any engineers - career advice

[msman]

hey,

i just graduated from mechatronics engineering and am wondering if there are any engineers here, wanting to get some advice.

just wondering how i should go about applying for jobs?
i know the usual good CV etc, but what should i do to stand out???
i want something auto related, just wondering if i get something non-auto now, will i be able to use that experience later on to get into auto stuff?

i have no work experience as my sisters wedding came around when i had planned work experience over the summer break 06/07.
is there a company which can help in getting work experience now, i've done a call around but nothing available atm, the big comps all want students not yet fully graduated.

also i am completing a bachelors of commerce atm and am wondering whether i should put that down on resume even thouh i have 2 units remaining, doing it offcampus.


cheers for any help

[mcflux]

Mechatronics? Are you a Gippsland-moved-to-Clayton student by any chance? I went to Gippsland thru 2002-2006 (5 years due to 1 year being lost when the old course got written off/transferred to Clayton)

Anyway, getting back to your question about finding work, go through an employment agency, they'll find you work in no time. When you say "big companies", do you mean large international consulting corporations? There are plenty of smaller companies (city/country based) begging for local engineers to work on smaller projects. Just because the projects may be smaller ($100K instead of $100M for example) doesn't make them less complicated, I mostly work on <$50K projects & have a very similar checklist of things to go through compared to my bosses' >$500K projects.

[msman]

deakin in geelong, originally wanted to do electrical eng but they dropped it the year i started so did mechatronics.

any agencies you recomend.
i know there are small companies begging for engineers but how do i go about finding them short of posting ads in the paper?
i'am currently just looking at seek mycareer careerone

when i say big i mean ford/holden/toyota etc, they have full progrmas but everyone i have contacted says they want stundents just completing 3rd year and not yet fully graduated.

to be honest i just want some work which will lead me into a decent career and not a dead end, don't care if its a $2 or $2billion project.

[Powdered Toast Man]

Try going back to your uni careers centre to see if they will help find some work experience. They will at the very least be able to provide a list of employers who actually provide it for students. But unfortunately most 6 or 12 month placements begin in January or July and most of the large multi nationals have quite a long drawn out application process that stretches over months.

I actually thought there was a minumum number of weeks (12 or something) that had to be completed before you can graduate? I went to Swinburne Uni and most engineering courses actually incorporate 12 months of work experience anyway.

As far as automotive goes it will be more difficult to break into it afterward if you dont get some under your belt early. But saying that, I guess if you're good at what you do and can show it then there shouldn't be a problem. Plus I'm not sure about mechatronics anyway, I'm speaking more of Mechanical engineering

[mcflux]

Nothing in engineering is "dead end" ;)

Adding to Powdered Toast Man's post, contact your local employment recruitment agencies as well, they'll throw your details into their database & match you up with job descriptions that local employers give them, exactly the same as if you're a jobseeker going through Centrelink.

[msman]

i've already seen the careers people all they could do was help me with writing up CV and said 'look at the listing on our website for jobs'.

deakin just brought in the compulsory work experience, 3 month.

i have a list but as said before they want students and not graduates for work experience, unless i am asking the wrong companies as the list is just large companies.

will start looking at agencies, google it is.

[Powdered Toast Man]

Unfortunately it is mostly large companies that do it because you need at least 1 senior engineer to be your mentor/teacher. Many small companies just dont have the resources to allow their engineers to divert time from daiuly duties to spend time teaching/mentoring. And like I said, the large companies work experience programs are highly structured and scheduled. So if you miss out, you miss out full stop.

When I graduated the only job I could get was a student drafting position 2 days per week. The company I work for had 1 engineer when I started, and I spent most of my time struggling with my head below the water as there was no program set up. Luckily the engineer was actually an ex high school maths teacher so he knew his stuff.

I am now the only full time engineer at my work and the old engineer is semi retired and works special projects, plus we have another draftsman. And with the work load there is no way there would be time to teach a student or graduate the ropes. We could probably use one to help with the workload though, and the management would be happy because they wouldn't have to pay much lol. My point being most small companies wont have anything for you either. You may find some meduim to large ones though, but once again I dont know what's out there for mechatronics engineers.

And before you ask there is nothing here for a Mechatronics engineer, it's purely fabricated metal products design and production. And it's all built by hand, no manufacturing machines, we're old school lol.

[ABoringUsername]

Apply for the graduate programs. most large companies have them, and they should let your first 3 months of work be 'work experience'. They will be appearing between about now and about december. WHen i was finishing uni, i got this little booklet which had all the opening dates. failing that, look at all the companies you are interested in websites and look for advertisments. They will appear.

[msman]

yeah i know about the graduate programs.

i din't apply as i was planning on doing the remaining commerce units full time and apply for grad positions at the start of this year for start in mid 08 to early 09, but at the end of exams in november i changed my mind and am doing commerce offcampus one subject at a time so i can get some full time work.

cheers for the replies.

if any one has more thoughts please post them up.

[JMO]

Sorry for the hi jack.

I'm currently in my fourth (hopefully final) year of electrical engineering. My main concern is not about finding a job but more that i'm not confident in what i have/haven't learnt.

I haven't done my compulsory work experience yet so i don't know what employers will expect from me on the job and out in the real world. Will it be anything like lab work in uni? Will it be more of the calculation stuff? Will i be expected to understand and remember everything i've been taught or will i be 'shown the ropes' and only be expected to do certain calculations/tasks etc?

It's been worrying me more and more as i've gotten closer to finishing Put that together with the fact that electrical doesn't really interest me (The stuff i've been taught so for anyway... anyone who's reading this and still in highschool, think very carefully about where you want to end up and get as much info as possible). I've asked a few lecturers but they just give run around answers :(

Any info anyone can give?

[XYGTHO]

Originally Posted by JMO

Sorry for the hi jack.

I'm currently in my fourth (hopefully final) year of electrical engineering. My main concern is not about finding a job but more that i'm not confident in what i have/haven't learnt.

I haven't done my compulsory work experience yet so i don't know what employers will expect from me on the job and out in the real world. Will it be anything like lab work in uni? Will it be more of the calculation stuff?

It's been worrying me more and more as i've gotten closer to finishing Put that together with the fact that electrical doesn't really interest me (The stuff i've been taught so for anyway... anyone who's reading this and still in highschool, think very carefully about where you want to end up and get as much info as possible). I've asked a few lecturers but they just give run around answers :(

Any info anyone can give?

Mate, once you start working you'l be right. You'l find most jobs will be more practical and hands on, you will work with other experienced people to guide you etc. You really should get some work experience or something if you can. The uni stuff is important but work ethic, safety, pride in work and being fastidious and making sure you don't miss anything/double checking etc are also important and in some jobs you'll find alot of things you'l do over and over which aren't to hard, however having the theory which you would have learnt at uni you'll understand in depth the workings of things better. Unless you actually get a job with development of electronics or something in a lab environment anyhow. I have no experience in this, only design in commercial such as power retic, comms reticulation, building systems and services, essential services, switching, protection, surge protection, UPS's, lighting and the list goes on. Theres so much to know mate, i'm sure you'l love it out in the industry properly.

[saber]

Originally Posted by JMO

Sorry for the hi jack.

I'm currently in my fourth (hopefully final) year of electrical engineering. My main concern is not about finding a job but more that i'm not confident in what i have/haven't learnt.

Hey mate, what uni do you go to?

I am in very much the same boat as JMO. Final year elec eng/sci double degree.
Strange thing is at Melbourne uni there is no compolsory work experience. Dont know why??

[bob^]

Ahh with all I'm reading above, I'm glad now that I'm learning a trade at the same time as doing my engineering degree...

[Powdered Toast Man]

Originally Posted by JMO

Sorry for the hi jack.

I'm currently in my fourth (hopefully final) year of electrical engineering. My main concern is not about finding a job but more that i'm not confident in what i have/haven't learnt.

I haven't done my compulsory work experience yet so i don't know what employers will expect from me on the job and out in the real world. Will it be anything like lab work in uni? Will it be more of the calculation stuff? Will i be expected to understand and remember everything i've been taught or will i be 'shown the ropes' and only be expected to do certain calculations/tasks etc?

Any info anyone can give?

Depends on the job you get. I have forgotten most of my maths/physics, it's the basic understanding that is more important. You tend to have all of the necessary research material at hand if required or the mentoring and support you will need if you get a very technical job.

I'm a mechanical engineer and still in my first job (for 5 years now) and I am really just a glorified draftsman and production planner. We do very little in the way of engineering calculation but we really should do more lol. The thing is if there is something to calculate it goes to the senior engineer since he's an ex maths teacher. So I guess he's my crutch! But if you want something drawn quickly you don't go to him because he still uses a drawing board, there's not even a computer in his office, he doesn't use them.

You will generally find that if the job is very technical they will be looking more closely at your marks. For example they're not going to hire someone with a D grade average in maths to work in a highly mathematical field. Just identify your strengths and push them as much as possible.

[pertuan]

How adventurous are you? 13 19 01.

I know I'm going to sound like an advert here but it is really how I feel about it. I reckon I have one of the best jobs in the world working in the Navy. I've got an awesome crew, I'm getting paid to travel, I'm having a ball and I get paid quite well.

[JMO]

Originally Posted by saber

Hey mate, what uni do you go to?

I am in very much the same boat as JMO. Final year elec eng/sci double degree.
Strange thing is at Melbourne uni there is no compolsory work experience. Dont know why??

RMIT.

Maths doesn't bother me, it's more the application to complex circuits that gets me. If I'm shown how to do it a couple of times with clear explanations along the way, everything is good. The thing is, most lecturers don't give a to$$ and throw you in the deep end and you have to go out and get a text book to figure out the answers. Normally i don't mind, that's how i got through 11/12 but the stuff seems pretty complex to me and it takes a *very* long time for me to work through it all, if i even manage to. Just seems like there isn't enough time in the day. Hence i don't feel confident with the stuff.

Hopefully my 3 sem project will give me a little taste of what is required before i get the work experience.

[JMO]

Originally Posted by pertuan

How adventurous are you? 13 19 01.

I know I'm going to sound like an advert here but it is really how I feel about it. I reckon I have one of the best jobs in the world working in the Navy. I've got an awesome crew, I'm getting paid to travel, I'm having a ball and I get paid quite well.

I've got a couple of navys in my year. Great blokes for the most part (1 or 2 d!ck$). Best part is the navy pays for their course.

[pertuan]

Originally Posted by JMO

I've got a couple of navys in my year. Great blokes for the most part (1 or 2 d!ck$). Best part is the navy pays for their course.

I'm not able to pick out that you have a specific direction you want to follow in your original post. If you are open to direction, I would strongly encourage you to look at defence jobs. Its not for everyone but if it is, its great work.

I will be the first to admit that when I finished uni in 2003, I would never have dreamed that I would end up in the Navy. I believe my reactions to defence recruiters during O-week was something like "Pfft... yeah right... I'm not joining no military!" But seriously, give it a thought. It could just be the time of your life.

And they will teach you everything you need to know to get the job done. Very structured learning path.

I'll leave it there. Don't want to be seen as a recruiter. hehe

[JMO]

Might sound stupid, but what do engineers do? Engineers, please speak up and tell me what you do on a daily basis and how in depth it is... in layman terms

[[dave]]

engineers walk around are work shop and tell everyone the wrong way to do everything than complain cause the job doesnt get out on time

[XR6Dan]

What engineers do depends on what type of engineer!! I'm an electrical engineer - I design control systems for mines, eveything from little hydraulic pumps up to 2km conveyors with tripple 630kW drives, 1MW 11kV fans and a whole pile of stuff in-between.

You probably don't know what you want to do - what you have learnt at uni is to how to solve problems - I think I use abot 5% of what I learnt!!

My only advice is to be prepared to learn on the job and from other professionals - don't go into your interviews and say "I want to be a project manager", that takes years.

[ABoringUsername]

I do power system modelling. basically simulating the electrical Power system in a variety of different situations to see what it would do. Also for possible new connections seeing how they interact with the system. I do quite a bit with Wind power. I also do High Voltage testing, which basically is testing the system assets with high voltages (Duh...). I did get to blow up a 11MVA machine once in HV testing though... I use very little of what i learned at uni, mainly the ability to think things through logically and solve problems. I will hopefully soon be doing a bit of field engineering. When you start work, they won't expect you to be able to do a great deal. Just don't arrive there thinking you are better than everyone else because you have a degree, especially if you mainly work with people without degrees.

[Pursuit250]

When I graduated with my Electrical Engineering Degree the Head of School said one thing that has always stuck in my mind, "this degree doesn't teach you everything you need to know about being an Electrical Engineer, it gives you the tools to be able solve problems, no matter what field of engineering you are in."

Those years of banging your head against the wall trying to solve those unsolvable problems are just giving you the tools you need to make it as an engineer.

I currently work as a engineering consultant. I take on different jobs on a regular basis and I'm not about to tell anyone that I have a wealth of experience in each and every job I take. All I know is that I have the tools to do any job given an appropriate amount of read in time.

Being able to assess problems and provide solutions is what I learnt at Uni and is what I do in my day-to-day job. Prove that in any interview and you'll have no problems getting the job you want.

Finally, I suggest you make contact with Engineer Australia (http://www.engineersaustralia.org.au/) and see what advice they can provide. Engineers Australia are there to represent us Engineers and will be able to point you in the right direction for a career path. At this stage I think you are lacking some direction.

[Powdered Toast Man]

I design excavator attachments, mainly quick hitches. Well thats half of my job. It's pretty much just drafting, most of the time I am just modifying existing drawings to suit the requirements of the specific job. Over the years I have learnt what materials to use and where but most of that was pre determined anyway. Because the industry is pretty much run on experience and a "that looks about right" attitude not much real R&D is done and definitely no in depth mathematical analysis. I'm still working in 2D AutoCAD although we do have SolidWorks which has some basic FEA capability. I havent trained up much on it yet though, no training programs in house at my work, it's all do it in your own time.

The other half is management. While I am actually in charge of the drawing office, I am also the production planner, technical specification collector (fax, email or on site measurement), stock manager, purchasing officer for the quick hitch department, and anything else they lump me with.

So I work closely with the guys on the floor producing production drawings (much like [dave] said lol; only I dont complain if the job is late, that's the sales guys) as well as working with the sales team, the production manager and occasionally liasing directly with clients.

Originally Posted by ABoringUserName

Just don't arrive there thinking you are better than everyone else because you have a degree, especially if you mainly work with people without degrees.

Very true. I quite often boast that I have the highest engineering qualifications there but I know that both my boss and the senior engineer have much greater experience and knowledge (both have Diplomas while I have a Degree lol). Use everybody as a source of knowledge.

[Airmon]

So what kind of Wages are you blokes looking at?

How would you rate your jobs and the courses?

Just a little curious, I enroll for Mechanical tomorrow.

[Gammaboy]

Biggest piece of Advice i'd give is avoid specialising for as long as possible, gives you alot more freedom to chop and change jobs. Unfortunately I've basically worked in the same *narrow* field of (R&D) technology for the last 7 years (ie since I left Uni)... not alot of call for someone who specialises in my area. On the flipside, cool toys and travel kinda make it ok.

[JMO]

At this stage I think you are lacking some direction.

I guess i am, sort of. The thing is i don't know what to expect on the job and what employers will expect of me.

I design excavator attachments

I currently work as a engineering consultant

I do power system modelling

How did you guys find 'direction'? consultation alright, but how do you find direction that leads you to making excavator attachments or power modelling?

[Powdered Toast Man]

Originally Posted by JMO

I guess i am, sort of. The thing is i don't know what to expect on the job and what employers will expect of me.

How did you guys find 'direction'? consultation alright, but how do you find direction that leads you to making excavator attachments or power modelling?

I looked for a job and this was the first one I got. Really I would have taken anything at the time, the offers weren't coming thick and fast I can tell you.

I wanted to become an engineer to work at Ford (surprise surprise) but my grades were no where good enough. The car companies, especially Holden and Ford, have the pick of graduates from all the Unis since about 70% of mech eng graduates want to work in the industry.

When I thought of being an engineer I always saw myself doing some sort of product design (once again that ideally wuld have been cars) so I am happy with my job as thats what I do. I have also worked as a draftsman for a maintenance engineer performing maintenace, repairs and upgrates to plant at a chocolate factory, and that wasn't my cup of tea. Really it is just trial and error to find out what aspects you like unless you really have a set idea on what you want to do.

My only complaint with my job now is that it's not technical enough, no calculations R&D or technical studies.

Originally Posted by Airmon

So what kind of Wages are you blokes looking at?
How would you rate your jobs and the courses?
Just a little curious, I enroll for Mechanical tomorrow.

Wages: not enough!!! I still remember what one of my first year lecturers "If you got into engineering for the money, then you chose the wrong profession".
Engineers in most cases are undervalued and underpaid. I work in a small company and personally get payed less than the average Australian wage and I dont get many perks. But the higher you climb the corporate ladder the more you get. The high payed engineers all work in management, because as engineers we have an excellent understanding of what it takes to get the job done so we make good managers.

Some average figures would be:

1st year graduate will start at about $50,000 in a large company, maybe as low as mid to high 30s in a small company.

With 5 years experience might be at $70,000 or $80,000 which may include a car or other salary package. I am at this level but because of where I work I get nowhere near this amount. But everyone apart from the boss is payed fairly crap. The tradies are paid appaulingly and because of this it is hard to get good ones, or really any at all.

With 20 years experience might be on 150,000 if you work in high end management for a large company.

Like I said my job is fairly easy if a bit stressful as I have quite a bit of responsibility. I hardly use any of my engineering knowledge but over all, like has been said before, the degree is just there to give you the tools to learn how to do the job.

Are you doing a degree or a diploma? A degree is more theoretical, lots of conceptual maths and physics with a little practical thrown in. Apparently a diploma is a bit more practical but doesn't go as in depth with the advanced maths.

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by JMO

Might sound stupid, but what do engineers do? Engineers, please speak up and tell me what you do on a daily basis and how in depth it is... in layman terms

While I was at uni, I covered a few different areas of civil engineering.

1st year work experience - I worked in the boiler/turbine section of a power station, I was assigned to an audit team. Our job/project over the summer period was to do a "walkdown inspection" of each boiler and document all the piping hanging off the boilers. This project came about due to a lack of maintenance over the years and some of these pipes were beginning to fail. There had been a couple of "near misses" where something like a high pressure steam pipe would fail and blast a jet of steam into a walkway, which could kill someone if they happened to be walking past at the time.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I made a bigass spreadsheet in Excel documenting each level of each boiler, with descriptions of the piping we came across, hyperlinked photos, and we developed a risk matrix regarding the possibility of pipeline failure for each pipe and the severity of what could happen if the pipe failed. We also made a little on-the-side spreadsheed for pipes that had asbestos cladding.

In my 2nd year(s... I did two 2nd years due to the forced course change thanks to Monash Clayton's politics), I worked on an ongoing asset management project with a local water authority. I was once again part of a team which developed a system to document sewer line failures, and we set up a database/library for historic inspection footage/reports as well as a system for entering new footage/reports coming in as there's an ongoing inspection program based on routine inspections and special callouts. The essence of this work was very similar to my time at the power station, although the actual project was completely different. I was able to take advantage of my experience from the power station and implement it into my work at the water authority.

In my "3rd" year at uni, I worked both at the water authority and in a coal mine. I was given some small capital works/operations projects to manage at the water authority, which was basically having something that needed building (little stuff, like having a new access pathway built at a water treatment plant, etc). These little projects revolved around determining the scope of works to be done, estimating the expected costs and timelines, and then contacting known contractors and overseeing the work they did.

The coal mine work was the most fun, I'd jump in the boss's hilux and hoon aroud the mine all day checking levels and readings at various bore sites situated in the mine. The readings I took were entered into a database so that we could check the water table and the stability of the mine, and the trends that were graphed in the database helped optimise how to run the dewatering pump stations there and whether any areas of the mine required geotech work to keep it stable.

In my final year at uni I was once again at the local water authority. I did two final year projects, one was developing a 20 year strategy for a town's water and sewerage network (mostly by myself). The other was focused on another town and designing/tendering for a new sewer pump station to accommodate for the town's future growth. These projects went far beyond just functional design and cost estimates and many of the spreadsheets/tools I developed for these projects will help me a great deal in future work I do.

After I completed uni, I switched to working for a council as their design engineer. My current role is very different to a lot of the work I did through my uni years. I've been here for just over a year now and I do work such as surveying in urban, rural and remote areas for various projects such as rural & urban road construction, bridge construction, urban drainage, public parks, buildings, drafting the existing conditions picked up in the survey using programs such as AutoCAD and 12D (12D has full-on 80s graphics considering it's a modern program. It is VERY user-unfriendly, but it's damn powerful), various audits/investigations, as well as doing little design/project jobs on the side for other engineers, planners, depot workers, etc.

The pay isn't the best ($45k/year starting) but I'll be up to $60k/year + car within a couple of years. The work is secure, the hours are set, you're ALWAYS on top of your work (if you're not a slacker)/can work at your own pace, they're always signing me up for training courses, and most importantly, I'm not specialising in anything (like Gammaboy mentioned), I'm getting experience in the many different aspects of working in local government, however the bulk of my work is design & drafting (due to my position :P), with some projects from concept to constuction & completion on the side.

I'm not sure how useful a mechatronics degree would be for working in local government though :(

Cheers

-Dave-

[XYGTHO]

Mate mate mate. You seem to be stressing about nothing i think.
Uni as said so many times are the building block. You probably have a .05% chance of getting a job that will be as technical as any of the circuitry problems you solved in your last year at uni.
Take what you can get. I bet you will love it. You get to problem solve etc but they are easy problems. You get to be creative.
I'm the same, a glorified draftsman. Haven't finished my degree yet but have been working the whole time (i do it externally part time) 5years. Really i have about 4years experience as a elec designer. I still do drafting also. Whatever field you get into you will learn heaps everyday. I still learn hepas and will for the rest of my career. The last two days i designed a network surveillance security camera system for a school (drawn,specified etc). Not that complicated but have to make sure you don't miss anything.
Employee's won't expect to much of you. They will start you off showing you some small jobs and get you to do them a few times then keep adding on.
As said go into the job wanting to learn, do not think becasue you have a degree that you should or do know anything more than anyone else. Yes its bloody hard to do a degree and congrats on finishing it and yes you may be smarter than alot of people in the same workplace you get a job, but it all comes down to experience.
A job ive just done (accomm at a school/dorms) i put in emergency lighting including maintained exits which means they are always lit which they have to be by the australian standards however in this situation the girls in the dorms are complaining about the light when trying to sleep. They will end up taking the lamps out of them which means they won't work at all if there is a fire etc. You have to get allowance from the fire brigade to put non-maintained exits in which means they only light up when the emergency lighting is on(when there's a fire, power outage etc) and the fire brigade allow this and would rather it so that they don't end up pulling the lamps out all together. 5Years and ive done a hell of a lot of emergency lighting designs and ive never come across this. I didn't get in trouble. People in the industry understand that you miss things sometimes. Just don't miss the same thing more than twice. LOL.
I think you'l find with only a few years of experinece you should be able to make 70-100grand. Up here anyway with the mines even more. I'm on shy of 50g and am only half way through my degree but do most of the elec design and making heaps of dosh for the company. ive had a 4g payrise every 6months for the last 2 years now. Its great.
Just get out there mate. Take what ever you can get and enjoy it mate.
Just show that your down to earth, willing to learn and listen. Good luck.