stoop to these levels to damage Holden's reputation, however if your claim is genuine then no pun intended.

Because we are the only peaple in the area that the dealership recomends for us to repair there cars as we do gas, there is nobody qualified at the dealership to repair gas cars.
And as i said before...there is no perfect car, and yes the Fords do have there faults.....but.....there are alot more MAJOR repairs to Holdens than to Fords. Ive lost count with how many gen III engines ive replaced, and alot more major than to Ford. You were saying about more Holdens in the area.....dont think so, we service more Falcons to Commodores....my service records prove it. Im not a person who hates Holden drivers or get into an argument about Holdens and Fords....im too old for that s^#t, i own a very straight and beautiful 75 XB, and when i got to the car shows...i always go to the opposition and chat about there Holden and have a gr8 time, but i would prefer to be a Ford driver / owner any day of the week.....and you cant beat the sound of a worked 351 cleaveland !!!

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by thunderoo

and you cant beat the sound of a worked 351 cleaveland !!!

Yes you can with a N/A RB30

lol sorry just needed to say something smart.

Yeah you're probably right I love the sound of 351s especially in XYs they sound incredible.

[EfiJy]

Originally Posted by Rodp

I've owned 3.
VT2SS. Gen3, excitement machine.. as much as I love my current XR8, it just doesn't come close to the adrenalin rush the Gen3 gave me.

thanks rod for agreeing with me. i made the same point and had my opinion rubbished.

again, why do people buy holdens? i'll let rod's explanation answer the call.

[SSBUB]

Yah for gen 3's!!
Whats that? You didnt hear me?
Hang on ill turn my car off, its the piston slap thats a bit noisy sorry!
Theres thats better!
i said Yah for gen3's!!
wait a sec.....is that oil on the ground from me?


hahaha nah im just kiddin i luv gen 3's i own one and still goin strong at 110k!...shes a lil black bullet...well fast enuff for me anyway

[Bobman]

I still gotta say Ford have alot to answer for with their dealer deparments and quality issues...

As much as I love my blue oval cars, there is alot of catching up to do & win back people who switched camps.

[VooDoo]

Its great to see a potencially volitile subject debated like this without the abuse and flaming thats normally seen. A credit to the members here

Ive always had holdens instead of ford. Im not a ford hater by any means and have owned a few other brands as well (Jeep, Toyota's, even a suzuki). My favorite ford would have to be a XA/B/C Coupe. Pure sex on wheels, agressive and makes a statement. If it wasn't so hard to find a decent one these days id own one.

Personally ford lost me with the "box" design of the XD and for me, it didnt get any better. The EA-EL's did nothing for me and felt very boring and the float of the suspension didnt inspire me at all. The AU... well, nuf said there. Now the BA/BF is out its another story. Ford finally have a car i like. It drives well, good features, seats are comforable, the Boss V8 and XR6T have the performance and overall i love the car.

Why dont i have one? The ford dealer. Ive dealt with many differant dealers through work (car detailer) and have seen all sorts of things. My Holden dealer, while the car hasnt been perfect (rebuilt LS1), has looked after me, kept me informed, listened to what i asked and my concerns.

Ive watched when ppl have been turned away from a ford service center with cars that should be covered under warranty and Ford refuse. Ive been asked to "buff that out" when a mechanic has scratched a car and then watched as the dealer lied to the customer about it when picked up. I have plenty of mates with fords, some of which are happy but most complain about the aftersales service and warranty issues (even on 100% stock cars). Thats what puts me off owning one. Not because they are a bad car, but because IF i do have a problem i dont know if Ford will be behind me the way Holden has in the past. I do realise that there are Holden horror stories as well, but thats been my personal experiance and why i cant see me in a Ford just yet, even though the car is well worth buying.

[rodderz]

Voodoo, you're one of the better and sensible ones over at LS1 land...and you now have one fast LS1 luxo-barge (btw...any times now with the turbo?)

LS1's are a ripper of an engine to mod. Considering they are detuned in stock form, then with the amount of development done on them, they are going great. 11.5's for unopened, low 10's for NA and 7's to 9's isnt anything to browse past.

Sure, I like my Fords better but those LS1's are a great thing, and the older Holden's will always be pure classics

[VooDoo]

Just a couple of shakedown runs so far. Need to sort the stally (its now a 6000rpm one, not by choice either) and the new fuel system goes in on Wed. Then should be good for mid to low 11's in the 2000kg barge

Oh and just to keep things on topic. The LTD etc... what were ford thinking? If you look around there are 100's of stato's and caprices, some looking very nice with the aftermarket mods but i cant recall EVER seeing a modded LTD. What gives? Nobody into the lux-0-barges in Ford land? Its almost like they sell a couple to the limo companies and then they get crushed aferwards. I never see em.....

[The Monty]

Why do people buy holdens? Because they beat Bugatti's

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by SSBUB

I dont get this whole Korean car thing....we all know the daewoo connection, but is it not true Holden spent 12 months redesigning and tinkering to get the daewoo inadequancies out of the lancetti? I think people believe they just whacked a different badge on the daewoo and thats it. Sure, they arent the best cars, but for the price they arent too bad and they are not a daewoo anymore, not in design and name.....have any of you driven a viva yet or are we just speculating because of history of the previous company?

You couldn't be more wrong. Holdens propoganda machine strikes again. All they did was select a different set of shocks out of the Daewoo parts bin and they tried to get rid of the korean car plastic smell. It is still all Daewoo with a Holden badge added, and all the road tests still say it drives crap just like all the Daewoos before it. Every journo who has driven it has written it off, the price is its only redeeming feature.

As for the reason more people buy Holdens, they have the momentum built up from the VT. Fleets turned away from Ford after the resale dropped with the EL and the AU as they were discounted so heavily when the VT was doing so well. Lower resale is a factor, and as both Ford and Holden sell more cars to fleets than private buyers it helps explain the sales figures. Holden also discount the crap out of their cars to sell them while Ford seems content to sell less but make higher profits. This will help them increase resale to bring fleet sales back to them.

Dismall dealers don't help either. Some of the strories you here make you wonder how many future sales are lost because the service departments don't give a stuff about warranty issues.

[EfiJy]

if the holdens were so crap the buying public wouldn't be so stupid as to buy them. the fords are good but not a juge step up on the holdens. i dont think it has anything to do with marketing or pr or brainwashing people. holden have had good product much earlier than ford. the gen3 is such an awesome machine and that built holden a performance reputation. v8s are about performance and now holden have ls2.

[RG]

Originally Posted by EfiJy

if the holdens were so crap the buying public wouldn't be so stupid as to buy them. the fords are good but not a juge step up on the holdens. i dont think it has anything to do with marketing or pr or brainwashing people. holden have had good product much earlier than ford. the gen3 is such an awesome machine and that built holden a performance reputation. v8s are about performance and now holden have ls2.

That's not entirely correct considering that the E series out sold it's Holden competition. Well maybe not the EA but you see what i'm saying.

[xe351]

Originally Posted by EfiJy

the holdens are more exhilarating drives whereas the fords are more cruisers. i gather most people here have never and will never drive holdens before they decide to upgrade to a falcon? :

Mate i've driven vk,vl,vn,vr,vt,vx supercharged, and vy clubby, and can honestly say the only one that was more exhilerating to drive than my 84 XE falcon (6 cylinder at the time) was the clubby.

Both manufacturers have their servicing hassles. My brother had a vy clubby, it needed the clutch and flywheel replacing at 30,000 km's, holden tried to tell him he was doing burnouts and riding the clutch and double clutching the thing and that he would have to pay for it, after lots of hassles he eventually got it done under warranty. Incidently the car had not done any of those things.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by xe351

Mate i've driven vk,vl,vn,vr,vt,vx supercharged, and vy clubby, and can honestly say the only one that was more exhilerating to drive than my 84 XE falcon (6 cylinder at the time) was the clubby.

Both manufacturers have their servicing hassles. My brother had a vy clubby, it needed the clutch and flywheel replacing at 30,000 km's, holden tried to tell him he was doing burnouts and riding the clutch and double clutching the thing and that he would have to pay for it, after lots of hassles he eventually got it done under warranty. Incidently the car had not done any of those things.

Just be thankful that you guys don't have a Kia... my aunty told me about her Kia yesterday. Its done just less than 30,000 and its had a whole heap of stuff replaced, including a new alternator, new clutch, new brake rotors/pads. She did go through the whole list but I only overheard the convo. In other words, the car was a total lemon.

Needless to say, there is no god damn way I'd buy a cheap Korean car (both on principle and good taste).

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by VooDoo

Personally ford lost me with the "box" design of the XD and for me, it didnt get any better.

Love the XD. I had a green one!

Originally Posted by VooDoo

Why dont i have one? The ford dealer. Ive dealt with many differant dealers through work (car detailer) and have seen all sorts of things. My Holden dealer, while the car hasnt been perfect (rebuilt LS1), has looked after me, kept me informed, listened to what i asked and my concerns.

Ive watched when ppl have been turned away from a ford service center with cars that should be covered under warranty and Ford refuse. Ive been asked to "buff that out" when a mechanic has scratched a car and then watched as the dealer lied to the customer about it when picked up. I have plenty of mates with fords, some of which are happy but most complain about the aftersales service and warranty issues (even on 100% stock cars). Thats what puts me off owning one. Not because they are a bad car, but because IF i do have a problem i dont know if Ford will be behind me the way Holden has in the past. I do realise that there are Holden horror stories as well, but thats been my personal experiance and why i cant see me in a Ford just yet, even though the car is well worth buying.

I felt and still feel the same way. My dealer servicing history with Holden has all been A+. They were identifying and fixing faults at scheduled services that I wasn't even aware of. Parramatta and Lansvale if anyone is interested.

Currently I've got a front suspension rattle in my BA that sounds like something is going to fall off the front end. I've been to two scheduled services with two dealerships that advised they tightened and lubed the front suspension. Net result, no change in the hideous rattle. Stereo turned up a few notches to compensate.

I've also got a pretty significant paint defect on the front drivers side quarter panel that I've pointed out to the same dealerships. They looked at me like I was a madman. It's as if someone had a sheet of A4 paper covering a section when they were applying the clear coat so that I've got a rough and discoloured section of paint. No real big deal but it is dissapointing.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Just be thankful that you guys don't have a Kia... my aunty told me about her Kia yesterday. Its done just less than 30,000 and its had a whole heap of stuff replaced, including a new alternator, new clutch, new brake rotors/pads. She did go through the whole list but I only overheard the convo. In other words, the car was a total lemon.

Needless to say, there is no god damn way I'd buy a cheap Korean car (both on principle and good taste).

The Kia Sportage's engine needed rebuilds after 20,000km (this was from a guy that work at a mitsubishi/kia dealership).