Toyota Kluger - Rolls during Wheels COTY

[phillyc]

"Oh what a Rollover! Toyota"

Well, the biggest news shouldn't be who won, but the fact that a car portrayed/advertised to death (pardoning the potential pun) as a 7 seat family vehicle has disasterous handling and rolled.

Considering the exceptional handling of the Territory it's time Ford fought back.

I sent Ford the following email and suggest you forward them something too.

"Oh what a rollover!"

Here is your chance Ford to "Get some nuts!" as Mr T would say.

Kluger became the first vehicle to roll during Wheels COTY in 45yrs.

It's already 2nd in the sales race to the Territory, a market Terri created. Don't let them encroach further. Use a Toyota Rollover fear, Territory glowing praise campaign. Use Wheels quotes 4 both arguments.

Wheels suggested Toyota urgently update their stability control on not just this model, but all Toyotas as the "cars ESP performance was substandard."

Toyota impressively outsold you and Holden combined last year.

I say, kick them in the pants. Return fire and have a proper war instead of the one sided onslaught.

..............

I also sent Today Tonight and A Current Affair a similar email, but focused on the safety repercussions of the markets dominant player having such handling deficient vehicles (as they have for years).

I mean, if you are going to start something why not go to commercial sensationalists?!

I would also encourage you to do the same.

[Steffo]

I love it when objective testing proves me right. Toyota - an unsafe car manufacturer.

[Paxton]

Already in the Territory forums. Feel free to join us down there.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?p=1948604

[Elks]

The amazing thing is not Toyota's rollover it is it's Toyota's spin capabilty. By this I mean spin a yarn.

They already portray themselves as the eco friendly lot whist pumping out many time more Klugers, Prado's and Land Cruisers etc. all which suck fuel like jumbo jets.

Be sure the spin doctors will have traced this to a fault in a sensor by next issue.

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by myts

Klugers, Prado's and Land Cruisers etc. all which suck fuel like jumbo jets.

bothered to even research what the Landcruiser has in the way of an engine and fuel consumption lately........didnt think so.

any dweeb can roll any car.
it doesnt prove anything.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by davway

bothered to even research what the Landcruiser has in the way of an engine and fuel consumption lately........didnt think so.

any dweeb can roll any car.
it doesnt prove anything.

I know the old 100-Series likes a drink! A very big drink at that! Even in Diesel form.

[andrewts]

Whilst it's great to know the Terror-torry can handle like a car, you can bet Wheels through the Kluger around on a racetrack. Who bails the family up into the car for a race? Clearly that's not what the Kluger is meant to do. You could roll anything, and it is wrong to rely on a computer to prevent it.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by andrewts

Whilst it's great to know the Terror-torry can handle like a car, you can bet Wheels through the Kluger around on a racetrack. Who bails the family up into the car for a race? Clearly that's not what the Kluger is meant to do. You could roll anything, and it is wrong to rely on a computer to prevent it.

They didn't roll the Landcruiser 85 or 100-Series, didn't roll the Prado, they even took a Hiace van around a slalom, skidpan and racetrack and didn't roll it... but they roll the Kluger?

Epic fail by Toyota.

[ebxr8240]

If you are bad enough driver or try hard enough you can roll anything!!!
I seem to remember a Nissan [Evan Green ? some years back and an A series Mercedes suffer the same... Maybe not coty ????

[ea90gl]

If the toyota was subjected to the same testing done in the same way as everyother car and it was the only one that rolled then it should be noted it has crap handling, if it was handled in a different way to all other cars then who knows whats up with it, but either way for a car to roll is pretty bad hope no one got injured

[Homer1]

Originally Posted by Steffo

They didn't roll the Landcruiser 85 or 100-Series, didn't roll the Prado, they even took a Hiace van around a slalom, skidpan and racetrack and didn't roll it... but they roll the Kluger?

Epic fail by Toyota.

You talk as if they are the only company to have a faulty design in one of thier cars (Ford Explorer anyone??). With the size of thier range, there is bound to be one model with a failure or two. I doubt many Kluger buyer would drive like the Wheels test team did anyways, but the problem should still be addressed.

[ClevlndStemer]

seems to be a new feature with Toyotas

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/new...he-moose-test/

[Dave_au]

Toyota's statement is that the telematics recovered from the SRS ECU suggest the car was being driven substantially differently to Wheels magazines claim of events.

[ClevlndStemer]

and in all honesty i wouldn't expect any less from Toyota or any other make *cough* FPV *cough*.

[hy_boi]

I think your all missing the point, your all talking about handling, sounds like no one read the article, They were testing esp and expecting the car to steer itselfs. Even the article says that the driver was waiting for the car to steer ad correct itself, which, well in real life you wouldn't do, as far as I'm lead to believe ESP is meant to 'HELP' correct slides etc.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

If you are bad enough driver or try hard enough you can roll anything!!!
I seem to remember a Nissan [Evan Green ? some years back and an A series Mercedes suffer the same... Maybe not coty ????

Yes, when the A-Class was under final testing it failed the "Moose Test" where they approach a marker at speed then swerve to avoid.

They fixed this by lowering the A-Class an inch.

[moses]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Yes, when the A-Class was under final testing it failed the "Moose Test" where they approach a marker at speed then swerve to avoid.

They fixed this by lowering the A-Class an inch.

Actually they fixed it by fitting ESP as standard fitment. This led to ESP becoming cheaper due to the volume it created, hence other manufactureres jumping on the bandwagon many years back

[Fev]

ive had a landcruiser for..... 15 years now i think we have had one.. first was a 80series RV which got written off, then replaced with the same model. that we had for another 5 years til we sold it to my uncle which he still drives. now we have a 100 series which we have had for about 8-9 years now and its still going strong, got it tuned with a unichip at CRD on the dyno.. pullin 103kw's at all 4 wheels

Never had a problem what so ever.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Homer1

You talk as if they are the only company to have a faulty design in one of thier cars (Ford Explorer anyone??). With the size of thier range, there is bound to be one model with a failure or two. I doubt many Kluger buyer would drive like the Wheels test team did anyways, but the problem should still be addressed.

No, they're not the only company. However they're one of the only ones where people overlook faulty designs or won't admit that they have one in the first place.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Steffo

No, they're not the only company. However they're one of the only ones where people overlook faulty designs or won't admit that they have one in the first place.

Damn right Steffo! Virtually all true toyota supporters i've ever come across exist in a state of automotive delusion...totally out of touch with reality, will not give any support for competitors vehicles or admit to faults in their own. I however will readilly rant on about all the failings in my car and many other ford vehicles.

Hell, i love fords but i will go into bat for any car if it meets a persons needs properly - even if i dont' like it much myself. Toyota fans love toyota, not cars. Period.

[JR.]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I love it when objective testing proves me right. Toyota - an unsafe car manufacturer.

I'm sorry, but you're completely off your rocker if you think Wheels testing is objective in any way. Nor is it scientific, or performed under repeatable circumstances, or done using drivers with any special qualifications beyond what the public could get if they too drove a car for a living or did the occasion advanced driver course.

And I wouldn't be too hard to Toyota either -yet. ACP mags have demonstrated in the past that they're not any further beyond playing fast and loose with the facts than the car companies, and spin works both ways when it comes to issues that touch on OHS liabilities and corporate insurance coverage.

Until Toyota refuse to release the telemetry of the accident for independent review (something I'm sure they're threatening in private should any ACP arm try to make hay out of this incident), their claim that the computer shows a far different story to what Wheels states happened shouldn't be blithely chalked up to spin-doctoring.

Also, no rival car company could put out an ad saying the Kluger is unsafe based on this incident because Toyota would immediately sue and if they have telemetry that backs their version would win hands down.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

Damn right Steffo! Virtually all true toyota supporters i've ever come across exist in a state of automotive delusion...totally out of touch with reality, will not give any support for competitors vehicles or admit to faults in their own.

And this makes them different from Ford supporters how?

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by flappist

And this makes them different from Ford supporters how?

Well clearly we have different views on ford supporters then! Sure i know a couple ford guys like that i suppose, but i consider myself a ford supporter and i would never blindly worship ford. Most ford fans i know are very passionate about ford and its history, and love their cars, but know damn well what is wrong with them (often try to fix the problems), abuse ford for making bad cars when they do, are are generally very open to at least looking at other cars (although obviously are very skeptical of holdens...must be the tribal thing).

Based on the downright pessimistic view some people around ford forums have towards ford, i can't see how you think they are all blindly worshiping FoMoCo. A mate of mine used to be a huge toyota fanboy, he showed me this forum he was on for toyota owners and it was the most uninformed collection of 'car fans' i have ever seen. It was a cult, praising toyota all the time with very little critical comment. I don't know, maybe i'm looking too kindly on ford fans (or holden, mitsu and others) but all the toyota boys i know treat toyota as a religion - like scientology really!

[steve.zissou]

I think the real big issue here is " the SRS ECU records the telemetry like a black box"
now i am not sure if this is actually the case and if it is or isn't in production cars, but if it is, it opens up a whole bag of worms (good worms or bad worms I couldn't say at this stage).
can someone confirm if they do record and do the insurance companies know about it?

[Bossxr8]

I have read numerous road tests where Toyotas ESP calabration has been labelled as poor on numerous models. They always claim it comes in too early or not at all. They obviously do a crap job of calibration, but this is starting to become a common theme at Toyota, the RAV V6 is another example of where they have had a calibration issue.

It has been reported recently that Toyota have grown too big, too quickly, and they are struggling to get enough engineers to develop the cars properly, and because of this their quality is starting to drop quite quickly. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

[Dave_au]

I think a really big issue here is the fact that we're all having a go at the VSC calibration on a dirt road, which is probably the equivalent of having an argument about the effectiveness of ABS on a dirt road.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by JR.

I'm sorry, but you're completely off your rocker if you think Wheels testing is objective in any way. Nor is it scientific, or performed under repeatable circumstances, or done using drivers with any special qualifications beyond what the public could get if they too drove a car for a living or did the occasion advanced driver course.

They've put the Toyota Hiace 6.0 LWB work van around a skid pad, slalom and race-track and it didn't roll-over. Hrm?

[mcnews]

Every person I have known that has worked for/with Toyotas praise the brand greatly. In fact I have never come across so much brand loyalty to a former employer from people in the car industry. Even from people who left Toyota quite a few years ago. I've never owned one and probably never will but never cease to be amazed at how people that used to work for or with them praise them so highly. They must do something right...

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Every person I have known that has worked for/with Toyotas praise the brand greatly. In fact I have never come across so much brand loyalty to a former employer from people in the car industry. Even from people who left Toyota quite a few years ago. I've never owned one and probably never will but never cease to be amazed at how people that used to work for or with them praise them so highly. They must do something right...

Like treating their workers well.............

Still doesn't make them good vehicles especially considering the big coverups and corporate scandals they have had in Japan.

I had a corolla once and it was a piece of . I think Mazdas are MUCH better vehicles.

[Steffo]

Every time I sit in and drive a Toyota vehicle I have less and less faith in the collective intelligence of the general public. They're dynamically awful. In some cases, downright dangerous.

"Oh but the engine lasted this and this long..." :