The LPG Decision

BrewAUIII · 25-05-2008, 05:42 PM

I have the Fairmont booked in in 2 weeks time to get a conversion done.(Not Injection) After a trip away this weekend and finding out that i got 35mpg i am wondering if its really worth it? My DTE read 901kms when i filled up this afternoon.
I think that the savings on running costs will be good in the city, but hardly worth using lpg on a country trip.

used:

If i do the conversion will my economy on ulp still be the same as it was before the conversion?

I know there is an lpg forum but i was hoping the AU forum would get more info.

Chamelion · 25-05-2008, 06:02 PM

I'm saving $25+ per tank at the moment. Most of my driving is around town. Gains diminish a little out on the highway but you will still be a reasonable ammount better off.

Considering the cost of putting a mixer ring in a sedan ($400 out of pocket?) you would be nuts not to. LPG is less than half the price of petrol now.

Matt.

MADED-6 · 25-05-2008, 06:31 PM

i have been thinking maybe putting gas on my au but i heard the rebate has come down to $100 instead of $2000.
cheers josh.

BrewAUIII · 25-05-2008, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MADED-6

i have been thinking maybe putting gas on my au but i heard the rebate has come down to $100 instead of $2000.
cheers josh.

Its definitely still $2000.

347 mont · 25-05-2008, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MADED-6

i have been thinking maybe putting gas on my au but i heard the rebate has come down to $100 instead of $2000.
cheers josh.

Someone is telling you porkies mate, still $2000. I've been considering it too, love the sound of the Liquid injection, but the big question, when will it be available?

teabags2 · 25-05-2008, 07:40 PM

I stil get 25 MPG (11.5lt/100) on LPG on a long trip at 110Kph on my Sprintgas Mixer Ring setup on my AU3 Futura Sedan. Roughly the same for the wife's Parnell and my previous factory gas one.
You should be able to work out some costs from there.

Bob.

RodH · 25-05-2008, 10:20 PM

I'm considering booking my au s1 classic in to be converted, wanted to go SVI to avoid any problems(had lpg problems with my XF.. but the xf was packing it in anyway), but really for the extra grand, is it worth it? I don't really mind a slight power loss (just flick it to petrol if I want power...) what other advantages does it have?

bodes-sh · 25-05-2008, 11:09 PM

just do it, mixer systems aren't all that bad. personally, for an au, i wouldn't go svi, they go well enough on mixer's anyway. same as always tho, keep the ignition system in good condition and they will be fine

JC · 26-05-2008, 12:55 AM

I posted this in another thread:
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...25&postcount=8

Summary of linked post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

If you want a cheap install (approx $2700), with slight power reduction (say 15%) and economy (up to 25% worse than petrol), then go for a mixer ring setup. These days with the lean bias processors, both power loss and poor economy are drastically reduced - the figures I have quoted would be worst case. Fpr example, I had a lendi renzo system on my AU Xr8, and lost 6rwkw (out of 144, so ended with 138), and went from 16l/100km on petrol to 18l/100km on gas. And all for $2400 a few years ago (using second hand tank). This would be a dual fuel install.

If you want to spend a bit more (add around $1800 to above prices), and want to absolutely minimise power loss, but not necessarily do much about the poor economy of LPG, then go SVI. Our explorer now uses 22l/100km instead of 18 to 19, but I have only lost 4rwkw. System was $4400 installed, for an Elko, and Sprintgas etc are around the same price. Again, we went for dual fuel.

If you want to go leading edge technology, and use a largely untried system that shows plenty of promise, and actually delivers potentially better power and almost identical economy, then go for liquid injection. Install costs are probably around the same as SVI/VSI, but waiting list will be extreme at this point, as it's really only just hit the market. Not sure on viability of this system as a dual fuel proposition, but I do know it would be the better system for straight gas.

For an AU, I'd be looking at an SVI setup if you intend to keep the car for another 2 years, otherwise, just get a mixer ring setup from someone who knows what they're doing (and insist on lean bias processor), and for the $700 odd out of pocket it will cost you, you will save that inside about 6 months, and from thereon, you will be saving money and (slightly) the environment.

Night · 26-05-2008, 01:02 AM

I put it on my fairmont and can tell you it is worth it. I've lost about 40 klms a tank but with the price difference with petrol it saves heaps. Power side of it you do notice a fair difference but when you want power just put it back on petrol, and when highway driving the lpg mileage is pretty bad. My car is stock apart from exhaust and my system aint a top line model or anything so I don't know if anything I wrote helps but if you want to save money then go for it. Oh and have heard that the goverment is going to drop the rebate down to $1000 but not sure when.

sly · 26-05-2008, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Night

Oh and have heard that the goverment is going to drop the rebate down to $1000 but not sure when.

This has been done to death in the LPG forum. There was no announcement in the budget that this was going to happen. Unless the government announces it, it's not going to happen.

Abacus · 26-05-2008, 07:51 AM

Regardless of your type of driving (city/country) you'll save around 40% of your fuel bill.

LPG normally costs around half the price of petrol. These days, it's more like 40-45% of the price of petrol, but this might be an anomoly, so to be conservative work on it being half the price of petrol.

Depending on the kind of LPG system you install (venturi vs injection), you'll use between 15-25% more LPG than petrol by volume - say 20% for the sake of this calculation.

So, 50% x 1.2 = 60%. Your fuel costs on LPG will be about 60% of your fuel costs on petrol.

So if you normally go through $5,000 of petrol each year, you will save about $2,000 per year if your run LPG.

Whether or not it's worthwhile for you depends on how much fuel you go through, and what your conversions costs are. A venturi system (around $2,700) after rebate will be about $700. An injected system (around $4,500) after rebate will be about $2,500. The injected systems give better performance, the venturi systems cost less and you get back the installion costs by way of fuel savings a lot sooner. Work out what's most important to you before you make your decision.

More Gas Newbie questions are answered in this thread:

lamborghinifans Gas Newbie Thread

Abacus · 26-05-2008, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Night

when highway driving the lpg mileage is pretty bad.

There's something wrong with your system then. Highway driving is where LPG is most efficient. You need to get your installation checked.

Night · 26-05-2008, 08:34 AM

Nothing wrong with my system, has been checked. I thought it was a bit strange myself but I put it down to having to use more throttle on the highway due to less power. sounds a bit strange but could also be a bit lead footed when overtaking. Just as a guide, I usually get around 400 klms for normal driving but 350 klms on the highway.

Yeah sly I know there was no announcement in the budget but it has been touted by Kevin Rudd that it might happen and as you know if the goverment decides to lower the rebate in a few months then they will even if it isn't proposed in the budget. Has happened in the past and will happen again.

scorpio39 · 26-05-2008, 10:41 AM

I found it difficult to believe that some posters were, saying LPG is more efficient around town.
Mine is 9 years old factory gas and never had the need to re-tune.
I agree with Abacus's comments 100%.

teabags2 · 26-05-2008, 01:28 PM

Night,
You should get nearly 600Km's out of a 66Lt tank with a mixer system on the open roed at 110Kmh.

Bob

Abacus · 26-05-2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Night

Yeah sly I know there was no announcement in the budget but it has been touted by Kevin Rudd that it might happen and as you know if the goverment decides to lower the rebate in a few months then they will even if it isn't proposed in the budget. Has happened in the past and will happen again.

Like sly said, been done to death in the LPG forum, it's here for at least next year, it was provided for in the budget, and its been funded to 2012.

The last of several threads here:

LPG Rebate Gone?

V8falcons · 26-05-2008, 02:29 PM

Ive just had MY SR wagon fitted with a AIROD LPG mixer system,so far the best tank full has got me 475ks (expressway only) to run out.
thats around 14ltr/100ks so its not brilliant
But today,it was in for 1000k check/setup and feels alot better to drive since(Low/mid range torque is back) and the mechanic said the settings were way out,so I may see better fuel economy as well.

$39 to fill 67ltrs,compared to $98 for fuel,Thinking of doing the Ghia as well now.

blueoval · 26-05-2008, 08:09 PM

I bought my car with a Parnell LPG system fitted, so my costs are ahead already.

I have just returned from a trip to Qld in the car an averaged 550-600km from a full tank of LPG.

What I did find in the country servo's was that the price of lpg increased a massive ammount over normal petrol. From 69c in the city to 90c in towns like Cobar and Narrabri. Normal unleaded prices jumped from its regular $1.55 to $1.69 in most towns.

It seems to me the country folk have noticed the amount of vehicles that use LPG moreso than petrol OR the cost of transport of LPG has risen substantially.

Either way, it was an eye opener for me.

InfernoSR · 26-05-2008, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueoval

I bought my car with a Parnell LPG system fitted, so my costs are ahead already.

I have just returned from a trip to Qld in the car an averaged 550-600km from a full tank of LPG.

What I did find in the country servo's was that the price of lpg increased a massive ammount over normal petrol. From 69c in the city to 90c in towns like Cobar and Narrabri. Normal unleaded prices jumped from its regular $1.55 to $1.69 in most towns.

It seems to me the country folk have noticed the amount of vehicles that use LPG moreso than petrol OR the cost of transport of LPG has risen substantially.

Either way, it was an eye opener for me.

Oh i know that feeling! i used to work in Narrabri... a few doors up from BP...

On a semi-recent trip from Bathurst to Geelong, i got about 550kms on a tank of LPG... and thats with a rather problematic mixer ring setup...

Night · 26-05-2008, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teabags2

Night,
You should get nearly 600Km's out of a 66Lt tank with a mixer system on the open roed at 110Kmh.

Bob

Wow I can't even get that on petrol and I'm not that lead footed. Can't believe how many Klms some of you guys are getting. I don't know much about lpg systems so I can't tell you what it is. I looked at the leds on the control unit and it is running lean which i guess it should but when I rev the engine it goes to rich. Does that sound right or does it need to be leaned of a bit more.

PS, hope you guys are right about the rebate scheme cause I plan on doing another car soon. Personally I don't trust anything goverments tell us and that scheme was brought in by the last goverment so it wouldn't supprise me if it changed but fingers crossed it doesn't.

FGII-XR6 · 26-05-2008, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodes-sh

just do it, mixer systems aren't all that bad. personally, for an au, i wouldn't go svi, they go well enough on mixer's anyway. same as always tho, keep the ignition system in good condition and they will be fine

I must dissagree there have had a mixer ring on my AU and swaped it for SVI and there is a huge difference SVI is money well spent

bodes-sh · 26-05-2008, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

I must dissagree there have had a mixer ring on my AU and swaped it for SVI and there is a huge difference SVI is money well spent

i know what you mean, but some people can't justify the extra $1000 or more to go svi instead of mixer when they, for the most part, go very well on them anyway. each to their own i guess

bodes-sh · 26-05-2008, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Night

Wow I can't even get that on petrol and I'm not that lead footed. Can't believe how many Klms some of you guys are getting. I don't know much about lpg systems so I can't tell you what it is. I looked at the leds on the control unit and it is running lean which i guess it should but when I rev the engine it goes to rich. Does that sound right or does it need to be leaned of a bit more.

PS, hope you guys are right about the rebate scheme cause I plan on doing another car soon. Personally I don't trust anything goverments tell us and that scheme was brought in by the last goverment so it wouldn't supprise me if it changed but fingers crossed it doesn't.

change your oxygen sensor, that will be what is causing a lot of the excess usage...in saying that, i barely get 500km to 68lt of lpg on the highway, but i do have a full exhaust system on it, and it does go pretty well....that is with a fair bit of spirited overtaking and getting to the speed limit too

JC · 26-05-2008, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Night

........

PS, hope you guys are right about the rebate scheme cause I plan on doing another car soon. Personally I don't trust anything goverments tell us and that scheme was brought in by the last goverment so it wouldn't supprise me if it changed but fingers crossed it doesn't.

There's no question about the rebate staying at this stage, but remember, you only get one bite of it every 3 years - so if you've done one recently, then you'll have to wait, unless you could put the next one in the missus' name.

teabags2 · 27-05-2008, 08:58 AM

Night,
I have had an EF and three AU's all on mixer ring setups of various brands. They have all been around 600Km's for 66 Lts on a country trip. Even the old EA was around that. Suggest you check your O2 senser. They are said to be only good for about 100,000Kms. Cost around $65 on ebay I have heard.

Bob

Night · 27-05-2008, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

There's no question about the rebate staying at this stage, but remember, you only get one bite of it every 3 years - so if you've done one recently, then you'll have to wait, unless you could put the next one in the missus' name.

Yeah this one was in the missus' name so the next ones going in mine. I'll look into that oxygen sensor though. I bought the car with 115 on the clock and it now has 140 so could the problem. I don't know if the previous owner changed it.
Cheers guys, sorry for hijacking the thread.