Uncomfortably accurate...

[2011G6E]

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/v...011-1li2g.html
As much as people might not like it, they're pretty much right. With the power and economy of smaller engines (especially diesels) the days are probably numbered of big capacity big cylinder engines. Increasingly strong regulatory changes that are in the wind don't make it easy for
Larger engines.
There's also the fact that the old idea of "but...people need big engines in cars for towing caravans and horse floats!" Doesn't hold...if people are going to tow big stuff, they buy a four wheel drive, and even their engines are, mostly, getting smaller.
Even the six cylinders are getting smaller in capacity now, and it would be foolish for car makers here to ignore reality and keep pouring hundreds of millions into developing and redeveloping huge V8's when the world is going the other direction...the Yanks got stung like that when the "huge SUV" craze died down sharply in the early 2000's, and the makers were stuck with dozens of acres of unsellable trucks while the public started demanding smaller more economical cars.

It is hardly profitable to keep producing cars that are only bought by a vanishingly small minority of buyers...possibly you can raise tyhe prices of the rest of the range to subsidise the specialist models, but sooner or later reality bites.

I'm very happy with the excellent 4.0 six cylinder h our G6E...I love the little 4.2 V8 in our old WB Ute...but I am also realistic enough to know that as uncomfortable as it may be, the days of engines like this are numbered...

[302 XC]

Looking at the new range of 4 cylinder 4x4s
They make great power and torque
But they usually are turboed and intercooled (Crank that boost baby)
So you really have in effect perhaps unreliable power ???
The older larger engines,are reliable and do the job day in day out, without a fuss
I have a 4.2 petrol GQ for towing, theres nothin it wont pull, yeah its thirsty ,but it does the job it was bought for
Get me an old 4.2 diesel patrol motor run a big intercooler,heaps of boost like a new engine and then see why the larger engines are good for a reason


I think in this day and age , cars getting 10L/100Ks or more just shouldnt happen

[Falc'man]

Nothing new; everyone's downsizing and to good effect.

[Ford_The_Win]

Big 6 and 8 cylinder engines will always be around as long as there is a market for them, however small. I don't think Mercedes or any of the premium marques will be abandoning their V8s, V10s and V12s any time soon. That being said I think as the baby boomers and Generation X get older and die off, V8s will die with them.

[mik]

some of us do buy cars to tow with, i have no need to ride around in a truck like ute all year, and could`nt afford to run both anyway, but it would`nt surprise me if the time comes when it will become too much of a luxury to own a large vehicle of any sort for the average joe, hopefully that is some time off yet.

[dimka100]

There is absolutely not a single argument against a smaller turbo charged engine, the benefits are just too big for manufacturers to pass:
• Much better fuel consumption and lower emissions,
• Much better power curves, say 2000rpm – 5000rpm flat torque curve,
• Much easier to deliver high peak power numbers,
• Much smaller and more compact size,
• Lighter smaller engines,
• Easier to fit into a smaller engine bay, hence leavening more space for leg room,
• Small turbo setup is actually cheaper these days than a larger N/A displacement …

Back in the 90s turbocharged engines had a few drawbacks which made them not a viable options in a number of scenarios, however with the huge development of numerous engine and turbo technologies these drawbacks have been completely eliminated and now the advantages of turbo charging can be fully exploited to their max …

[Mr Hardware]

This will not happen anytime soon. Volvo is correct that turbo petrol 4's are excellent, but we all know what the public's acceptance of things like that is like, especially with draconian laws like P platers can't drive turbos. What's wrong with a ~20 year old girl with a couple of years driving experience driving her mum's Cruze 1.4L ITI?

[Martyvan]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

What's wrong with a ~20 year old girl with a couple of years driving experience driving her mum's Cruze 1.4L ITI?

The fact its a cruze? and not a focus?

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

This will not happen anytime soon. Volvo is correct that turbo petrol 4's are excellent, but we all know what the public's acceptance of things like that is like, especially with draconian laws like P platers can't drive turbos. What's wrong with a ~20 year old girl with a couple of years driving experience driving her mum's Cruze 1.4L ITI?

I think they will probably add the turbo Cruze and possibly the Ecoboost Falcon to their exempt vehicles list. I think it's fair enough keeping young irresponsible bogans cashed up with mining money out of XR6 turbos and Subaru STis though.

[Polyal]

Obviously we have come a fair way since the 80's when it comes to downsizing and forced induction. The only thing that gets me is the maintenance costs. I dont have nay evidence of for or against but are these cars going to cost us more to keep on the road?

XR6T's seem to be doing ok, I think most would be well on there way to 200,000k's by now perhaps? Doesnt seem to be anything drastically wrong that you wouldnt expect from any other car with the same kms.

Thats my only gripe, other than that who cars how many cylinders, or what fuel it runs on. If it performs as well and costs the same if not less to run than its predecessor then bring it on.

[prydey]

last time i checked, ford offer many 4cyl engines, some turbo, some diesel, some both.

thankfully they offer choice and those of us who still like larger cars with larger engines still have an option in the ford stable.

for those who want a large car but don't want the stigma that is attached to larger engines, then from early next year, falcon will be offered with a 4cyl.

this technology that makes smaller engines more powerful, can also be used on larger engines. its not unique to smaller engines. have a look at the economy and power of some of the 6cyl and v8 and even v10 engines around the globe. some have economy figures that wouldn't have been out of place on a 6cyl only 10yrs ago, whilst achieving probably well over double the power.

big engines aren't done with yet.

[Bossxr8]

Hence why Ford are covering those bases with the Ecoboost Falcon, lower capacity with good power and torque and better economy.

But IMO Volvo switching to a sole 4 cylinder line up is just dumb. They have nothing to compete with big engined Audi's, BMW's, Mercedes, Lexus etc. Although they are all intorducing smaller engined entry models they are keeping bigger engined versions higher up the line up for people who want them, and people who are cashed up enough to buy big luxury cars couldn't care less if the cost more to run in terms of fuel use. They would think small engines are for the poor or tightarses.

[XARATE]

Theres one exception i know of- toyota landcruisers. No longer available as a 6cyl its either single or twin turbo v8 woohooo

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Hence why Ford are covering those bases with the Ecoboost Falcon, lower capacity with good power and torque and better economy.

But IMO Volvo switching to a sole 4 cylinder line up is just dumb. They have nothing to compete with big engined Audi's, BMW's, Mercedes, Lexus etc. Although they are all intorducing smaller engined entry models they are keeping bigger engined versions higher up the line up for people who want them, and people who are cashed up enough to buy big luxury cars couldn't care less if the cost more to run in terms of fuel use. They would think small engines are for the poor or tightarses.

Maybe they just know their place?

If you wanted a big cube luxury car would you buy a Volvo? I wouldnt no matter the spec. Not because its bad but just because thats not the image/car I would want.

If they focus on their strengths then they become "leaders" in that field.

[dimka100]

Exactly! Volvo is not trying to compete at the high end luxury and performance market segments with the likes of AMG or M Division. Volvo is actually a bit like Ford - they simply make an average man's car (i.e. shopping trolley) and for that a turbo 4 cylinder is more than enough ...

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Maybe they just know their place?

If you wanted a big cube luxury car would you buy a Volvo? I wouldnt no matter the spec. Not because its bad but just because thats not the image/car I would want.

If they focus on their strengths then they become "leaders" in that field.

I'd understand them dropping the V8, but to drop the turbo 6's which the biggest is only 3.2 litres then I don't see why. All their competitors have 6 cylinder engines available, and even cheaper price competitors have 6 cylinders like Alfa, Saab, VW, Skoda etc.

They are direct competitors, moreso than MB, BMW, Audi, Lexus etc.

[Polyal]

But if the turbo 4 gives comparative performance then what does it matter?

I think their biggest issue was not continuing to have a "hero" wagon. Everyone knows Volvo building good wagons and they have dropped the ball a bit on that.

Just because you compete with the other euros doesnt mean you have to be in every segment, just like the falcon it can only demand so much investment.

It also means they will save a HEAP of cash with multiple engines, which works in theory as long as you nail the one solution you choose.

Its not as crazy as it sounds if they execute it correctly.

[mik]

Originally Posted by dimka100

There is absolutely not a single argument against a smaller turbo charged engine, the benefits are just too big for manufacturers to pass:
• Much better fuel consumption and lower emissions,
• Much better power curves, say 2000rpm – 5000rpm flat torque curve,
• Much easier to deliver high peak power numbers,
• Much smaller and more compact size,
• Lighter smaller engines,
• Easier to fit into a smaller engine bay, hence leavening more space for leg room,
• Small turbo setup is actually cheaper these days than a larger N/A displacement …

Back in the 90s turbocharged engines had a few drawbacks which made them not a viable options in a number of scenarios, however with the huge development of numerous engine and turbo technologies these drawbacks have been completely eliminated and now the advantages of turbo charging can be fully exploited to their max …

not entirely true, there are more working parts on a turbo engine = more cost, turbo is probably the first engine component to fail = more cost.
re: fuel economy, a turbo driven hard with similar power levels to a similar output larger N/A engine can also drink like a sailor on leave, off boost yes it has an advantage.

[b055m4n]

I'm with you on that one MIK and that applies to supercharged engine also.

[onfire]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

Big 6 and 8 cylinder engines will always be around as long as there is a market for them, however small. I don't think Mercedes or any of the premium marques will be abandoning their V8s, V10s and V12s any time soon. That being said I think as the baby boomers and Generation X get older and die off, V8s will die with them.

But with that being said, there's always market for high end vehicles, and even excessive ones at that.

Smaller sedans with smaller engines are a reflection of the times, case in point the Commodore downsize in the late 1970s and early 80s. The popular range of Mitsubishi and Nissan sedans and wagons of the same period. And of course, the rise of Japanese hatches and coupes to going along with it.

It's history repeating itself.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by dimka100

Exactly! Volvo is not trying to compete at the high end luxury and performance market segments with the likes of AMG or M Division. Volvo is actually a bit like Ford - they simply make an average man's car (i.e. shopping trolley) and for that a turbo 4 cylinder is more than enough ...

The difference is that Volvo was seen on a similar level as Audi and Lexus
but has slipped down the ranks due to lack of exciting product.

IMO, Volvo should have done more with I-5T, I-6T and 4.4V8. Their failure to press home a clear
advantage with those engines is why they fell into disrepair under Ford and now Geely holding group

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by onfire

But with that being said, there's always market for high end vehicles, and even excessive ones at that.

Smaller sedans with smaller engines are a reflection of the times, case in point the Commodore downsize in the late 1970s and early 80s. The popular range of Mitsubishi and Nissan sedans and wagons of the same period. And of course, the rise of Japanese hatches and coupes to going along with it.

It's history repeating itself.

But the difference is, petrol isn't going to drop in price like it did in the early 1980s, if it does it won't by much. Full size V8 cars made a comeback afterwards, with the introduction of the full-sized Commodore and the return of the V8 in the EB. I doubt that will happen this time around.

[jpd80]

Look at Jaguar XF, 2.2 TD, 3.0TD. V6 and 5.0 S/C.

If Ford were to emulate XF Jaguar in the next gen Falcon, I think they would capture much more market share,
having the whole gamut of engines from 5.5 l/100 km economy through to 500 hp V8 is an astonishing feat,
nearly all of those types of engines are potentially available to FoA.

The more I think about Flappist's idea regarding increasing the quality of Falcon,
the more I see Jaguar products like XF and XJ, maybe even an XK ... all for Lincoln?

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/v...011-1li2g.html
As much as people might not like it, they're pretty much right. With the power and economy of smaller engines (especially diesels) the days are probably numbered of big capacity big cylinder engines. Increasingly strong regulatory changes that are in the wind don't make it easy for
Larger engines.
There's also the fact that the old idea of "but...people need big engines in cars for towing caravans and horse floats!" Doesn't hold...if people are going to tow big stuff, they buy a four wheel drive, and even their engines are, mostly, getting smaller.
Even the six cylinders are getting smaller in capacity now, and it would be foolish for car makers here to ignore reality and keep pouring hundreds of millions into developing and redeveloping huge V8's when the world is going the other direction...the Yanks got stung like that when the "huge SUV" craze died down sharply in the early 2000's, and the makers were stuck with dozens of acres of unsellable trucks while the public started demanding smaller more economical cars.

It is hardly profitable to keep producing cars that are only bought by a vanishingly small minority of buyers...possibly you can raise tyhe prices of the rest of the range to subsidise the specialist models, but sooner or later reality bites.

I'm very happy with the excellent 4.0 six cylinder h our G6E...I love the little 4.2 V8 in our old WB Ute...but I am also realistic enough to know that as uncomfortable as it may be, the days of engines like this are numbered...

YEAH ..... THEY SAID THAT IN 1984 TOO......

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by mik

re: fuel economy, a turbo driven hard with similar power levels to a similar output larger N/A engine can also drink like a sailor on leave, off boost yes it has an advantage.

Mate has an old MK patrol , SD33 turbo
He is running 15 PSI and returns 12L/100Ks
Compared to the new breed it seems a tad on the dear side,but its over 20 odd years old , has quite a few Ks under its belt
Although technology is great, i wouldnt put faith in the new breed to last 20 years , let alone handle 15 PSI

As for the economy on boost,
Years ago dad had 2 toys , an ET pulsar turbo (new) and an FC LTD 351
Both when the pedal was pushed drank like a fish
I cant remember exactly what was faster at the time
A four whistling its lungs out or a 351 4 barrell wide open
I do remember 1 thing
The four never pushed ya in the seat like the 8

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I'd understand them dropping the V8, but to drop the turbo 6's which the biggest is only 3.2 litres then I don't see why. All their competitors have 6 cylinder engines available, and even cheaper price competitors have 6 cylinders like Alfa, Saab, VW, Skoda etc.

They are direct competitors, moreso than MB, BMW, Audi, Lexus etc.

God i hope they dont drop the I6T, but looks like it will go the way or the I5T. OT ive become very fond of newer Volvos

[Silver Ghia]

Happy with my XR50 na fuel consumption. I'm very used to having the space in the car to stretch out at the lights without having to be cramped like if I had a smaller car. Cant see me having anything smaller for quite a while, which would use probably only around 20% less maybe. And LP gas is not an option as I need the bootspace and fold down rear seats for my planes. The XR50 will hopefully do me for some years to come.

Had the FG for a year today, I've recorded all the fuel fills since delivery on an Excel spreadsheet together with the KM's, just turned over 21,003 km when I got home tonight. So these are actual litres measured by the bowser. The trip computer is a little optimistic, shows 9.1lt/100km average, haven't reset it for ages.

[DJM83]

Having had bigger cars (Falcons) i was hesitant moving to a smaller car. I initially never went looking for a smaller car but bought one. My Focus can fit all of our luggage in it for our annual Brisbane-Albury trip no worries at all when compared to my old AU. Plus it does everything i want it to do. It doesnt lack in the go dept either. Fuel econ (hasnt been reset since i bought the car 13mths ago) is at 9.4L/100 only because i just returned from interstate its usually around 10.5-11L/100

[Elks]

It's happening at the pointy end too.

6.2 N/A HSV is eclipsed by 5.0 supercharged FPV.

Boost is go.

[LyleXR8]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

I think they will probably add the turbo Cruze and possibly the Ecoboost Falcon to their exempt vehicles list. I think it's fair enough keeping young irresponsible bogans cashed up with mining money out of XR6 turbos and Subaru STis though.

The young diesels fitters in WA don't **** around with XR6 turbos and STIs, I work with a couple of apprentices that are wheeling twin turbo VZ clubby, harrop blown VE SS ute, and NOS fed BA pursuit. No P plate laws in WA, some of these guys are 17-18 and on 70k and upwards