People in engineering field - advice please!

dogbreath_48 · 14-06-2005, 06:54 PM

EDIT: DELETED A LOT OF UNIMPORTANT STUFF THAT'S LED SOME PEOPLE OFF TOPIC!

I'm looking for other options, and i started to read up on Engineering Technology diploma courses offered by RMIT tafe. From what i've read, these courses offer subjects of varying practicality (i.e. from machining to engineering managment). However, i'm not really sure this is what i'm after. I don't want to learn a trade like machining or welding or diesel engine maintainence and do that my whole life. I want to be more in a design/analysis area i guess - kind of half way between a trade and a managment position. I'm not sure if this is what the tafe diploma offers me.

What i'm after is advice from anyone in the know as to what sort of work i could expect to recieve from a tafe dipoma in Engineering Technology. The specific courses i'm looking at are Engineering Technology (Mechanical/Manufacturing) and Engineering Technology (Principal Technical Officer). The latter is actually an extra year on top of the former.

Here is a few links to the info the RMIT website:
Engineering Technology (Mechanical/Manufacturing)
Subjects Offered

Engineering Technology (Principal Technical Officer)
Subjects Offered

EDIT: DELETED A LOT OF UNIMPORTANT STUFF THAT'S LED SOME PEOPLE OFF TOPIC!

I'm yet to contact the School of Aerospace, Mechanical & Manufacturing Engineering - i've only spoken to the dude at the prospective students office. But before i go and make an appointment, i'd like to hear some opinions form people in the field - wether your a qualified engineer or not.

Any help at all would be GREATLY appreciated - this is the rest of my life i'm deciding here!

-Stu

MAD · 14-06-2005, 07:05 PM

You could try Vic Uni, there is a path by direct application to get in, it consists of a test of some sort.

I am currently doing the PTO course, it is just an extension on the standard mech/manu course. These engineering courses will cease to exist next year I beleive, its being completely re-designed.
As it currently stands, if you complete the PTO course with at least a 75% average, you can walk into RMIT uni at 3rd year level...if you dont have 75% you can still get in, but may have to do some catch-up classes.
There is really not an option to go onto higher ed with the plain mech/manu course, you have to do the PTO. Although if you do the mech/manu course you can still apply for credits when you apply to higher ed, but there is no preference for you like there is for the PTO course.

T_Terror · 14-06-2005, 10:02 PM

Go Vic uni, just talk to the selection officers directly and you can bypass teh whole VTAC bull.

I tired of it too though and really couldnt imagine myself being an eng. tech for the next 5 years so i dropped out.

RMIT TAFE should have some sort of programs that count for credit towards getting into Mech Eng in fact im sure i remember them telling me about it.

Good luck

**M&Ms** · 14-06-2005, 10:10 PM

You don't like maths but want to do engineering. As a 3rd year Mechanical Engineering student, let me tell you that you will definately struggle. Physics is the easy part of engineering IMO (and the most fun). Expect lots and lots (and lots) of hard maths. Just thought that you should know before you get too far into your course.

parawolf · 14-06-2005, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogbreath48

On a seperate note, there's also the option to continue onto a degree program upon completion of both these courses. What are the benefits of the degree over the diploma? I imagine to be able to offer professional services such as engineering certificates on modified cars (just for example) one would need to have completed a degree, rather than just a diploma?

I'm yet to contact the School of Aerospace, Mechanical & Manufacturing Engineering - i've only spoken to the dude at the prospective students office. But before i go and make an appointment, i'd like to hear some opinions form people in the field - wether your a qualified engineer or not.

There is nothing that a degree will 'allow' you to do versus a diploma. It is more an employers perception of one versus the other. TAFE is far more 'practical' and University is more Theory and "Pure". you could almost think of it as the two mathematical streams, "Pure" vs "Applied".

Depends on what you want to do with your life, if you want to work as a mechanic, turning spanners, hands on, then TAFE and experience is the way to go.

If you want to get into Product Development at an automotive company like Ford, then you could a lot worse than a Mech Eng or any similar streamed course and get ACTIVELY (and I mean MASSIVELY ACTIVELY) involved in the Uni Car racing clubs... I can't recall what the project is... But it is a Control Formula... ahh thats it.. Formula SAE.

That on a resume plus some reasonable marks and an internship somewhere with a good reference and you can almost write your own cheque in the Aus Car industry.

A successful Formula SAE program that you have actively been involved in is almost as valuable as your uni work.

gtfpv · 14-06-2005, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by micmansour

You don't like maths but want to do engineering. As a 3rd year Mechanical Engineering student, let me tell you that you will definately struggle. Physics is the easy part of engineering IMO (and the most fun). Expect lots and lots (and lots) of hard maths. Just thought that you should know before you get too far into your course.

LET ME SAY I AGREE STRONGLY WITH THIS STATEMENT.
NOW TO THE AUTHER OF THIS TOPIC you sound like you have chosen the wrong field . an engineering degree is not a walk in the park, it is very very hard and sounds like you are struggling , do you want to be an engineer for the job or for the title.
you don't want to be a tradesmen either. most people biulding and designing machines and running thier own businesses are tradesman , engineers simply could'nt do this without being a tradesman 1st.by the way a trade is also not a walk in the park mate. to become an engineer takes a very long time with much dedication. perhaps you could try one of those cop out mangement skills courses that go for about 2 years part time at tech ,believe it or not these courses combined with the gift of the gab and a long tongue can actually get people into engineering jobs as well as a degree, provided they get to know the right people. not having ago at you but . with engineering you need to go through a n apprentiship and then engineering studies afterwards, with a lot of years working your way up[ , or become a good tradesman and go out on your own. thats about it , unless you know someone . good luck.

:

**M&Ms** · 15-06-2005, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parawolf

There is nothing that a degree will 'allow' you to do versus a diploma. It is more an employers perception of one versus the other. TAFE is far more 'practical' and University is more Theory and "Pure". you could almost think of it as the two mathematical streams, "Pure" vs "Applied".

Depends on what you want to do with your life, if you want to work as a mechanic, turning spanners, hands on, then TAFE and experience is the way to go.

If you want to get into Product Development at an automotive company like Ford, then you could a lot worse than a Mech Eng or any similar streamed course and get ACTIVELY (and I mean MASSIVELY ACTIVELY) involved in the Uni Car racing clubs... I can't recall what the project is... But it is a Control Formula... ahh thats it.. Formula SAE.

That on a resume plus some reasonable marks and an internship somewhere with a good reference and you can almost write your own cheque in the Aus Car industry.

A successful Formula SAE program that you have actively been involved in is almost as valuable as your uni work.

Words of wisdom there mate. I currently study mech eng. at the University of Technology here in Sydney, and I will actually attain a degree AND a diploma at the end of my 5 year course. We do 2 compulsory 6 month internships (work experience, industrial experience, anything you wanna call it), totalling a full years worth of industry work in order to get a diploma. I'm just about finished my first internship (about a month to go) working in a wind engineering company. You learn a hell of a lot on these work experiences ( I learnt how to operate a wind tunnel

) and are extremely worthwhile. I'm sure experience is necessary this day and age as companies can't always afford to hire someone who has absolutely no hands on experience, even if they have received 40 distinctions throughout their time at uni.

Anyway, I hope dogbreath makes the right choice and not end up doing anything he will regret later on. I can happily answer you questions regarding engineering at uni to the best of my knowledge.

oh yeah, parawolf, we got that formula SAE at our uni too, and they reckon having an active involvement in that and putting it in your resume is similar to having 2 years of work experience (must be all the team work that is involved). i'll be looking to join it later this year or early next year. See you at the championships

:

gtfpv · 15-06-2005, 12:43 AM

GOOD ON YOU dude sounds like you are on the right track good luck.

dogbreath_48 · 15-06-2005, 08:58 AM

OK everyone i might have led the topic off track a bit with my overly detailed life story in the first post.

What i want to know is, will the tafe diploma only teach me trade skills like machining/welding/maintainence etc, or will it teach design and managment. Looking at the subjects offered it looks like i can go either way, but i'm not too sure...

dogbreath_48 · 15-06-2005, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by micmansour

You don't like maths but want to do engineering. As a 3rd year Mechanical Engineering student, let me tell you that you will definately struggle. Physics is the easy part of engineering IMO (and the most fun). Expect lots and lots (and lots) of hard maths. Just thought that you should know before you get too far into your course.

That's half the reason i'm looking at a diploma rather than a degree. I can do all the maths in my physics course - but that's all there is. maths and more maths. I want some less apstract application of the maths i learn, if you get what i mean...

dogbreath_48 · 15-06-2005, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

...perhaps you could try one of those cop out mangement skills courses that go for about 2 years part time at tech ,believe it or not these courses combined with the gift of the gab and a long tongue can actually get people into engineering jobs as well as a degree, provided they get to know the right people. not having ago at you but . with engineering you need to go through a n apprentiship and then engineering studies afterwards, with a lot of years working your way up[ , or become a good tradesman and go out on your own. thats about it , unless you know someone . good luck.

:

I wasn't aware an apprenticeship was required to get into engineering? or are you referring to a job placement (work experience if you will) during your course of studies? My understanding was i could walk into an eng diploma, or with good marks an eng. degree...

I've had a look at some mates eng. work (degree work) and the maths doesn't seem that unreasonable - not alot harder than what i've been doing at the moment. Can someone give me an idea of the sorts of things i'd expect in later years of the course (both the diploma and degree)?

MAD · 15-06-2005, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogbreath_48

OK everyone i might have led the topic off track a bit with my overly detailed life story in the first post.

What i want to know is, will the tafe diploma only teach me trade skills like machining/welding/maintainence etc, or will it teach design and managment. Looking at the subjects offered it looks like i can go either way, but i'm not too sure...

I cant say about any other TAFE course, but the RMIT course is pretty much all uni work but at a TAFE pace, considering that is what the course is for....articulating into higher ed.
We did one semester of workshop in the 1st year, we had to make a toolmakers clamp. That was good fun but hardly enough training to go and operate a mill or lathe without supervision.

gtfpv · 15-06-2005, 10:52 AM

dogbreath 48 . i know i came down hard at you . but not personal trying to get you to realise the scope of things regarding your situation . you see what you are taught . and what really happens in the field are 2 differant things.you soun d like you want to design things. for people to make. have you considered a draughting course.
there is multiple ways to achieve your aim . , eg: trade. drafting. engineering degree. engineering diploma. all of these things can be appropriate to that goal.i know some engineers out thier who cant get a job . i know some tradesman out there who have replaced engineers that have been dismissed..but if you want to be in charge of an engineering workshop. a degree is the way to go . bare in mind you still have to compete with all the above. and start as an assistant or low rank engineer and then work your way upnto seniority.its hard for engineers . there is not a high demand as far as number of positions go.you state that you want to design , over being a boss.. so think hard . one thing i have noticed is that degreed engineers don't consider diplomas as highly skilled ( its an arrogance thing). i do know some people with diplomas that get told they are not qualified enough to get a job as an engineer.
you must remember , what happens in the real world isn't what we are tought at tafe or uni . the only real path to a real appropriate respected engineering degree would be in a large company that you work for who sends you to uni for a degree for a purpose in a specialised field, then you know they are training you for a purpose.
now you have to be honest about why you want a degree . otherwise it could be innoppropriate.

dogbreath_48 · 15-06-2005, 02:31 PM

Those last two posts are exactly what i was after, and confirmed my suspicions. Thanks for the advice!

fpvgt no offence taken, i see exactly where your coming from.

I think my best bet may be to bide my time and see how i go marks wise in physics, then decide if i want to do the eng. diploma, THEN after that decide what to do about a degree (as in - to do it or not).

For now i'll just sleep on it for a while. cheers guys!

-Stu