bright sparks for the au six?

[Stav]

Yes I need to mod a little more..hehe. I have been studying msd ignitions but the amount of failures and slow backup service have made me not commit to this system. Are there other systems available?

The Ba's have coil on plug which is an awesome system..What can we do for the au sixes?

[99XR6]

What are you wanting to upgrade exactely? ICE do some great gear but they are mainly do V8 gear. they might have waht you are looking for

[Stav]

Ive talked to ice but they dont cater for wasted spark. I think that the ignition system is a compromise for the perfomance six. Imho the standard au six ignition is a barely workable compromise for profit.

[waggaclint]

you could easy run a coil for each plug but youd need a different ecu (ie piggyback) to control them....alot of rotary guys do this they use bosch coils....and if your using a piggy back ecu you can control the fuel as well so your gonna get a gain there as well...the only problem is getting someone with a dyno to tune it.....i used to work at a place that sold microtech and we used to fit them to all sorts of cars hey even on a stock car you will get good gains.....

[Stav]

I was thinking of a way to have a similar ignition as msd with the to provide a better spark. Maybe coil per plug and a capacitive multi spark. I dont believe there is a huge amount of power to be had but I suspect a much fatter power /torque curve.

[Stav]

Originally Posted by waggaclint

you could easy run a coil for each plug but youd need a different ecu (ie piggyback) to control them....alot of rotary guys do this they use bosch coils....and if your using a piggy back ecu you can control the fuel as well so your gonna get a gain there as well...the only problem is getting someone with a dyno to tune it.....i used to work at a place that sold microtech and we used to fit them to all sorts of cars hey even on a stock car you will get good gains.....

I think I can get ignitors which can work off the negative pulse from the eecv. I can only imagine that all that would be needed after this is a coil for each plug and a tach adapter of sorts.

[EvilChief]

Originally Posted by waggaclint

you could easy run a coil for each plug but youd need a different ecu (ie piggyback) to control them....alot of rotary guys do this they use bosch coils....and if your using a piggy back ecu you can control the fuel as well so your gonna get a gain there as well...the only problem is getting someone with a dyno to tune it.....i used to work at a place that sold microtech and we used to fit them to all sorts of cars hey even on a stock car you will get good gains.....

the AU ECUs have build in igniters, so any dumb ignition coil will be fine, however from personal experience i would use the LS1 coils, which are smart ignition coil (build in igniter), they also take just about any charge rate u throw at them as they have an internal regulator. i havent tried them myself with a stock ecu yet, however from a technical point of view i dont see a reason why it shouldnt work. id just wire the coils into pairs and that should work fine without an aftermarket ecu.

i found quite a few second hand units on ebay for quite reasoanble prices (around 100 to 150 mark for a complete set), which i am using on my V8 setup.

as for tach adaptor: no the tach signal is generated in the ecu from the cam and crank sensor, so it will continue working even after u change coilpacks.

teh stock au coilpacks have 4 wires in: 1 power wire and 3 signal wires, so u just use those for ur coils.

[waggaclint]

you could also try motec http://www.motec.com.au/ignition/cdicoils/

[EvilChief]

the dual post items are the same as the haltech units (or essentially bosch)

[Stav]

Originally Posted by EvilChief

the AU ECUs have build in igniters, so any dumb ignition coil will be fine, however from personal experience i would use the LS1 coils, which are smart ignition coil (build in igniter), they also take just about any charge rate u throw at them as they have an internal regulator. i havent tried them myself with a stock ecu yet, however from a technical point of view i dont see a reason why it shouldnt work. id just wire the coils into pairs and that should work fine without an aftermarket ecu.

i found quite a few second hand units on ebay for quite reasoanble prices (around 100 to 150 mark for a complete set), which i am using on my V8 setup.

as for tach adaptor: no the tach signal is generated in the ecu from the cam and crank sensor, so it will continue working even after u change coilpacks.

teh stock au coilpacks have 4 wires in: 1 power wire and 3 signal wires, so u just use those for ur coils.

Evil chief..Are you sure rpm is from the crank sensor? I am a bit wary as the v8's definately need tac adapters for the mds dis4 system.They dont run otherwise.This leaves me wondering if the six au also relies on the same principle for its ecu rev input? The haltech uses the crank sensor for rpm so I am not yet certian what will happen.

I know of the ls1 coils but was not sure if my ecu can cope with sinking a trigger above a certain amperage. I suppose we can try. The existing coilpacks fire in pairs so if the current ecu is doing that then I dont see why it cannot fire 2 separate ls1 coils.
The only other issue in my mind is that I have read that wasted spark au fires the coil 2 times per cycle.I believe it fires one coil positive and has a negative on the other.The effect is a weaker spark in the non firing cylinder.I am notsure that this is correct as more often than not most people say that the coils fire up a paired coilpack with a positive charge? I am not sure on this yet either.Any more info would be great..

[Stav]

I might head down to the local holden wrecker and grab 2 coils to try this out.Hopefully wont burn the ecu..hhehe

[EvilChief]

Originally Posted by Stav

Evil chief..Are you sure rpm is from the crank sensor? I am a bit wary as the v8's definately need tac adapters for the mds dis4 system.They dont run otherwise.This leaves me wondering if the six au also relies on the same principle for its ecu rev input? The haltech uses the crank sensor for rpm so I am not yet certian what will happen.

I know of the ls1 coils but was not sure if my ecu can cope with sinking a trigger above a certain amperage. I suppose we can try. The existing coilpacks fire in pairs so if the current ecu is doing that then I dont see why it cannot fire 2 separate ls1 coils.
The only other issue in my mind is that I have read that wasted spark au fires the coil 2 times per cycle.I believe it fires one coil positive and has a negative on the other.The effect is a weaker spark in the non firing cylinder.I am notsure that this is correct as more often than not most people say that the coils fire up a paired coilpack with a positive charge? I am not sure on this yet either.Any more info would be great..

stav: as for rpm generation i am 100% certain that AUs generate their rpm of crank signal predominantly. i wired up to an e6x to an au a few months ago and had to look into that.

the triggering of the au coilpacks as well as the LS1 is done through negative signalling, again same principal i have used when i converted a camry from dizzy to waste spark coilpacks LS1 (again wired two coilpacks together and used one signal to fire both)

[Stav]

Originally Posted by EvilChief

stav: as for rpm generation i am 100% certain that AUs generate their rpm of crank signal predominantly. i wired up to an e6x to an au a few months ago and had to look into that.

the triggering of the au coilpacks as well as the LS1 is done through negative signalling, again same principal i have used when i converted a camry from dizzy to waste spark coilpacks LS1 (again wired two coilpacks together and used one signal to fire both)

Youre a wonderful man you know!! hehe

Thanks :

So each coil pack pair we have now should run the 2 new corresponding ls1 coils with their 1 negative pulse..correct?

[Stav]

Originally Posted by Stav

Youre a wonderful man you know!! hehe

Thanks :

So each coil pack pair we have now should run the 2 new corresponding ls1 coils with their 1 negative pulse..correct?

What am I saying!!! it will work...

[EvilChief]

Originally Posted by Stav

Youre a wonderful man you know!! hehe

Thanks :

So each coil pack pair we have now should run the 2 new corresponding ls1 coils with their 1 negative pulse..correct?

correct, Cyl 1 & 6, 2 & 5, 3 & 4 will be run of the same negative trigger ( i cant quite remember the wiring colours, it was something like yellow, yellow/black and yellow/red and the red one for 12V postive) please note that the LS1 coilpacks also run two constant negative wires for their inbuild ignition modules (each coil has 4 wires going into them - from left to right: 12V, signal, earth, earth or just look up a wiring diagram on google)

Mic

[Stav]

I have the info for our cars wiring. On the holdens I know that from my installation work that pink is the ignition and the other wires i can work out .

I hope it makes a difference..

[bloggs24]

Im interested in what your trying to do Stav, and updates?

[Stav]

Got a price on the coilpacks from a holden wrecker...the price was far better than I expected. 120 dollars for the set. I may need a stronger spark to burn the excess oil slipping past my oil rings lol

[Stav]

Now lets see if the car runs at all with them.Lets see if I burn my computer

[EvilChief]

if its all wired up right, it wont burn nothing

its just a series of switches ;)

[Stav]

Sorry for the slow progress guys..Just havent had time to get this happening. I am focusing on my work.I am going to become number 1 very soon down here. eheh. Feeling great and taking no prisoners..lol

Wont be long though that Ill have the hot little coils in my hands.In the meantime I may wire a new loom from the ecu so it makes the installation quicker.

The only issue is mounting the coils...but I will sort when Iget a second ..

[EvilChief]

haha ... no worries mate
let me know if ur supplier has a few more Ls1s lying around, i always need them, got two more coil conversions coming up over christmas

[Stav]

Originally Posted by EvilChief

haha ... no worries mate
let me know if ur supplier has a few more Ls1s lying around, i always need them, got two more coil conversions coming up over christmas

Mate..the impression I got is he has alot of them .How many do you think youll need? Maybe I will start doing those for the au's lol

[EvilChief]

i prolly start with another lot of 8 (two 4 cylinders)

[EvilChief]

unless he wants to make a deal on two sets

[Stav]

i was quoted on six coil packs. I will haggle for 16..

[EvilChief]

haha, no worries