Alternator troubles.....

robbo_yobbo · 04-07-2007, 09:52 AM

Heres the leadup....

Im driving my car and over the period od 1 hour, I watch the voltage display drop from 12/13v down to below 10 when the car coffs and splutters.
I charge up the battery and the cars good to drive for another hour.

I figure, it must be the alternator, and as I was putting that motor in my new *(not so new) car on the weekend anyway, so swapped the alternator at the same time with another one.

Now I only get about 1/2 an hours worth of driving (on the same motor in different car with a different alternator) before theres not enough charge in the battery to run the car.

Is this just a huge coincidence and the new (used) alternator is screwed too, or could there be something else going on?

I took the motor, engine harnes, ecu, dash+dash loom, bem and transponder out from the old car and put it in the new car with the motor, so if its not the alternator it must be somerthing in here?

Or could it be I just havnt plugged something in???

Does the alternator run stand alone, or is it told when to switch on and off???

Cheers

svo347 · 04-07-2007, 10:10 AM

Runs constantly, It could also be that your battery is on its way out. Go to a battery store they have the gear to test your battery underload and send you in the right direction for free ie BatteryWorld etc

iwannaford · 04-07-2007, 04:10 PM

Check yo relays cable and have the alternator load tested by a sparkie, might cost 10 bucks and 5 mins of his time. From what you have described above, mostly points to dead alternator and or charging system. (IE Regulator, relays wiring etc)

Sledgehammer · 04-07-2007, 05:57 PM

Hey someones else is telling my story, I get 20 min out of mine and its all over, but then its either that or no fuel left.

sly · 04-07-2007, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwannaford

Check yo relays cable and have the alternator load tested by a sparkie, might cost 10 bucks and 5 mins of his time. From what you have described above, mostly points to dead alternator and or charging system. (IE Regulator, relays wiring etc)

If doing that it's worth having the voltage regulator checked too. They can fail with mysterious symptoms that even stump sparkies...

smally289 · 04-07-2007, 09:55 PM

And they dont like a guts full of power steering oil either. Make sure your pump / hose isnt leaking.

robbo_yobbo · 04-07-2007, 10:57 PM

the old one was full of power steering fluid, thats why I ended up changing it in the first place, but I fixed the leak.
I somehow ended up doing worse on the alternator I replaced it with. I pulled the alternator off of another car and never noticed a problem with it, but having said that, I had only driven that car 5 or 6 times in the past and it didnt have a voltmeter.
Even still I cant help but think the problem is elsewhere as its such a huuge coincidence.

FGII-XR6 · 05-07-2007, 12:08 AM

I saw a BA with alternator problems the other day ! the conrod came out and hit it

sorry I know this is of no help but just had say it he did a damn good job BTW shattered the sump, block and alternator

robbo_yobbo · 05-07-2007, 09:17 PM

I actualy have another problem where the engine starts itself when switched to the run position (read here - http://aufalcon.com.au/showthread.php?t=107312) is it possible these things could be related.......

IE, lets say theres a short in the power distribution box giving power to the starter motor while the ignition is switched to RUN, that could potentialy mean the starter motor is continualy running the whole time while driving?......

Would that be enough to drain the battery in 1/2 hr while driving around with the lights on? or would it have burned out

What happens to all your cars if you hold the key over on START after the engine has fired, can you hear the starter motor still, or does the starter motor have a ratchet type setup where if the flywheel's spinning faster, it just rotates freely?

Im clutching at straws now!

blacklabel · 09-07-2007, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robbo_yobbo

Heres the leadup....

Im driving my car and over the period od 1 hour, I watch the voltage display drop from 12/13v down to below 10 when the car coffs and splutters.
I charge up the battery and the cars good to drive for another hour.

I figure, it must be the alternator, and as I was putting that motor in my new *(not so new) car on the weekend anyway, so swapped the alternator at the same time with another one.

Now I only get about 1/2 an hours worth of driving (on the same motor in different car with a different alternator) before theres not enough charge in the battery to run the car.

I have just had my dead alternator replaced with a brand spankers one and I had all the symptoms you have described.
So I would be getting your alternator checked first-everything else second.
(except of course for checking the simple things like battery terminal connections and belt tension,and alternator terminal connectors)
They don't just "sort of go" either-they are literally working one minute then dead the next.

Has your battery warning light been lit up,either flashing or solid on your cluster?
If your alternator isn't working properly,this will immediately begin showing,at first flickering,and then finally glowing solid as your alternator goes from dying to stone dead!
And if it is alternator,as it looks to be, then you may want to check out the prices between a reconditioned one and a brand new one.
I'm in NZ,but my mechanic only paid and extra $60 for the brand new one over the reconditioned one,and I got 9 months more warranty out of the brand new one-so well worth the extra few bucks,and of course,it is genuine Bosch Aus,rather than a reconditioned "bitza"...

And don't be tempted to keep charging up your battery so you can keep driving,even with a crapped out alternator,as it will begin to have major BAD effects on your engine management system,ecu,and other electronic componentry.Things will begin to go hay-wire pretty quick.Your ABS, power assisted brake/steering etc...are all affected when your charging system goes down.
Just my two cents worth.

Good luck bro!

robbo_yobbo · 09-07-2007, 05:38 PM

The battery light hasnt come on at all, which is why Ive been checking everything else possible first, I think the alternator is gone and its just coincidence, the car wont run with the battery removed (off of alternator power) like I would have expected it to.

I did fix the starting problem though - It was a short in the power distribution box from the fuel pump realay to the starter motor - so it appears the starter motor was running the whole time which I dont think would have helped, but the battery now seems to die even quicker than it did before, 5mins in the driveway and I just watch the voltmeter go down down down down, the higher I hold the revs, the quicker it sinks.

The genuine articals are Mitsubishi/Motorcraft as far as I know, but whats the actual difference?? Im guessing they'll both bolt up, and both provide power, maybe one has a higher output than the other, but is there anything to stop me from getting either or??

blacklabel · 09-07-2007, 06:14 PM

Definetly sounds like a charging relating problem/fault-especially as your battery is just not being charged,and consequently being drained quickly when starting etc...
Strange that your battery/charging icon is not lit up on your cluster though.
Perhaps your alternator could be ok,but the fault is with regulator/solenoid?
It also pays to check your battery fuse in the engine bay fuse box.This only blows as a result of a fault/problem with the charging system however,so it is the indicator rather than the cure.

Maybe some memebers with a bit more expertise may be able to help you out here.

And I wouldn't ever attempt to run the engine with a battery lead/battery disconnected! Major no no! Not only are you likely to fry your electronics etc..,if your alternator is ok and charging and your positive battery lead isn't connected then all that charge has to go somewhere...very bad for the health!

Good luck

robbo_yobbo · 09-07-2007, 06:43 PM

[QUOTE=blacklabel]

And I wouldn't ever attempt to run the engine with a battery lead/battery disconnected! Major no no! QUOTE]

Lol, ive done it too many times to count on both hands - thats my standard alternator test! I figure if theres more power than needed the alternator should reduce its output, if theres not enough charge, the car should die.

The alternator that died that was removed was a Bosch (are these the motorsport ones??) and It was replaced with the Mitsuishi one.

Could this be the problem?? I dont see how, but you never know....

FGII-XR6 · 09-07-2007, 06:57 PM

[QUOTE=robbo_yobbo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacklabel

And I wouldn't ever attempt to run the engine with a battery lead/battery disconnected! Major no no! QUOTE]

Lol, ive done it too many times to count on both hands - thats my standard alternator test! I figure if theres more power than needed the alternator should reduce its output, if theres not enough charge, the car should die.

The alternator that died that was removed was a Bosch (are these the motorsport ones??) and It was replaced with the Mitsuishi one.

Could this be the problem?? I dont see how, but you never know....

most of the time it's not a drama but it can cause a voltage spike and all the associated dramas

bingoTE50 · 09-07-2007, 07:52 PM

It sounds like the system is working in reverse. The battery drains quick the more you rev it , opposite to what you want. Sounds like a regulator fault , I would have it to a auto elect , or maybe , if you have road service ,maybe they can pin point it .

robbo_yobbo · 09-07-2007, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bingoTE50

It sounds like the system is working in reverse. The battery drains quick the more you rev it , opposite to what you want. Sounds like a regulator fault , I would have it to a auto elect , or maybe , if you have road service ,maybe they can pin point it .

I never actualy thought of that possibility, I just assumed that higher revs meant more spark plug fires and more injector fires per second meant more energy consumed thus the faster draining.

martymonsta · 09-07-2007, 11:11 PM

hey rob no offence but a car will not run without a battery no matter what,even with a dead battery after you disconect the jumper leads it will die.
the alternator can't power all the elec needs because it is a trickle type charge and the higher the revs the more it produces.
as for mitsubushi its an elec division like bosch and you will find most alternators with the mitsy logo.
but hey good luck

robbo_yobbo · 11-07-2007, 10:35 AM

had a valiant, xf, gemini, and eb that all run without batteries - admitedly all carbuerated - the gemi we used to just hook up to jumper leads and take it paddock bashing with no battery at all! Never had to try it on the AU before now so may well be a different story.
I didnt want to pay $400 from ford so now its just a matter of waiting for one to end on ebay, I guess Ill find out if thats the real problem then!

robbo_yobbo · 11-07-2007, 07:40 PM

EXCELENT!!!
Problem solved, didnt involve any new parts, and it didnt involve spending any money!!!

:

bingoTE50 you hit the nail on the head with the systom working in reverse - but how is this possible (that was my thought anyway)???

Well the charge/earth leads werent on backwards if thats what your thinking (dont worry I checked that too!) but it appears that the alternator is infact not actualy self regulating (like ford told me it was when I rang and asked before deciding not to spend $400 when I found out the price of a new one).

theres 2 little wires that clip onto the back that go to the ecu, while fiddleing around, I accidently unclipped one of the wires, and watched the multimeter jump from 11 volts up to 16!!.....

I figured this must have something to do with the problem, clipped the wire back on and it dropped back to 10V.

I swapped the wires arround, and it jumpped back up to 15.8volts!!!!

It turns out, the ECU decides when the alternator should stop charging, with no signal from the ECU it charges fully, and the greater the signal from the ECU, the less it charges - with them on backwards, I was getting a negative charge (which I didnt think was possible).

Everything seemed well, once it was running, I disconnected the battery, and the car continued to run on alternator power. (Maybee your alternator is on its way out martymonster if the car wont run on the alternator alone? just a thought).

So all is well, the cars fixed, and that seemed to solve a couple of other bizzare mysteries that the problem was causing aswell (even if it was an accidental fluke I even found the problem). and ford didnt earn any more pocket money from me either - thats what makes me happiest!!
Cheers for the help to everyone who tipped in a suggestion.

peterban · 11-07-2007, 08:24 PM

Strange. Ford usually make the plugs different so that sort of thing doesn't happen to critical components.
Glad it is all sorted without the loss of any money.

robbo_yobbo · 11-07-2007, 08:47 PM

the plugs dont look original-thier just slip on/off plugs - not clips like everything else on the loom. The alternator came from another AU which was an ex cab, and they do all sorts of things to the wiring on those things, so after 3 ex cabs - Ive learnt not to be surprised by anything!