FG FPV GT Rspec vs VF HSV GTS by MOTOR Mag

[au2000]

Well for me I'll give credit where credit is due and for the price &engine size if it was not quicker than the fpv's it would be a major fail..... Mind u sept next year however when the xr8 appears I reckon there will be some mighty shy gts owners pulling up next to a substantially (you'd hope) creeper fh xr8's I'm predicting ....

[CAMS290]

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

Opportunity knocks when parent has a LSA engine they can throw you that'll produce all the grunt you may wish for....kind of easy to focus your budget on the surrounding kit. BUT...that doesn't belittle the package. Just a better base to work with. And it all works as a package, half the exercise is in that. I need to define my position though, I still can't look at one and think it's visuals match the magic. I've seen a few and it's pretty typical of overzealous HSV 'look at me' overstyling. Of course while I bought a FG I still prefer the more 'together' BA/BF looks. If anything the plainer FG's (G6ET, F6E etc) are the ticket which show off it's styling best.

I actually rekon that the VF model HSV's have a much more coherent grown up style compared to the E2 and E3 VE's which were a hideous abomination of different fake vents, diffusers and other sorts of tacked on crap.

[lucas2]

The GTS is obviously the better overall package straight out of the showroom. However, for all you turbo and miami guys I would still be confident pulling up next to one on the street, not so much on the track though.

[Alan D Segal]

Originally Posted by lucas2

The GTS is obviously the better overall package straight out of the showroom. However, for all you turbo and miami guys I would still be confident pulling up next to one on the street, not so much on the track though.

It is also at least 30% more expensive than a GT or F6, so it'd want to be better out of the factory IMHO.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by au2000

Well for me I'll give credit where credit is due and for the price &engine size if it was not quicker than the fpv's it would be a major fail..... Mind u sept next year however when the xr8 appears I reckon there will be some mighty shy gts owners pulling up next to a substantially (you'd hope) creeper fh xr8's I'm predicting ....

Why would they be shy ? same engine different day and it'll be just like groundhog day. Autocar N.Z. have a best time 0-100 k.p.h. for a GTS that's a full second quicker than the best they ever got out of a SC FPV.

[Alan D Segal]

In Queensland it is more of a case of "why have your car impounded for street racing" anyway.

EDIT: Rodge I see you edited your post after I posted this, taking out the bit about keeping a low profile if you pull up next to a GTS, rather than ruining your day by racing and losing. May post makes more sense if you hadn't edited yours

[Rodge]

Yeah Al I can't see the point of handing a VF HSV GTS driver a free lunch, any other HSV model its game-on though

[au2000]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Why would they be shy ? same engine different day and it'll be just like groundhog day. Autocar N.Z. have a best time 0-100 k.p.h. for a GTS that's a full second quicker than the best they ever got out of a SC FPV.

cause for me & its just my opinion up to $40 grand extra (depending on xr8 pricing) for 1 second is a huge price for a road car !

[Alan D Segal]

Originally Posted by au2000

cause for me & its just my opinion up to $40 grand extra (depending on xr8 pricing) for 1 second is a huge price for a road car !

There's a market for it. I'm not in it either but clearly there's some people out there who do buy them and who do care about that. Or maybe they just want the 'best' and most expensive Holden car available at the moment? Who knows? I'm not going to lose any sleep on it.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by au2000

cause for me & its just my opinion up to $40 grand extra (depending on xr8 pricing) for 1 second is a huge price for a road car !

Its the simple law of diminishing returns mate that once you go under 0-100 in 5.0 seconds you've got to pay a lot more to go a bit faster but I agree with the thrust of what you're saying, the XR8 is probably going to be great bang for buck.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by au2000

cause for me & its just my opinion up to $40 grand extra (depending on xr8 pricing) for 1 second is a huge price for a road car !

A car is more than a 0-100kph/400m time.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Why would they be shy ? same engine different day and it'll be just like groundhog day. Autocar N.Z. have a best time 0-100 k.p.h. for a GTS that's a full second quicker than the best they ever got out of a SC FPV.

This article proves that the two are pretty line ball in acceleration. At a set of lights it would come down to reactions and driver skill. Case in point I gave a c63 a touch up in the turbo the other night. On paper it is 0.6 seconds quicker.

[Chopped]

Let's all remember that street racing is illegal.........
All of these races mentioned here are obviously happening at the strip.

We don't want car enthusiasts getting a bad name do we ?!

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Why would they be shy ? same engine different day and it'll be just like groundhog day. Autocar N.Z. have a best time 0-100 k.p.h. for a GTS that's a full second quicker than the best they ever got out of a SC FPV.

I agree unless the new xr8 is going to be significantly quicker than the R Spec I don't see why anyone with a VF GTS needs to shy at a set of lights, unless they are a really bad driver lol

[BadMax]

Isn't this circle funny. Oh it's the package, oh no it's not it's the straight line drag...It's the straight line drag, oh no it's not it's the package!

[Rob 351]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Why would they be shy ? same engine different day and it'll be just like groundhog day. Autocar N.Z. have a best time 0-100 k.p.h. for a GTS that's a full second quicker than the best they ever got out of a SC FPV.

Rodge, I still am not totally convinced by that autocar magazine time they set as no one has got anywhere near that time.
I always use WHEELS magazine as the benchmark when it comes to realistic & fair times & I know they timed the Rspec at 4.5 to 100. I must admit I haven't seen a WHEELS mag time on a GTS but I am sure it won't be a second quicker than a GT let alone a RSpec.
GTS is king, no doubt about that but the Rspec isn't as far behind as some mags would like the public to believe.

[5.4 GT]

As others have said in this thread, credit where credit is due. HSV clearly have the upper hand now in areas of acceleration, handling and the complete package (more tech and newer materials). The gap has grown now and was not as prevalent in years gone by. I would not buy one though...

[rancidpunx]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

I agree unless the new xr8 is going to be significantly quicker than the R Spec I don't see why anyone with a VF GTS needs to shy at a set of lights, unless they are a really bad driver lol

Have you driven a GTS? I have, and I certainly wont be shy to pull up next to one at the lights rather than tuck in behind it in my RSpec. On the street no matter what the articles say, HSV have only just caught up with the GT and F6 for everyday performance. For all its bells and whistles it needs to be really shifting for its advantages to become apparent.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

Have you driven a GTS? I have, and I certainly wont be shy to pull up next to one at the lights rather than tuck in behind it in my RSpec. On the street no matter what the articles say, HSV have only just caught up with the GT and F6 for everyday performance. For all its bells and whistles it needs to be really shifting for its advantages to become apparent.

Im talking about the upcoming xr8 not the R Spec. I just agree with what Rodge's response was to someone that posted that when the new xr8 comes out people who have the GTS will shy away at lights, insinuating that the new xr8 will be quicker than both the R Spec and the GTS.

[au2000]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Im talking about the upcoming xr8 not the R Spec. I just agree with what Rodge's response was to someone that posted that when the new xr8 comes out people who have the GTS will shy away at lights, insinuating that the new xr8 will be quicker than both the R Spec and the GTS.

U might wanna re read the first line of my post 181...where did I say that the xr8 will be quicker than an r spec or a gts?

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by au2000

U might wanna re read the first line of my post 181...where did I say that the xr8 will be quicker than an r spec or a gts?

Your post says that when the new xr8 comes out next year there will be some mighty shy GTS owners at the lights insinuating that the xr8 will be quicker than the GTS or am I reading it wrong?

[au2000]

My point may not be coming across right, put it this way I don't know how happy I'd be if over a dash from 0 to 100 in my $90,000 gts I'd be having a $50,000 or so Xr nipping at my heels.

[GASWAGON]

Wonder how quick the R Spec would be if it was also 6.2ltrs?

Ford are basically making similar numbers with less capacity.....HSV want 20k more for 1ltr more capacity!

Broadford is not a car track I go there lots for bike racing...Its very tight and short for big bang cars. Phillip Island would have been much better!

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by EF_6

Wonder how quick the R Spec would be if it was also 6.2ltrs? intercooled?

Fixed.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by Rob 18

Rodge, I still am not totally convinced by that autocar magazine time they set as no one has got anywhere near that time.
I always use WHEELS magazine as the benchmark when it comes to realistic & fair times & I know they timed the Rspec at 4.5 to 100. I must admit I haven't seen a WHEELS mag time on a GTS but I am sure it won't be a second quicker than a GT let alone a RSpec.
GTS is king, no doubt about that but the Rspec isn't as far behind as some mags would like the public to believe.

Mate to the best of my knowledge Wheels test with two people on board and at least half a tank of gas. As per our previous discussion on this, I've never had any reason to question Autocar N.Z's times before and I know they use the best VBox timing equipment. Being a Kiwi publication they're generally a little removed from the potential for Australian manufacturer "influence".

While I never got a direct explanation from the Editor to my enquiry last month regarding this exceptional time for the GTS and questioning how repeatable that time was, but something I havn't seen articulated in the magazine this way before perhaps gives an insight in the current January 14 edition wherein while testing the new twin turbo Audi RS6 they said the following :-

Tractable torque is key when racing the clock and this RS has that in spades. Audi quotes a 0-100 time of 3.9 sec and our first run netted 3.65, on a cool but dry early morning. It was a perfect run scenario, but subsequent timed sprints turned in 3.8's and 3.9's consistently.

As you know forced induction vehicles generally respond very well to cooler conditions and seeing as Autocar got a best one-off time that's better than Audi's quoted time by 0.25 seconds I think their time for the GTS that's quicker than HSV's quoted time by the same amount seems to stack up fine, given they test with just the driver on board.

Autocar have never tested an R Spec, only 10 made their way across the Tasman and were snapped up pretty quick, but I am confident if they did they'd give it a fair evaluation and i'm pretty sure they'd get a circa mid four seconds time from it.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

holden won the battle but lost the war i look forward to the mustang v8 vs holden 4 cyclinder front wheel drive comparison in future? Even if gm bring another v8 of some other brand here it wont ever be a holden so id say holdens down the shitter right where it belongs.

id also argue they may have won a political battle(with the GTS) but have lost the war politically and the war on the streets along time ago. And that's before any of the above mentioned even happens. ALL these cars only ever see each other on the streets. That means the streets are full of holden and hsv munching fords and fpvs. Theres the odd vf gts that will never hit the street hard...or the track.

Its a different way of looking at it.....but im not the only one disgusted at the way holden and GM handle there business.
Ford can be proud we have LOCALLY developed supersedans built here off our own backs.....not the misfortune of millions of americans.
And THAT takes the shine off the GTS for me.
I wont bat an eye if HOLDEN disappears.

[Lardman]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

I wont bat an eye if HOLDEN disappears.

Actually you will. Without Holden products to compete with, the Falcon itself would not have improved to the stage it is today. One can't exist without the other, particularly in such a fragile market like ours.

And if you want to call me a liar? Ford pulled out and now Holden will do the same. I've got a lot of headwear to eat if Toyota sticks around.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Lardman

I've got a lot of headwear to eat if Toyota sticks around.

You're safe. Have a read of Toyota's EBA, there's no way in hell that gravy train will continue.

[FGX-351]

HSV could also be handing out hotted up press cars again?

[OZQUAD44]

I wanted to see more Wheels comparisons of the r spec, to hsv,s and the like way back in 2012, not 2014. The fact wheels dragged out the r spec for this comparison is testament to how well it punched above its weight back then , and still does today.

About the only good thing to come out of the demise of our local car industry is i won't be required to endure anti falcon/FoA subtext in certain forms of local media. The Falcon is soon dead so there should be no point putting the boot in any further. Mission accomplished.

Having no Australian made rear wheel drive cars, be it ford or Holden, is a sad day for this country. Regardless of the inefficiencies of said industry.