Australian Drivers Are Ignoring LPG

[mcnews]

TMR Poll Confirms VFACTS Results – Australian Drivers Are Ignoring LPG

VFACTS RESULTS for July, and a poll conducted over the same month by leading Australian Automotive news site, The Motor Report, confirms that measures to get more Australians into LPG vehicles are failing.

In the context of a total national vehicle market down just 10.3 percent in July 2009 compared to July 2008, and down 15.3 percent year-to-date (YTD), sales of new LPG vehicles to private buyers are down 81.8 percent for the month and down 67.2 percent YTD.

“July saw just 14 total sales by private buyers of LPG-dedicated passenger vehicles, struggling to a paltry 118 total sales (private buyers, passenger vehicles) for 2009 YTD. This is an astonishingly poor performance,” The Motor Report Director Tim O’Brien said.

“Fleet sales, though better are similarly poor, managing 549 sales for the month, down 26.6 percent compared to July 2008.

“Given the $2000 Government cash rebate for purchasers of new cars with factory-fitted LPG systems, and given the strong upward movement in the price of petrol, these results are surprising.

“More to the point, they indicate the depth of the image-problem for LPG as an alternative fuel. This is a failure by the industry. Motorists are clearly not motivated by price alone in choosing at which bowser they fill their cars up.

"As a previous Motor Report poll showed (November 2008), many motorists regard LPG as an inferior alternative fuel,” Mr O’Brien said.
In the recent Motor Report poll, when responding to the question: If Unleaded Petrol hits $1.50 a litre, which of the following best describes your likely response,40 percent of poll respondents selected the response that they will make “no change to my car choice nor driving habits”.

Only 12.0 percent responded that they “will convert to LPG (or purchase an LPG vehicle)” if unleaded petrol hits $1.50 a litre, while 31 percent responded that their next car will be a diesel.

“While Australian motorists are now readily embracing diesel as an alternative to petrol, LPG seems to have simply missed the boat.

“For a locally produced fuel that Australia holds in plentiful supply, burns cleaner than petrol, offers such savings at the pump, and with both Ford and Holden offering LPG-dedicated vehicles, the underperformance of this sales segment should be alarming both the industry and the Rudd Government,” Mr O’Brien said.

About The Motor Report Poll:

Conducted over the month of July, with a total of 972 respondents.

If Unleaded Petrol hits $1.50 a litre, which of the following best describes your likely response:

* My next car will be a smaller petrol-engined (or hybrid) fuel miser (17.0%)
* My next car will be a diesel (31.0%)
* I will convert to LPG (or purchase an LPG vehicle) (12.0%)
* I will make no change to my car choice nor driving habits (40.0%)

[pmpdau]

Hmmmm I'm pretty surprised that there is more people willing to go to diesel than convert to LPG, especially with all the developments in the Liquid Injection systems.

Not surprised however that most drivers will stay with petrol. $1.50 really isnt that big of a jump from 1.25-1.37 a litre at the moment

[mcnews]

The general crapness of all the early LPG systems no doubt has killed it a bit. Also that still most conversions see a lot more LPG used than petrol effectively negating a lot of the price advantage. And of course the fact that there are so many incredibly fuel efficient cars on the market. Personally, I think LPG is on the way out.

[Mr Hardware]

The public are fools. That's ok, more LPG for me.

The main reason why so many of the public shun LPG are the four main myths:
It'll use twice as much LPG as petrol, meaning no savings
It'll explode
It'll sap my power to a point where i no longer enjoy driving
The payback period is almost forever

[Wretched]

isn't there also a government excise going to put on LPG within a year or two?

[Mr Hardware]

Originally Posted by www.ausindustry.gov.au

LPG is currently excise free but it will become subject to excise in the future. No excise will be applied to LPG until 1 July 2011. The full rate of excise to apply to Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG) used in vehicles will be 12.5 cents per litre. This rate will apply from 1 July 2015.
The planned excise rates for LPG are as follows:
1 July 2011 2.5 cpl
1 July 2012 5.0 cpl
1 July 2013 7.5 cpl
1 July 2014 10.0 cpl
1 July 2015 12.5 cpl

5char

[sarrge2001]

Hardly see any LPG vehicles here in Darwin (in comparison to other states).

Mind you, with LPG at 95c per litre, i'm not surprised.

[Bluehoon]

Or perhaps the case is poeple want cars that aren't available in LPG?

XR6T on LILPG or Coyote GT on LILPG would see me driving one instantly!

[FalconXR6]

The day Ford produce an XR8 and / or XR6T on gas making decent power and torque is the day I will be happy to change to gas as gas is produced here in Australia, it's cheap and it's arguably "greener" than petrol and diesel.

Would never own a diesel and can't understand (actually, yes I can...) why Joe Public is seeing it as the new wonder fuel.

The problem with LPG is that there isn't anything appealing about it's outputs (compared to petrol) and the model variants that use it...in my opinion, of course...

[Road_Warrior]

The new generation systems that are available now have put a big dent in the power loss/excess consumption argument. But yes, one of the problems could be the lack of vehicle range from the factory with LPG.

With the new liquid injection system coming out from Ford soon, I wonder if they'll make it available across the Falcon range, or whether it will still be in the fleet hack realms.

[Iggypoppin']

One thing that steered me away from LPG is after riding in a cab, how bad the cabin smelled of gas, the horrible sucky wheezy feeling the motor gave out, and just how cheap the car felt. I know it's not the best example, but I also feel gas is a bit of a cop out. Unless it's LI it's not for me. And it smells.

[Mr Hardware]

Originally Posted by NJXR6

One thing that steered me away from LPG is after riding in a cab, how bad the cabin smelled of gas, the horrible sucky wheezy feeling the motor gave out, and just how cheap the car felt. I know it's not the best example, but I also feel gas is a bit of a cop out. Unless it's LI it's not for me. And it smells.

One time i went in a cab that had really noisy wheel bearings. They rumbled and sqawked and made the ride terrible. Put me off wheel bearings for life.

What a stupid comment.

[Chilla]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

5char

If the federal government were fair dinkum about converting OZ drivers to lpg then the pump price would be 15cents/litre and they would cough up more than their current offers of $2000 subsidy on new vehicles and $1750 on second hand, to convert. Charity begins at home Mr. Rudd. If we can afford to import lpg for the low prices we currently are, whats stopping us selling it here for a realistic price. Wake up Australia!

[Fairlane]

Good, I hope they all ignore LPG. All the more for me, and less waiting for the 1 bowser.

[vztrt]

I remember back in 06 when petrol started rising. LPG cars build increased a fair bit, at one stage to the point where there was a worry that there wouldn't be enough time to get the tank into the vehicle.

I know one problem with the e-gas is the fact that you lose boot space (same issue with after market conversions), if ford can get the spare wheel to a spot where it doesn't cause issues in the boot, coupled with the L.I system then it should have more people considering it.

[PoweredByCNG]

Yet another example of how Australian businesses are behind the eight-ball. Like I have said numerous times, to sway the public towards LPG, the manufacturers have to demonstrate that the overall experience of ownership is no different from owning a petrol-only vehicle (e.g. power, economy, reliability, smoothness, practicality). Currently, the only Australian car that comes remotely close to achieving this is the dual fuel Commodore. Conversion centres also do NOTHING to convince 'Joe Public' - there are too many installers who are incompetent or simply DO NOT CARE about the quality of their services. It is these installers that drag the respected installers down to a low level.

The tables WILL turn when Ford release their Liquid Injection E-gas engine. I'm itching to see the final power/torque/consumption figures, as I understand that they are practically on a par with the figures obtainable from the existing petrol engine.

Regards,
Dave

[4Vman]

LPG has an "anti performance" stigma, you wont overcome that easily or over night.
The installation and upfront costs of the L.I kits are frightening...
The savings are significant, on a Falcon averaging 30,000 k's per year mostly city use the costs are about:

Petrol @9.5l/100k's @$1.35/l = $3847 PA
LPG @16l/100k's @$.045/l = $2160 PA

A saving of $1687 per year... i don't particularly want the usual suspects challenging my consumption figures because i know they're accurate because i run a couple of each in a fleet situation.

The performance difference between petrol and gas though is significant too...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

The public are fools. That's ok, more LPG for me.

The main reason why so many of the public shun LPG are the four main myths:
It'll use twice as much LPG as petrol, meaning no savings
It'll explode
It'll sap my power to a point where i no longer enjoy driving
The payback period is almost forever

5) Most of the people who are constantly babbling on about the glory of LPG are one eyed fixated zealots who make PETA or Sea Shepard activists look broad minded and tolarent.

Often myths are actually truths that are being denied by agenda.....

[Mark s]

My mother in law was looking for a car to replace her VL. She is in her 60's not much cash and on a pension.

We found a EF Gli on LPG, with 8 months rego for $2300 as a cheap get around car. We figured as it was on LPG it would be really cheap motoring for her. We checked the car out and it was in clean condition, few shopping trolley dings, minor scratches in the paint but was a good honest car with under 200,000 k's and everything looked good. What do you expect for $2300 a Rolls Royce?

Before we went to look at the car, it was it has LPG, it's dangerous, blah, blah, blah. Yep she has NFI.

We explained to her that we have a EF on LPG, had no issues with it and it costs sweet bugger all to fill up.

Well she complained about it and ended up falling in love with a VP S pack, with HSV wheels, just out of rego for $3500 and she was happy, my wife was ready to kill her.

Since then she does not drive her VP very much due to the cost of petrol.

I see my wifes face when she rings up and complains about the cost of petrol and being unable to drive down to Sydney to visit people.

Still it has it upsides, We dont get visits from her nowdays. So I guess LPG could be deemed as a negitive.

Still our EF Fairmont runs like charm, saves me around $50 odd bucks a week in fuel costs, and thats money better off in our pocket and a extra 200 a month off our mortage. :

I find it amazing that people whinge about not being able to pay of a mortage, running costs in getting to work because petrol is so expensive and yet they cant look at LPG as a very viable option. I save my money and have extra at the end of each month. So what do I care. I laugh all the way to the bank.


If Cabbies are using it and throw 800,000 + k's on a car then something must be ok with it.

Maybe it is just Falcon cabs on LPG that can do this :hihi:

__________________________________________________ ________________

UPDATES
Just to add with comsumption figures

These are my own figures, take them as you want.

EF Fairmont and I drive it pretty sedate. North Western Sydney - CBD just out of peak times as I am a shift worker.

68 litre petrol - I would get around 530 from a tank with around 8 - 10 odd litres left. Worked out at 11.32 litres per 100 k's.

80 litre LPG - 68 usable litres. 13.8 to 14.2 litres per 100 k's.

I filled up last night and I have to do a extra trip up the mountain from the Gym. 423 k's and took 62 litres to fill. this worked out a little higer than normal at 14.66 litres per 100 k's.

Still I drive pretty sedate and the EF is not stop light fang machine.

4Vman is also correct there is a different in performance in the older gas ring systems. Still If I want performance I will ride my Blackbird to work.


Cheers
Mark

[PoweredByCNG]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Petrol @9.5l/100k's @$1.35/l = $3847 PA

No offence, but you will NEVER those figures from city driving out of a Falcon. You'd be lucky to get under 13L/100km in the city, and that's with sedate, careful driving.

Regards,
Dave

[DJR-351]

The only reason i have not gone gas is the lack of availability out side most metro areas, get out in the outback and most servos dont carry it, or have run out and waiting on the delivery truck....

The gov needs to start pushing it to be available throughout aust, not just in the population areas, i dont know about most people but i dont spend all my time in suburbia and if i knew i could drive from Bris to Broome, through the centre of Aust, and be able to get it when i needed it, i would convert to gas in a heartbeat, its just to hit and miss at the moment....

Go up to the NW of Aust for a couple of weeks and see how much of this stuff we ship overseas, its mind boggling...

[gtfpv]

all i can say is . thank god people dont like it . that keeps the price down for me .
ohh by the way LPG SUX everyone , dont convert.

[Mr Hardware]

Originally Posted by 4vman

Petrol @9.5l/100k's @$1.35/l = $3847 PA
LPG @12l/100k's @$.045/l = $1620 PA

A saving of $2227 per year...

Fixed for you

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Fixed for you

12l/100k's...... what did i say???? Did you READ my post??? i get 16l/100k's on gas, end of story, and every other gas powered Falcon i know of get similar figures.

[PoweredByCNG]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Fixed for you

No... I meant 9.5L/100km petrol figures. More like 13-14L/100km in full on city driving at least.

The E-gas ADR urban consumption figure is 20.1L/100km. The ADR urban consumption figure for the petrol engine is 14.5L/100km.

Regards,
Dave

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Yet another example of how Australian businesses are behind the eight-ball. Like I have said numerous times, to sway the public towards LPG, the manufacturers have to demonstrate that the overall experience of ownership is no different from owning a petrol-only vehicle (e.g. power, economy, reliability, smoothness, practicality). Currently, the only Australian car that comes remotely close to achieving this is the dual fuel Commodore. Conversion centres also do NOTHING to convince 'Joe Public' - there are too many installers who are incompetent or simply DO NOT CARE about the quality of their services. It is these installers that drag the respected installers down to a low level.

The tables WILL turn when Ford release their Liquid Injection E-gas engine. I'm itching to see the final power/torque/consumption figures, as I understand that they are practically on a par with the figures obtainable from the existing petrol engine.

Regards,
Dave

Thanks Dave

[FalconXR6]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

all i can say is . thank god people dont like it . that keeps the price down for me .
ohh by the way LPG SUX everyone , dont convert.

You do realise that if it were a more widely used fuel there would be greater demand for it.
Therefore petrol outlets would have more incentive to discount LPG - therefore making it cheaper...

[Ducati888]

I've done 60,000 k's in my V6 AWD Verada on LPG, after converting it in Sept 07. It gets the same fuel economy on both LPG & Petrol (which isn't that good - it's a heavy car). I get 400km out of 65 litres of gas. It has enough power. It's not a hot rod. It runs beautifully on the old vapour system and has never backfired once. I do regularly have it tuned and maintained though.

The real difference comes when I'm towing. 22L/100K with LPG & 17L/100K with petrol. Normal driving gives me 12 to 13L/100K out of both petrol & LPG. I can get under 10L/100K on a highway run, which isn't great, but hell, it only costs me $30 per week in fuel to run so who cares.

Most people do not purchase cars based on performance so I can't figure out why people are afraid of LPG in most garden variety models. Then again, I live by the credo that 70% of the population are cretins, so I suppose that explains it.

Regardless of their horsepower, most cars are just driven to work each day, so a 20% loss on a 300KW car isn't that big a deal, is it?

I went to trade the Verada in June, and the dealer told me that a V6 on LPG is not a selling point, in fact its seen as a bad thing on the lot (so he said). I decided to keep it - it's a great car.

By the way, the Fed grant is/was only $1000 on new vehicles fitted with LPG. It was $2000 for retro fits to older cars.

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

Or perhaps the case is poeple want cars that aren't available in LPG?

XR6T on LILPG or Coyote GT on LILPG would see me driving one instantly!

Bingo. That's me too.


Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by flappist

5) Most of the people who are constantly babbling on about the glory of LPG are one eyed fixated zealots who make PETA or Sea Shepard activists look broad minded and tolarent.

Often myths are actually truths that are being denied by agenda.....

Oh dear, there's a passionate Nexus magazine reading conspiracy theorist in our midst.

Man, they did land on the moon, how many more people does Buzz Aldrin have to punch out to prove it?


Lukeyson