Covid 19 -

[T3rminator]

When the leaders we elect to look after our interests require empathy coaching from consultants, what hope does the rest of society have? Serious.

Originally Posted by Tickford.

I'll put my hand up here and say that I have noticed a decline in empathy from myself towards some people. Namely, these anti-lockdown, "freedom" protestors, anti-vaxxer, anti-covid, etc, etc, groups that arose during the pandemic. I've never had such hatred towards people - as I now have towards these people.

Ditto. At the start of the pandemic having too much empathy towards these people gave me mental health issues. Then I lost my patience and feel much better for it. Should I feel bad? Nope.

[falcon_bandit]

Hatred towards people who have differering views than yourself, tickford?

At least u apologized for sounding like a flog I guess

[DRU842]

Its always bigger and badder in the US: https://news.yahoo.com/californias-c...130055544.html

[AlanD]

There is an interesting opinion piece in the New York Times about Covid vaccinations by a virologist at the Georgetown University Medical Centre. (Angela L Rasmussen) It throws a beam of light on the business. Go here if you want to read the article in full:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/23/o...nsmission.html

I found the following pair of paragraphs illuminating ( and they reinforced my understanding!):

"When scientists develop a vaccine against a novel virus, it’s difficult to predict whether vaccination will completely prevent infection — what’s called sterilizing immunity. If the Covid-19 vaccines do not provide sterilizing immunity, it means a vaccinated person can still inhale enough of the SARS-CoV-2 virus to develop an infection, and it will be swiftly cleared from the body before becoming Covid-19, but that person could still pass the infection to another person.

There are many vaccines that do not provide fully sterilizing immunity but nonetheless have huge public health benefits. Every year, the flu vaccine saves lives and keeps people out of the hospital despite the fact that it doesn’t prevent infection altogether."

When the vaccine is available I will get vaccinated. Three reasons:

1. The available evidence suggests that, should I get infected, the likelihood of then progressing to the disease is much lower than it otherwise would be, and
2. The period when I might be infectious to others is limited to a much shorter period, and
3. Being vaccinated will enhance my freedoms, mainly because travelling will be easier - especially across or away from Australia. I expect the majority of airlines will end up requiring passengers to show vaccination evidence before boarding - if they have not already.

Eventually, if enough people get vaccinated, the business of suppression will kick in (like it has with polio and small pox) and the risk factor will drop towards zero.

If your choice is to avoid or delay vaccination, and I will defend your right to do either, I offer that you are increasing your risk factor above what it other wise might be.

One report I have read suggests severe adverse reactions (anaphylaxis) run at 11.1 per million vaccinations. I judge that as a reasonable risk for me.

Cheers

[Citroënbender]

Another NYT browser.

The opinion piece below was referred to me by a close friend, he ultimately lost his father in NY (who had dementia) to coronavirus. It doesn’t offer answers but reflects on many problems raised by this nexus of age-related affliction and epidemic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/19/o...-dementia.html

I will personally delay vaccination for so long as possible, ideally three years from date of public release. That’s ample time to show up any gross issues with it.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by AlanD

I found the following pair of paragraphs illuminating ( and they reinforced my understanding!):

"When scientists develop a vaccine against a novel virus, it’s difficult to predict whether vaccination will completely prevent infection — what’s called sterilizing immunity. If the Covid-19 vaccines do not provide sterilizing immunity, it means a vaccinated person can still inhale enough of the SARS-CoV-2 virus to develop an infection, and it will be swiftly cleared from the body before becoming Covid-19, but that person could still pass the infection to another person.

There are many vaccines that do not provide fully sterilizing immunity but nonetheless have huge public health benefits. Every year, the flu vaccine saves lives and keeps people out of the hospital despite the fact that it doesn’t prevent infection altogether."

And I think this is why gov should be doing more to educate people on how the vaccine works. A lot of people automatically assume the vaccine stops you from getting it and transmitting it, so when they read a scientific journal (or hear someone else on the internet refer to it) they think gov has been lying to them, and hence born a new anti CV19 vaxxer.

[ford71V8]

Putting 4X the amount into the arm of elderly people wont help public opinion.

[russellw]

Data valid as at 00:00 GMT February 23rd, 2021.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

7 new case for Australia and no deaths so the CMR is 3.141%.

6 new cases and 0 deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.100% and active cases 54.

The UK had 8,489 cases yesterday and 548 deaths.

Just under 62k new cases in the USA yesterday and 1,376 deaths sees CMR up to 1.778%. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
None

No countries (for the 2nd consecutive day)

... recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

Most countries are now running 10 day average case numbers below their 90th percentile but there are exceptions including:

Asia: Iraq, Indonesia, Bahrain, UAE, Kuwait, Sri Lanka, Palestine, Malaysia and Jordan.
Europe: Greece, Moldova, Albania, Finland, Latvia, Malta, Estonia, Slovakia and Czechia.
South America: Brazil, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru and Uruguay.
North America: Only Cuba.
Africa: Nigeria, Ethiopia, Zambia, Ghana, Mozambique, Senegal and the Ivory Coast.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by falcon_bandit

Hatred towards people who have differering views than yourself, tickford?

At least u apologized for sounding like a flog I guess

not many have thanked that post eh, infact just the usual suspect to date.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by FTE217

not many have thanked that post eh, infact just the usual suspect to date.

Despite the popularity contest, the usual suspect appreciates a bit of honesty...

[Citroënbender]

Normality is returning. In the carpark of Bunnings today, I was assailed by the “white van selling cheap speakers”.

[Bent8]

Ok, anyone that is sick of the fear mongering by the news media can click here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LToSnpz8A4

The PCR test above 32 cycles is meaningless and even the inventor, Kary Mullis admits this. No surprise that he passed away just months before this whole "plandemic" began!

CV-19 is just another flu strain being used to impose restrictions on the population. "Dictator Dan" is already in trouble...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcFsu9ZDET4

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Ok, anyone that is sick of the fear mongering by the news media can click here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LToSnpz8A4

Koch's postulates don't even apply to viruses... but hey, lets not let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory. He can't even put excess deaths in any meaningful context, trying to blame them on over-treatment, while ignoring the fact that in many locations patients were triaged not treated, especially in the early days of the pandemic in Italy.

There's a reason we used to treat the 'research' conducted by doctors with disdain...

[Work Horse]

A year on they are still out there

Millions dead, tens of millions infected, health systems over run in first world countries, morgues unable to keep up with demand, bodies stored in freezer trucks and who knows the long term psychological damage.

And some still believe it was all made up for some farcical conspiracy theory they can not actually articulate.

[MITCHAY]

With a more conected world you'd hope people are more informed but it's also just another vector for creating more misinformed people.

There is a difference between having opposing views and just believeing in outright BS

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by falcon_bandit

Hatred towards people who have differering views than yourself, tickford?

At least u apologized for sounding like a flog I guess

Yeah, I guess. At least you don't have to apologise for being a total flog.... in your posts.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

Nah I would not go that far as hating them as everyone is entitled to their own opinion; free world, Just like religion you either believe in god or not.
Cheers.

Agree Orificemanager. You are entitled to your opinion. I'm allowed to voice mine. Free world. Move right along.

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by ford71V8

Putting 4X the amount into the arm of elderly people wont help public opinion.

I admit to a degree of sympathy for the practitioner who has basically been thrown under a bus. There would be a lot of pressure on everyone involved to get vaccinations happening.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

Agree Orificemanager. You are entitled to your opinion. I'm allowed to voice mine. Free world. Move right along.

Don't get too angry with hate otherwise you will be a very bitter person.

[T3rminator]

What happens if we can't get vaccination rates up where it should be? 70 to 80% is what is needed I heard.
Reading some of the comments on social media I think we are going to struggle. Health officials and politicians promoting the vaccine are being bombarded with a lot of negative views. Where did they all come from?!

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

health systems over run in first world countries

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...g+during+covid

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I admit to a degree of sympathy for the practitioner who has basically been thrown under a bus. There would be a lot of pressure on everyone involved to get vaccinations happening.

Yeah I reckon when he tops up his car with oil he fills the engine up to the cap.......

It scares me that doctors are actually no smarter than the rest of the community, they just went to a school longer.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Yeah I reckon when he tops up his car with oil he fills the engine up to the cap.......



It scares me that doctors are actually no smarter than the rest of the community, they just went to a school longer.

They are multi dose vials. Not your usual flu jabs where its one vial per person.
The doc didn't undertake the training so he wasn't aware. Very lucky they caught it after 2 people.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

They are multi dose vials. Not your usual flu jabs where its one vial per person.
The doc didn't undertake the training so he wasn't aware. Very lucky they caught it after 2 people.

I don't really understand this; if he didn't know how much to use then he should have got the information he needed. If he was given wrong information then he's off the hook. They say doctors bury their mistakes. In this case that hasn't happened, both patients are still ok as far as I know.

[Citroënbender]

Are they really using MBBS or better qualified people to administer an injection?

Surely that can be done by an RN. And if “real doctors” are involved, would they not be (at least morally) obligated to undertake a basic consultation/examination for each recipient? That would affect the time scale for processing doses.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

They are multi dose vials. Not your usual flu jabs where its one vial per person.
The doc didn't undertake the training so he wasn't aware. Very lucky they caught it after 2 people.

Yeah oil comes in 5 litre containers, you don't pour it all in.

I saw on the news that there were 5 doses per vial. I saw on the news that they are wasting 1 shot per vial as we cannot get the custom needles that get the full use of each vial.

We should not be "lucky" that a doctor would just shoot whatever amount into only two people without any understanding, you are being way too kind to him or her.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Yeah oil comes in 5 litre containers, you don't pour it all in.

I saw on the news that there were 5 doses per vial. I saw on the news that they are wasting 1 shot per vial as we cannot get the custom needles that get the full use of each vial.

We should not be "lucky" that a doctor would just shoot whatever amount into only two people without any understanding, you are being way too kind to him or her.

I'm trying to show some empathy here

Its a case of you don't know what you don't know. If the practitioner skipped the training and lied about it, then throw the book at him/her. But if the doctor was just given a needle and told "off you go" then Healthcare Australia has a lot to answer for. I think its more like you are taught to pour the 5L container into an engine that takes 5L. Then one day the manufacturer changes the container design and you are not told/trained that it now holds 7L.

5 doses per vial seems really strange though. I think germany had the same issue where they over administered to some elderly people, but they all ended up ok.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

I'm trying to show some empathy here

Its a case of you don't know what you don't know. If the practitioner skipped the training and lied about it, then throw the book at him/her. But if the doctor was just given a needle and told "off you go" then Healthcare Australia has a lot to answer for. I think its more like you are taught to pour the 5L container into an engine that takes 5L. Then one day the manufacturer changes the container design and you are not told/trained that it now holds 7L.

5 doses per vial seems really strange though. I think germany had the same issue where they over administered to some elderly people, but they all ended up ok.

If this is still the labelling on the vial, I have to wonder if too much empathy breeds incompetence

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by tweeked

If this is still the labelling on the vial, I have to wonder if too much empathy breeds incompetence

image

You win.

[HIPO]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

What happens if we can't get vaccination rates up where it should be? 70 to 80% is what is needed I heard.
Reading some of the comments on social media I think we are going to struggle. Health officials and politicians promoting the vaccine are being bombarded with a lot of negative views. Where did they all come from?!

Research other than MSM i suppose........