New capa chip anyone got it?

[BELTA]

Has anyone got the new capa chip for E-series from Jim mock or elsewhere? if so what kind of power gains did u get? and was it worth the $1500? or has anyone got mockys intake manifold?
Cheers

[AdzT3-146]

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=70936

[SXCXR6]

Mate ive heard things like 20rwkw increase others have told me 6rwkw if your lucky this has been from dyno technicains not guys at the bus stop ive found a dude that would do the chip for me for $900 bucks tuned and fitted said everyone else was just profiting the **** off the chip coz its new i know another guy who got it removed because it sent his rwks backwards!!! needless to say at the moment its a mixed bag im sure it does what it claims to do and im not rocking any boats just given the guy all the info i know off.

[BELTA]

hey dude where bouts was that guy that would do it 4 $900 not a bad price? apparently it takes a long time 2 tune it thats why its so expensive, but if this guy is good and knows what he is doing sounds good?
Cheers

[JUZXR8]

is the chip just for the I6 or is it for the V8's aswell?

[AdzT3-146]

Originally Posted by JUZXR8

is the chip just for the I6 or is it for the V8's aswell?

It's for both.

[BLSTIC]

no idea why it would take a long time, they copy your existing program onto the chip (or pull it from file), and modify it from there, they don't make anything from scratch.

That said I don't think its real-time tuneable.

cya
Ben

[ratter]

Originally Posted by BLSTIC

no idea why it would take a long time, they copy your existing program onto the chip (or pull it from file), and modify it from there, they don't make anything from scratch.

How long do you think it should take then?

[BLSTIC]

By my theory (I have only limited experience tuning cars on a dyno) not longer than an hour or so (*EDIT: tuning time*), but only for cars with light modifications.

Before you shoot me, most of the time most cars spend their time at low/mid loads and low-mid rpm. Which is surprisingly enough where most manufacters have closed loop ignition and fuel control (via knock and O2 sensors), which lets you get away with most things.

Medium loads and high rpm are rarely encountered, so not so much attention is payed here.

Which leaves high loads only. These are encountered more often than mid load/high rpm, and not being covered by most closed loop systems, need more attention. It is also the selling point of a tune. "They got me 250rwkw, up from 200" is shouted from more rooftops than "Geez, part throttle grunt has gone up heaps".

Of course, as soon as you add headwork, a cam, a (decent) compression change, or boost, you have to do a lot of work for the car to drive like it used to (which is where the big times come in).

The chip is a plug-in to the main computer, so installation is easier than most tuneable computers.

***EDIT:

The other big money spend is decoding the first ecu dump for that particular car. It takes a large amount of time, effort, and skill to decode the file that contains all of the maps and flags for any engine management system. I forgot to mention this before.

/EDIT***

cya
Ben

[ratter]

I've never experienced closed loop timing control.

I suggest you look at what the programme controls before assuming that it could be done quickly. Although in closed loop the o2 sensor trys to control a/f ratio at 14.7 (lambda 1) you can still control the base fuel map for cold running or under load situations when the o2 is not being used, You can even tell the ecu when not to look at the o2 based on rpm's and throttle position.
Theres 80 sites to adjust for the base fuel table and there's another 96 to adjust for cold start fuel tables, And then their are multipliers based on intake air temp, coolant temp etc etc.
There is injector high and low slopes, injector breakpoints etc etc to adjust .

The timing tables are even more complicated and are where the real power will come from and it is controlled by the knock tables and not by closed loop timing control. if the car has a knock sensor, the amount of retard can also be altered and how sensitive the knock sensor is, the spark tables also have their own set of mulitpliers and retards.

I suggest next time somebody is talking to their tuner about the programming, just ask them to open the programme and see how many adjustments are possible, although not everything needs to be adjusted their will still be a huge list of things that do to get the best from your car.

[BLSTIC]

Yes I am aware of what can be controlled by the computer. I have a similar program installed on the computer in front of me (TunerPro, can edit most engine management programs, if proper definition files have been made, which they have for the ford EEC computers). The point was mainly about nearly standard engines, ones that arent far enough from factory to worry about cold starting and the like.

I was under the impression that AU 6Cyl's have, along with the failsafe cooling, closed loop ignition timing, with the computer advancing till knock is detected, then retarding until knock goes away, holding for a time, then repeating. I imagine that would only be under certain conditions though. I havent actually found any part of the program that can alter this though (Although I can't find the correct files for the AU).

cya
Ben

[ratter]

Hav'nt seen tuner pro, can you alter tunes and on what cars?


Although not all points need to be adjusted, it still will take some time to set up fuel tables step by step (no live tuning) and then go through all the timing points step by step seeing how much timing it will take and then adjusting it so it does not ping. etc etc

[BLSTIC]

true. I guess a good way to do ignition tuning would be to make the knock retard values small, and look at the knock retard value on a scanguage.

TunerPro can adjust just about any engine management system that has its memory in an EPROM style chip. This makes up the majority of half decent ecu's from the late 80's to late 90's. I am unsure what later models use. EEC IV and V fall under this category, as do most subaru's, the GM Delco computers (commodores and camiras from 87/88 - ~96 ish), and a few mitsubishis. Basically anything that anyone makes a chip for. The only real restriction is decoding the information in the EPROM dump file (ie determining what values represent tables, what represent constants, what are flags, and what each thing actually does), once you do this, it can do almost anything.

Incedentally they also do a realtime version, called TunerPro RT, and with the aid of a suitable EPROM emulator, realtime programming is possible for most things.

[ratter]

Originally Posted by BLSTIC

true. I guess a good way to do ignition tuning would be to make the knock retard values small, and look at the knock retard value on a scanguage.

The best way is to turn off the knock sensor when tuning and turn it back on as a safety thing when the ideal map is created. The only drama is that not all cars use a knock sensor.

[BLSTIC]

or that...