The Motor Trades Association of Queensland is pushing for annual vehicle inspections

[jamies]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

So your saying in NSW ,theres no phone worthies,or mates of mates who turn blind eyes ???
All rwc are 100 % legit ......

Exactly 302 XC, There would still be unroadworthy poo boxes driving around in NSW. In every state there is still people who have worked out how to get around the system.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

What is the point of checking brand new cars??

I don't see the point of that.

I see the point of it. blown lights, leaks are not just limited too cars over 5 years old. how many company cars have you seen then have had the guts flogged out of them that are under 3years old. I've seen a few and its people like that who don't maintain their cars. I drove a 2005 Mercedes vito van for a company in 2006 for example and when I first hoped in and looked at it.( remember car was not even a year old at the time. had 32,000kms up on it and had bald tyres and rear suspension issues due too being over loaded. certainly not Mercedes Benz fault in anyway. just the owners of the van seen it as only a work vehicle and subsequently was never looked after. in 2008 (car was 3 years old at the time) had a smashed rear led light at the back. this makes it unroadworthy. the light was never fixed until some poor sap got pulled over by police. thou lucky for him. he was only left with a warning. then after that suspension went again (from being over loaded) also some idiot fitted a normal car tyre instead of a cargo type tyre (ever other tyre was a cargo tyre) and too make matters worse the tread pattern was different. the normal car tyre was fitted on the left hand front wheel. very sure that's not only illegal but dam bloody dangerous. and finally in 2011 (just over 5 years old.) the brakes were on the way out. you could put you foot pretty much too floor with the brake pedal. had warning lights on and yet owners wouldn't fix until the van brakes fail and lucky for the poor bustard driving only hit a garage door in Brisbane. what would of happened if that happened at high speed?? you don't see the point but I do!!! that's a safety issue!! its people like that that cause problems. as far as i'm concerned if you cant afford maintaince on new car you cant afford it and you sure as hell don't deserve it!!

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by flappist

ALL cars sold by a licensed dealer already must have a roadworthy certificate.
ALL cars that have their registration transferred (except in specific rare cases) must have a road worthy certificate.
This has be the law for decades.

What is your actual point here?

read my reply to dash GT. that's my point!! a one year old car can still be unroadworthy!!! so it should include cars under 5 years old as well

[flappist]

Originally Posted by wildrider

read my reply to dash GT. that's my point!! a one year old car can still be unroadworthy!!! so it sound include cars under 5 years old as well

Yes but 1 year old is not brand new which was my point.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by wildrider

I see the point of it. blown lights, leaks are not just limited too cars over 5 years old. how many company cars have you seen then have had the guts flogged out of them that are under 3years old. I've seen a few and its people like that who don't maintain their cars. I drove a 2005 Mercedes vito van for a company in 2006 for example and when I first hoped in and looked at it.( remember car was not even a year old at the time. had 32,000kms up on it and had bald tyres and rear suspension issues due too being over loaded. certainly not Mercedes Benz fault in anyway. just the owners of the van seen it as only a work vehicle and subsequently was never looked after. in 2008 (car was 3 years old at the time) had a smashed rear led light at the back. this makes it unroadworthy. the light was never fixed until some poor sap got pulled over by police. thou lucky for him. he was only left with a warning. then after that suspension went again (from being over loaded) also some idiot fitted a normal car tyre instead of a cargo type tyre (ever other tyre was a cargo tyre) and too make matters worse the tread pattern was different. the normal car tyre was fitted on the left hand front wheel. very sure that's not only illegal but dam bloody dangerous. and finally in 2011 (just over 5 years old.) the brakes were on the way out. you could put you foot pretty much too floor with the brake pedal. had warning lights on and yet owners wouldn't fix until the van brakes fail and lucky for the poor bustard driving only hit a garage door in Brisbane. what would of happened if that happened at high speed?? you don't see the point but I do!!! that's a safety issue!! its people like that that cause problems. as far as i'm concerned if you cant afford maintaince on new car you cant afford it and you sure as hell don't deserve it!!

Exactly...I was in a work car a while ago...a four month old Prado...and while they stand up to the abuse out here admirably, this one had rattles, squeeks, a badly fitting rear door seal that let in exhaust fumes, and wonky steering...it also had over 60,000km on it...

"New" or "near new" doesn't automatically mean it's going to be fault-free and pristine...

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by MercurySilver

good 'ol SA
no MOT or car checks here

MTA pushes for the same thing in SA every now and then.. blows over goes all quiet again..

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

"New" or "near new" doesn't automatically mean it's going to be fault-free and pristine...

I can agree with that
My brand new ford courier i bought a few years ago,had stuffed rear wheel bearings from new .......
Had less than 9,000Ks and less than 3 months old,and they were shot ...
If its a mandatory yearly road worthy,it has to be fair for all motorists,and includes all cars ,trucks,busses,bikes,whatever.....
Regos are the same for all 4 pots,6 pots and 8 sluggers,regardless of size,or age ,brand,model ect
1 rule for all,or no rule for all
Cant discriminate new from old, ford from holden,mazda from toyota
Across the board or nothin
Theres alot of restorers,collectors,diehard old skool people whos cars are probably safer,more road worthy than most 3,4, 5 year old cars

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well actually as the thread is about QLD, I live in QLD and drive in QLD I have a bit of an idea of what goes on here.

A car cannot be advertised for sale without a current RWC.
A car cannot be registered or have registration transferred without a current RWC, the exception being that new cars must be predelivered by a licensed dealer who is legally responsible for the vehicle's roadworthyness.
We have random roadworthy checks done along with license and breath test on very regular intevals.
TMR also run large scale opperations where all cars are stopped and inspected and those that are suspect have a few weeks to prove they are roadworthy.
The traffic branch and to a lesser extent GD target crappy vehicles and it is not uncommon to see then on the side of the road with blue tape waiting to be picked up on a tray.


Now if YOU want to change the law in SA then YOU lobby your local politicians.

I live in QLD too. I can confirm that this does happen but it doesn't stop the unroadworthy cars I see advertised on the side of the road for sale. I also see a lot of cars for sale in the papers in classifieds for sale with out roadworthys and on the net. there are people that do dodgy roadworthies in queensland. I think this is a bit of a problem in all states. while my mechanic is pretty strict. (which I am thankfull for) I trust him as he is honest and lets me know. doesn't rip me off but will say straight out if theres a safety issue. I have heard stories of people that will write out a roadworthy out for a carton. I worked with someone who was selling his ute and said hes dad would write out a roadworthy for it for a cartoon of ****. I'd never buy a car of anyone that said that too me. it does make you wonder what would be wrong with it???

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes but 1 year old is not brand new which was my point.

well my point was all cars under 5 years old should be included I understand that a new car should be roadworthy. but as soon driven of the lot the rules of roadworthy apply

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

I can agree with that
My brand new ford courier i bought a few years ago,had stuffed rear wheel bearings from new .......
Had less than 9,000Ks and less than 3 months old,and they were shot ...
If its a mandatory yearly road worthy,it has to be fair for all motorists,and includes all cars ,trucks,busses,bikes,whatever.....
Regos are the same for all 4 pots,6 pots and 8 sluggers,regardless of size,or age ,brand,model ect
1 rule for all,or no rule for all
Cant discriminate new from old, ford from holden,mazda from toyota
Across the board or nothin
Theres alot of restorers,collectors,diehard old skool people whos cars are probably safer,more road worthy than most 3,4, 5 year old cars

that's very true . collectors and enthusiast are more likely too have a well looked after car then the people that don't care about there car or hoons etc. we have three cars here. 2 AU falcons and a N16 pulsar as soon as we noticed something is wrong we make sure too have it fixed promptly. even if they where brand new or over 20 years old. I've always had a thing for maintaining cars. I also find that if you by a car you like it also helps you want too maintain it. the pulsar is the missus car. while its not something I would buy. I don't mind driving it around town. so I look after it as well. it all comes down too maintenance if you ask me.

[vanman_75]

Out of interest is there stats on unroadworthy cars and their contribution to accidents/ road toll etc ..because in my youth I reckon all I drove was cars with some unroadworthy issues..can't even think of a time that I saw a shizbox cause a drama , except maybe a chuckle from myself.

[russellw]

They used to separate them in the statistics but they aren't generally considered to be a major impact now (at least in fatal crashes) particularly when the political focus is on speed, drugs and alcohol. Always handy to make sure the statistics support what you want them to....

Cheers
Russ

[GREGL]

In a perfect world a yearly inspection would be a positive move , everyone would be driving a perfectly safe vehicle and there would be no accidents. In that same perfect world we would have speed limiters , ignition imobilisers and yearly driving tests . I'll add to that and say manditory drug tests . I only say that because surely some people appear to be on another planet while doing there daily commute. According to some people here some if not all of the above should be implemented . Wow ,there certainly are some utopians here .
F.F.S you can try and impliment all the rules and regs you like the ones that want to break the law will ignore it . The only people it will really hurt is the honest ones . or in this case the ones that maintain their cars to a SAFE standard .
You cannot outlaw ignorance , stupidty or outright arrogance in joe public , it's just not possible . If , and its a big if , the inspections were infalllible and above board it would be a positive move but any as most of us know there is always a way to beat the system .
End result , the honest ones are out of pocket and stuffed around while the actual targets keep on rolling .
MY suggestion , go back to the old days of more visible presence of police in marked cars
and pulling the s/boxes over at the time .
By the way , why is a indicator a R.W.C item no one uses em' lol

[XR6TCraig]

Off topic I know but.....

What is it with some of you guys and speed limiters.

Are you suggesting these would actually save lives?

Ever tried to pass a slower vehicle on a single carriageway with a speed limiter? Very scary, and potentially much, much more dangerous than doing a little bit more speed to get around safely!

These may work in your perfect world scenarios full of dual carriageways but out in the real world they have the potential to kill more people than they would save.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by XR6TCraig

Off topic I know but.....

What is it with some of you guys and speed limiters.

Are you suggesting these would actually save lives?

Ever tried to pass a slower vehicle on a single carriageway with a speed limiter? Very scary, and potentially much, much more dangerous than doing a little bit more speed to get around safely!

These may work in your perfect world scenarios full of dual carriageways but out in the real world they have the potential to kill more people than they would save.

Truck drivers put up with them every day, I have driven B-Doubles with them, it is no big deal

And if you are overtaking people AND exceeding the speed limit to do it, then you are a very naughty driver. There are no exceptions for overtaking, the speed limit is the speed limit. One of the most dangerous manouevres you can do as a driver is put yourself into on coming traffic, this should be done with great care and bloody good visibility, there should be no need to rush. Having to rush means you are taking a too bigger risk and not doing it safely - what is the rush?

If you have to speed to overtake then either you haven't taken the time to look clearly, you are doing it in a bad spot, you have picked an unsafe gap, you are just tooo impatient, which one are you?

[4.0i_SiX]

Originally Posted by wildrider

I live in QLD too. I can confirm that this does happen but it doesn't stop the unroadworthy cars I see advertised on the side of the road for sale. I also see a lot of cars for sale in the papers in classifieds for sale with out roadworthys and on the net. there are people that do dodgy roadworthies in queensland. I think this is a bit of a problem in all states. while my mechanic is pretty strict. (which I am thankfull for) I trust him as he is honest and lets me know. doesn't rip me off but will say straight out if theres a safety issue. I have heard stories of people that will write out a roadworthy out for a carton. I worked with someone who was selling his ute and said hes dad would write out a roadworthy for it for a cartoon of ****. I'd never buy a car of anyone that said that too me. it does make you wonder what would be wrong with it???

There is nothing wrong with selling a car without a roadworthy if its not registered. Or if it will be sold unregistered.

Seeing some of the crap boxes come in to work over the years, Im all for it. One always stands out to me. An old mercedes come in to have the aircon repaired. Owner threw me the keys. I jumped in only to be met with a massive eye stinging fuel smell. Fired her up and moved it into the shed. It had virtually no brakes ( had to pump pedal ) and when I finally got a brake pedal and come to a hault, it felt like the balljoints were going to fall out of the front end. Aircon would be the last thing on my list if it were my car.

As long as its regulated properly and is not a full on check thats way overboard. Why not? The problem is workshops and the government get too greedy

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

If you have to speed to overtake then either you haven't taken the time to look clearly, you are doing it in a bad spot, you have picked an unsafe gap, you are just tooo impatient, which one are you?

less time spent in the oncoming lane the better. I wont overtake if not safe, but if i have to stick to 100, then i'll need to find a mile long straight/overtaking lane (of which there are none).

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Truck drivers put up with them every day, I have driven B-Doubles with them, it is no big deal

And if you are overtaking people AND exceeding the speed limit to do it, then you are a very naughty driver. There are no exceptions for overtaking, the speed limit is the speed limit. One of the most dangerous manouevres you can do as a driver is put yourself into on coming traffic, this should be done with great care and bloody good visibility, there should be no need to rush. Having to rush means you are taking a too bigger risk and not doing it safely - what is the rush?

If you have to speed to overtake then either you haven't taken the time to look clearly, you are doing it in a bad spot, you have picked an unsafe gap, you are just tooo impatient, which one are you?

And in the extremely common scenario where you have been following a vehicle at 85km/h for a long time and when you finally get to an overtaking zone they speed up to 100 then slow down again at the other end what is your answer to that?

Many people are timid drivers and are not comfortable with the idea of a vehicle travelling in the opposite direction being close as is the case in simple two lane road and tend to slow down only to speed up when they feel safer in the four lane overtaking zone. This is not just my opinion but has been spoken about by many in road safety including our own Police minister some years ago.

Remember as a truck driver the purpose of your driving is to transport materials from point A to point B. This is why you are paid.
Others drive to point B for other purposes and are only paid for what they do after they have arrived therefore wasting time on the road while waiting for incompetent drivers is a frustrating and costly.

Then of course there is the horrendous crime speeding while overtaking on an ordinary two lane road. The vast majority of fatal accidents involve a head on collision.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a head on collision if neither vehicle is on the wrong side of the road so the less time spent there the less chance of a head on especially when you are overtaking a line of trucks who are sitting too close to each other slipstreaming to save fuel which is also not uncommon.

In a perfect world where all roads are 4 lanes and all distances short then your position may be viable but here in Australia where the roads are long and narrow reality does not follow your theory.

[FGII-XR6]

Always remember the 3 types of lies. there a lies, whoppers and statistics

Originally Posted by vanman_75

Out of interest is there stats on unroadworthy cars and their contribution to accidents/ road toll etc ..because in my youth I reckon all I drove was cars with some unroadworthy issues..can't even think of a time that I saw a shizbox cause a drama , except maybe a chuckle from myself.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by XR6TCraig

Off topic I know but.....

What is it with some of you guys and speed limiters.

Are you suggesting these would actually save lives?

Ever tried to pass a slower vehicle on a single carriageway with a speed limiter? Very scary, and potentially much, much more dangerous than doing a little bit more speed to get around safely!

These may work in your perfect world scenarios full of dual carriageways but out in the real world they have the potential to kill more people than they would save.

Holden had a commo years ago,that when the hammer goes down it shuts down
Its designed to be a progressive power up,and was marketed as cheap to run
My mates mum bought one, and its dangerous
Pull out to do a slow truck, and expect it too take ages to get around,you need a long stretch,
We had 1 incident where a car turned into a street then pulled back out, we went to go around,put the foot down and nothin happened,was a whisker from a bad situation
A normal car ,with power can go round slow trucks and power out of most situation,so limited,power or speed is dangerous
But it doesnt really matter what we have ,or our power,it the other idiots out there
We had to stop on a main highway because a b double wanted to overtake comin towards us
Yep we stopped and got of the road, and he only just had enuf room
We can have the safest,best cars in the world,theres always gunna be idiots who risk others

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by flappist

And in the extremely common scenario where you have been following a vehicle at 85km/h for a long time and when you finally get to an overtaking zone they speed up to 100 then slow down again at the other end

That annoys me immensly
Out my way its all 100K outback single laned highways,and a majority is double lined
The amount of idiots who overtake dangerously is just ridiculous,read my post above
Every blind corner we come to, we slow down , because the amount of times we come around those corners and people on our road side is scary
People have the attitude of "They will move,im goin around"
Problem is the roads are rubbish,and getting of the road to accomidate these idiots can cause damage to my car/cars as the roads are only a coupla inches past the side road white line ..
But the major point is, why should i or others get of our direction of path to accomidate these idiots

[H.G]

I hope it happens soon.. if only to annoy all the QLDers... :P
I have no objection getting a pink slip every 12 months. in fact I miss them. Its also piece of mind for people who dont/cant maintain their own vehicles.. like the elderly or physically impaired.. or even just the average person who could care less about how a car works.. as long as it works when they need it.
I know it might come as a shock to most.. but to some people CARS are just a mode of transport.. nothing to get excited over.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by H.G

I hope it happens soon.. if only to annoy all the QLDers... :P
I have no objection getting a pink slip every 12 months. in fact I miss them. Its also piece of mind for people who dont/cant maintain their own vehicles.. like the elderly or physically impaired.. or even just the average person who could care less about how a car works.. as long as it works when they need it.
I know it might come as a shock to most.. but to some people CARS are just a mode of transport.. nothing to get excited over.

Do you currently get a complete roadworthy check every year now?

Not a quick check by a mechanic during a service but the actual "ticks in the boxes" RWC certification and if so can you post a pic of the last 3 or 4 on here to confirm it?

Despite all of the emotion in this entire thread, the call for this was not from the Government, not from the Police service, not from the RACQ and not even from the "Do gooders, whingers and wowsers, rainbows and unicorns collective" (the AFF members who obviously part of this group can check their carbon neutral environmentally friendly tofu flavoured news letter just in case).

It has come from the MTAQ which is basically a union that represents members of the motor vehicle trade as in those who would be the ones who will make a lot of money out of such legislation.

I wonder if the said law was brought in but the checks were free for all car owners and each MTAQ member had to do say 10 a week per employee at their own cost to retain their business licenses would they still support the idea?

As in it does not make them money, it costs THEM money instead of costing everyone else money. After all it is all about safety and money is no issue........

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by flappist

Do you currently get a complete roadworthy check every year now?

Not a quick check by a mechanic during a service but the actual "ticks in the boxes" RWC certification and if so can you post a pic of the last 3 or 4 on here to confirm it?

Despite all of the emotion in this entire thread, the call for this was not from the Government, not from the Police service, not from the RACQ and not even from the "Do gooders, whingers and wowsers, rainbows and unicorns collective" (the AFF members who obviously part of this group can check their carbon neutral environmentally friendly tofu flavoured news letter just in case).

It has come from the MTAQ which is basically a union that represents members of the motor vehicle trade as in those who would be the ones who will make a lot of money out of such legislation.

I wonder if the said law was brought in but the checks were free for all car owners and each MTAQ member had to do say 10 a week per employee at their own cost to retain their business licenses would they still support the idea?

As in it does not make them money, it costs THEM money instead of costing everyone else money. After all it is all about safety and money is no issue........

So your blaming the MTAQ for supporting stimulation in their industry?
What do you expect them to do...

Everywhere you go money is tight at the moment.
Its needless to say that car servicing to some is a luxury less thought of at a time like now.
Im sure there would be plenty of roadworthy issues that are going unattended.
In my area alone a number of small mechanical workshops have gone under which may have survived had they recieved a small turnover from this type of scheme.
Whilst im not the type of person to lobby for it in SA, i would support the notion entirely.

[BF-2K7]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

In my area alone a number of small mechanical workshops have gone under which may have survived had they recieved a small turnover from this type of scheme.

My mechanic is a sole trader, and works out of a small workshop, servicing and maintaining vehicles, as well as doing RWC, which makes up as large proportion of his income.

Any vehicle I take into him for servicing, he will look over, and should it need repairs, he will tell me what the fault is, and the cost for replacement/repairs.

RWC are his main source of income, as he works on his own, and only takes on as much work as he can handle. I trust him with my life to make sure my vehicle, and the other vehicles I drive for work, are safe to drive for everyone.

As our work vehicles are frequently driven by employees (9 vehicles all tolled) the onus is on us (and our mechanic) to make sure all vehicle are road worthy and safe.

Should one of our employees be involved in an accident (and it has happened) the Police, Work Cover & the insurance company would look over the damaged vehicle with a fine toothed comb (which they did) to find everything in order.

Should we not have had a valid RWC (or they not be in a roadworthy condition) we would have been charged with negligance, and the insurance would not have paid out, for the sake of a few dollars we cover ourselves and our employees.

A RWC is piece of mind to all and sundry, and no amount of chest beating from arrogant nay sayers will convince me that its not.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by BF-2K7

As our work vehicles are frequently driven by employees (9 vehicles all tolled) the onus is on us (and our mechanic) to make sure all vehicle are road worthy and safe.

What makes sense for a business doesn't necessarily make sense for a personal use.

I don't need a RWC as our 2 new cars get serviced at the dealer twice a year. There is only 2 of us driving them. I don't tag and test my electrical appliances at home either. I also don't put warning labels on the kettle. I don't password protect my computers. I can also slap my wife on the bum and I don't have to see HR about sexual assault.

[BF-2K7]

Originally Posted by cs123

What makes sense for a business doesn't necessarily make sense for a personal use.

I don't need a RWC as our 2 new cars get serviced at the dealer twice a year. There is only 2 of us driving them. I don't tag and test my electrical appliances at home either. I also don't put warning labels on the kettle. I don't password protect my computers. I can also slap my wife on the bum and I don't have to see HR about sexual assault.

....... your 2 new cars will get old and worn, so you could get a RWC (should it be implemented) whilst they are being serviced without any inconvenience to you.

As for your kettle, computer and wife, they are not in the public realm when being used (or abused) so that point is mute, as they are not hurtling down the open freeway at 110kph amongst other road users.

As for the business side of things, there are vast amounts of company vehicles out there on the roads from motorcycles, cars, trucks and buses in every state, Im sure anyone jumping in behind the wheel would feel better knowing it had a RWC.

In saying that the law will prosecute the driver of a defective vehicle and not the owner, it is up to the driver to make sure the vehicle is in a safe condition to be driven on the road (under present laws) so having a RWC would also be peace of mind that any driver sitting behind the wheel would not be up for a fine. This also pertains to driving your 'mates' car or any car that you may drive that is not yours.

[vanman_75]

So you think your car is safe because its got a rwc, does he give guarantee that your brakes wont fail for twelve months , tyres blow , windscreens crack ...I could go on but no rwc makes a vehicle safe, it only makes it pass a test on a given day with in my case up to 40000 more kms on the clock which is a a lot for a rwc to cover .yes I see your point but if your not mechanical /or its just transport .then those people should see a mechanic a little more often than 12 months

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by BF-2K7

My mechanic is a sole trader, and works out of a small workshop, servicing and maintaining vehicles, as well as doing RWC, which makes up as large proportion of his income.

Any vehicle I take into him for servicing, he will look over, and should it need repairs, he will tell me what the fault is, and the cost for replacement/repairs.

RWC are his main source of income, as he works on his own, and only takes on as much work as he can handle. I trust him with my life to make sure my vehicle, and the other vehicles I drive for work, are safe to drive for everyone.


A RWC is piece of mind to all and sundry, and no amount of chest beating from arrogant nay sayers will convince me that its not.

My mother in law is in her late 70s
Gets her car regularly serviced by the same bloke, has done for years
They are a reputable business, and do RWCs as well
last service she got done,it was noted on the service docket,
"Windscreen washer bottle doesnt work,radiator leaks,front brakes about 15 % , front tyres just legal"
Wouldnt you think they would ring her regarding these if they were a safety issue ???
I fixed all the issues, tyres booked fitted, new rad ordered , done the whole lot in under a few hours, and i aint no mechanic
But instead they sent a 70 year old woman on her way .........
Was i amused, nope, does she take her car there anymore,nope
I understand in a perfect world, your correct in your point,but noone lives in a perfect world

[blackf6]

Originally Posted by flappist

And in the extremely common scenario where you have been following a vehicle at 85km/h for a long time and when you finally get to an overtaking zone they speed up to 100 then slow down again at the other end what is your answer to that?

Say a few swear words under my breath, then do the only thing that you can do. Even though it gets under my skin, but drop back to safe following distance and wait for another passing opportunity. Or pull over for a half an hour break and by that time the road hog is most probably gone.