Training supplement Thread.

[4Vman]

Ok guys, its been a while since ive bothered with supplimentation beyond protein powders and a decent diet..
What's out there now for gaining/maintaining lean mass beyond decent regular diet which i understand well and have used to good effect before..
Pro-hormones?, tribulus? etc? (Legal of coarse, not anabolic steroids!)
Anything good? or are they all gimmicks.

[BPXR6T]

Novedex. Its an estrogen blocker/test enhancer. Also been on a stack involving luekic but didn't do much for me.

[Bossxr8]

Depends if you want legal stuff or not.

Legal stuff would consist of your basic stack of pre workout, post workout and protein powder suppliments.

The 2 best pre workout supps are probably Gaspari's Superpump 250 or BSN's No X plode. They contain creatine, caffeine and nitric oxide which is supposed to provide more energy and blood flow to the muscles.

Post workout helps recovery and are usually creatine based.

Protein powders you already know.

Add a multivitamin and maybe some fish oil which is good for your joints.


I've heard of guys using H drol and they have imported it from the US and its passed customs inspection but it can be real bad on your liver, so weigh up the risks. Have a look at the Bodybuilding.com forums. More info then you could poke a stick at, including the stuff of questionable legality.

[4Vman]

I spent allot of time training and competing in the late 80's and 90's so i know all about the banned stuff which is obviously out...
These days i'm interested in those pro hormones like the Gaspari range (Novedex) which seems to sellout like hotcakes, and if they really work?

[CAMS290]

GNC has some good stuff, a couple of mates buy their protein powders and amino stuff from them and swear buy them
http://www.gnclivewell.com.au/Home.aspx

[RATT]

Originally Posted by BPXR6T

Novedex. Its an estrogen blocker/test enhancer. Also been on a stack involving luekic but didn't do much for me.

Sounds interesting. Is this something that's available in regular supplement stores?
I haven't gone beyond the basic Protein a couple of times a day as well as a decent diet. Tried Tribulus but it's effectiveness was less each time I went through a "cycle".

[BPXR6T]

Originally Posted by RATT

Sounds interesting. Is this something that's available in regular supplement stores?
I haven't gone beyond the basic Protein a couple of times a day as well as a decent diet. Tried Tribulus but it's effectiveness was less each time I went through a "cycle".

Yeah its from gaspari. Health stores or ebay. There's usually a warning attached to it saying not to take it if your likely to get drug testing. Also women are prohibited for obvious reasons. I had no side effects whilst taking it other than increased sex drive. Although some say it kills there sex drive so who knows. A lot of guys take it after a cycle of test to help prevent b itch tits.

The only suppliment I probably would never take again is hydroxycut hardcore. On the second cycle at max dosage I found I was getting chest pain. Also stopped me sleeping and made me aggresive. Probably aggressive because of no sleep. From memory hydroxycut is basically a high dosage caffine pill that makes you p!ss like theres no tomorrow. Shed excess water fast.

Something else I've taken in the past was luekic which is a so called anabolic compound. Jury is still out on that. Probably didn't take it long enough to tell if it made a difference. I recall it was harsh on the gut too with stomach cramps common. The pills are the size of horse tablets and you need to take 6/day.

[Hillbilly F Truck]

My opinion, most are all useless. Like you 4vman have a history with the less than legal side of things. I have read plenty of articles talking about natural hormone boosters which said do absolutely nothing. It's a give away when the label says 'may' do etc....Try a different training approach, or get back on the gear. Either way you're just raising testosterone levels, (thats assuming the 'natural' one works to a high level as claimed) so the adverse effects on the body will be the same. The only difference being you're doing it artificially with a drug instead of trying to get your body to produce excess testosterone itself. By the way, people i am in no way suggesting anyone should use illegal drugs.

[Electric XY]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I spent allot of time training and competing in the late 80's and 90's so i know all about the banned stuff which is obviously out...
These days i'm interested in those pro hormones like the Gaspari range (Novedex) which seems to sellout like hotcakes, and if they really work?

you never cease to amaze me.

[Hillbilly F Truck]

Try this training advice link 4Vman. I have noticed vast improvements in strength and size.http://www.treelight.com/health/exer...rTraining.html

[gcg2503]

i was heavily into bodybuilding throughout the 90s. alas, i still train 5 times a week but not carrying the muscle size i did in my 20s.....still as strong though - go figure!

Anyway, what i find quite amusing is that Gaspari's product is called Novedex

Very similar in name and pronounciation to another product (of the anabolic variety) called Novaldex which is used to decrease estrogen levels and reduce gynaecomastia (medical name for t!ts)

another thing which amuses me is the way people refer to using their supplements as cycles...hilarious

a cycle as far as i know is when you are on a 4-6 week period of "assistance"

the prevalence of people on the gear in todays day and age is out of control.

by the by, i used BSN NO-XpLODE and found it to be quite helpful. Would give a mean pump

[Ives]

BSN NO-xplode is pretty good.

[Hillbilly F Truck]

Originally Posted by gcg2503

i was heavily into bodybuilding throughout the 90s. alas, i still train 5 times a week but not carrying the muscle size i did in my 20s.....still as strong though - go figure!

Anyway, what i find quite amusing is that Gaspari's product is called Novedex

Very similar in name and pronounciation to another product (of the anabolic variety) called Novaldex which is used to decrease estrogen levels and reduce gynaecomastia (medical name for t!ts)

another thing which amuses me is the way people refer to using their supplements as cycles...hilarious

a cycle as far as i know is when you are on a 4-6 week period of "assistance"

the prevalence of people on the gear in todays day and age is out of control.

by the by, i used BSN NO-XpLODE and found it to be quite helpful. Would give a mean pump

You're right They try to make it sound like you're doing a course of sus 250, deca and d-bol. In fact some American magazines have those natural tabs in little pill bottles with pics of farm animals on them trying to appear like the vet drugs so many people used earlier on in the game. I think if you use too many supplements you are probably doing yourself more damage than with the illegal drugs. Your poor kidney and liver have got to filter the natural pro hormones, testosterone boosters, creatine, diet pills like hydroxycut, protein powders, multi vitamins and probably fish oil and glucosamine for the joints. Put that together with all the food and you'd probably beat the roid pumper to the dialisis machine. Protein powder is good if your diet is lacking or as post workout, and creatine for some who swear by it and some don't. But those last two would be the only two i would bother with. And yeah, the number of young people on the gear these days is huge.

[Stav]

Back in the 90's I lost around 20 kgs of fat and did weights religiously 5 days a week.. Never got big but got the v shape and much improved structure. The biggest improvement was my strength had improved dramatically.
I have read sport supplement review by Bill Philips from EAS and it covers alot of supplements and how they work. Tribulus terestis did raise testosterone but the results of experiments showed it increased sex drive only.

Personally I used creatine monohydrate ,whey protein,caffeine and a good multivitamin. The result of the creatine was a better pump from the workout and I found that I would be able to sprint much faster .Another effect form creatine monohydrate was the abiltiy to push more reps out.This was not a good thing because it would lead tp overtrainnng and sore joints for me.
The biggest hurdle for my bodybuilding days was how many calories to cut to retain muscle mass without starving the muscles. I gave it all away a long tim ago as the perfect me was a goal that never stopped much like modifying a car.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Stav

I gave it all away a long tim ago as the perfect me was a goal that never stopped much like modifying a car.

me too Stav :

[S3SR]

ive used Hydroxycut Hardcore, seemed useless until the weight (fat) dropped off like someone sucked it out..... it hit its peak after about 7kgs and stopped

HGH - human growth hormone, it was just arginine and lysine spose to be fat metabolisers or similar... good for sperm count apparently especially as a whole if you know what i mean but makes you go to the toilet alot and give birth to small children - also helped to increase recovery times and even maybe helped to workout longer

HGH - this time in one of those bottles like you get some poisons, where you squeeze it into the small resovoir then serve it.... tastes like someone threw it up, works pretty much instantly costs more than petrol has bad reactions to me ill never use it again

Protein Powder- Redback brand about 5kgs off it
a drink in the morning and afternoon in and around working out, weights, boxing, skipping, muscle packed on and recovery time increased but FAT stayed
DOES NOT MAKE A GOOD CAKE - makes it rock hard if anything
there is also 50 different types of producing protein each has their benefits

Creatine - just keeps you working out longer and harder most brands are good

Im yet to try the "illegal" stuff anabolic steriods.... in small doses see what all the fuss is about
or for those that played GTA IV bullshark testosterone

ive tried alot of them and my overall verdict is its 92% sugar, except for the 2nd HGH i tried, but then again i have got VERY quick results in muscle mass in my upper body though that could be the 200% ive put into workouts

im gonna try the natural approach NO supplements, just a Tuna fish diet, alot of cardio and resistance training or both, keep fluids up (water only) and lots of sleep (recovery breaks), $100 says i get better results.... might even get back into my "spartan workout" got the course in my back yard

1 good thing to come from supplements you paid so much $$ for them, it forces you to actually get out and exercise..

ALWAYS do your research, find out the active ingredients and google them, see what each does, NEVER overdose not good for anything besides making the companies alot of $$, and ALWAYS read the instructions and ASK if you dont know, especially if your going to mix drugs

[eficoupe]

This is where I play devils advocate and inform you that steriods are not actually illegal provided you have a legitimate script from a doctor for them. The same as any other prescription medication. What do you think doctors use when people have muscle wastage from car accidents etc.

Oh and the hydroxicuts you can buy here are not worth the bottle they come in. They were originally designed around the use of ephadrine asprine and caffeine but then the ephadrine became illegal. (Except in Canada) without that key element the rest is useless other than as a placebo.

[Hillbilly F Truck]

Yep we don't get the original recipe here.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by eficoupe

This is where I play devils advocate and inform you that steriods are not actually illegal provided you have a legitimate script from a doctor for them. The same as any other prescription medication. What do you think doctors use when people have muscle wastage from car accidents etc.

Oh and the hydroxicuts you can buy here are not worth the bottle they come in. They were originally designed around the use of ephadrine asprine and caffeine but then the ephadrine became illegal. (Except in Canada) without that key element the rest is useless other than as a placebo.

That's true, steroids are still prescribed all the time.. they're only banned for use in level 1 sport or illegal to posses/use without a prescription.
The old US hydroxycut used the good old E.C.A stack.. Ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin.

[Clint Eastwood]

Just wondering if you more experienced guy's train daily or 3-4 times a week?

I have heard that for better results a 48-72 hour recovery period will have better results and decrease the chances of injury.

Any advice/opinions on what works better would be appreciated.

Cheers Tom.

[JMO]

I'm currently taking protein after my workouts, trying to build muscle (more muscle=more energy needed=less fat stored. That's the theory anyway). Basically a workout will involve cardio and weights. My main aim is to drop some weight and gain some muscle.

Keeping that in mind, should I be taking protein before a workout? Would creatine be useful to me?

[Stav]

Originally Posted by JMO

I'm currently taking protein after my workouts, trying to build muscle (more muscle=more energy needed=less fat stored. That's the theory anyway). Basically a workout will involve cardio and weights. My main aim is to drop some weight and gain some muscle.

Keeping that in mind, should I be taking protein before a workout? Would creatine be useful to me?

I have read many times that straight after your workout that is the best time to get some very bioavailable protein into your system.It is said that your muscles are craving the nutrients/protein for 2 hours..

[mickyyyy]

Some good info here ppl, keep it coming

Ive done alot of different things with training and what i found is alot comes down 2 food and how ur body breaks it down and uses it. Most ppl dont even figure out how 2 feed them selves properly as some ppl eat big each meal but there body dosent break it down well and put on abit of fat.

Theres so much info but u have 2 try different things and see what ur body likes and then when u plato u have a little change and u will start progressing again.

[S3SR]

Originally Posted by Clint Eastwood

Just wondering if you more experienced guy's train daily or 3-4 times a week?

I have heard that for better results a 48-72 hour recovery period will have better results and decrease the chances of injury.

everyone is different and will recover differently, i find theres no point me even lifting weights if i dont feel the burn and i also avoid light weights for toning as it does nothing for me....

im doing about 20kgs each arm and did about 60reps non stop only to not be able to move them for days... so ive increased weight and decreased reps 30kgs 20reps 15sec break 10 reps 10 secs, etc and stretch, recovery time was almost over night for me after i stretched and warmed down also having a masseuse at work means i can recovery every 2nd day

recovery wise i work 5 days, so i workout heavily on those days (boxing, sometimes MMA, skipping, weights and situps and recently pilates (no i havent changed sides its good for flexibility) and xbox/recover on my days off keeping my protein intake up (fish) and heaps of water almost 4L a day its hot in townsville
also means i can shop for new clothes with bigger sleaves, i only have everlast training clothes that fit

and havent had supplements in 1 month now

dont know if that heaps your Q but recovery is how you deal with it, after a while you will recover faster and if you want supplements creatine will help

[Clint Eastwood]

Originally Posted by S3SR

everyone is different and will recover differently, i find theres no point me even lifting weights if i dont feel the burn and i also avoid light weights for toning as it does nothing for me....

im doing about 20kgs each arm and did about 60reps non stop only to not be able to move them for days... so ive increased weight and decreased reps 30kgs 20reps 15sec break 10 reps 10 secs, etc and stretch, recovery time was almost over night for me after i stretched and warmed down also having a masseuse at work means i can recovery every 2nd day

recovery wise i work 5 days, so i workout heavily on those days (boxing, sometimes MMA, skipping, weights and situps and recently pilates (no i havent changed sides its good for flexibility) and xbox/recover on my days off keeping my protein intake up (fish) and heaps of water almost 4L a day its hot in townsville
also means i can shop for new clothes with bigger sleaves, i only have everlast training clothes that fit

and havent had supplements in 1 month now

dont know if that heaps your Q but recovery is how you deal with it, after a while you will recover faster and if you want supplements creatine will help

Cheers for your detailed response mate,

I think I have already worked out the dietry side of things, I am just concerned about overtraining my upper body and doing more harm then good.

I am also going to start taking protein powder,will this increase my muscle recovery?

Cheers

[DDXR6T]

I understand this is a thread about different types of supplements. But, which powders are people using. Anything recommended?

I'm currently on Musashi 'Bulk', seems to be pretty good.

[eficoupe]

Originally Posted by Clint Eastwood

Just wondering if you more experienced guy's train daily or 3-4 times a week?

I have heard that for better results a 48-72 hour recovery period will have better results and decrease the chances of injury.

Any advice/opinions on what works better would be appreciated.

Cheers Tom.

I have been training seriously for quite a while now and have gone from 72kg to 110kg lean. Oh and I'm 183cm or 6' tall.

I usually hit the gym 6 days a week with one days total rest from weights. the key for me is to not train a muscle group that is still sore so to that extent there is always a little flexibility in how often I'll hit each muscle group per week. I would never train any muscle group more than twice a week though and certainly not without at least 2 days off in between. Delayed onset muscle soreness (the pain you get after training hard) doesn't peak until the second day after a workout so there is no way your muscles can recover quicker than that - unless you aren't really hitting it hard enough.

As for what information to listen to and what to ignore - I did a Sports Science Degree and now work a very science based industry so I always go with the theory that if someone can't back up the info with a legit study or journal artical then it was probably just marketing rubbish from some musclemag and therefore not worth paying a lot of attention to. There are some interesting things to get from those mags like ideas for excersises etc but take the rest of the info with a pinch of salt.

If you ever need info on suppliments etc of any kind feel free to PM me.

Good luck.

[Clint Eastwood]

Thanks for all the advice mate,sounds like you really know your stuff, I will pm you in the future if I need any tips.

Cheers.

[gcg2503]

Originally Posted by eficoupe

I have been training seriously for quite a while now and have gone from 72kg to 110kg lean. Oh and I'm 183cm or 6' tall.

I usually hit the gym 6 days a week with one days total rest from weights. the key for me is to not train a muscle group that is still sore so to that extent there is always a little flexibility in how often I'll hit each muscle group per week. I would never train any muscle group more than twice a week though and certainly not without at least 2 days off in between. Delayed onset muscle soreness (the pain you get after training hard) doesn't peak until the second day after a workout so there is no way your muscles can recover quicker than that - unless you aren't really hitting it hard enough.

As for what information to listen to and what to ignore - I did a Sports Science Degree and now work a very science based industry so I always go with the theory that if someone can't back up the info with a legit study or journal artical then it was probably just marketing rubbish from some musclemag and therefore not worth paying a lot of attention to. There are some interesting things to get from those mags like ideas for excersises etc but take the rest of the info with a pinch of salt.

If you ever need info on suppliments etc of any kind feel free to PM me.

Good luck.

with all due respect there aren't many people, if any, at that height / weight (whilst staying lean) without "assistance"

thats my observation after 18 yrs weight training in many gyms in various countries

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by gcg2503

with all due respect there aren't many people, if any, at that height / weight (whilst staying lean) without "assistance"

thats my observation after 18 yrs weight training in many gyms in various countries

Yes.. Id be VERY interested to know how you go from 72KG's to 110kg's lean naturally...