Where would i stand legally?

[Landau Stable]

Sorry if this is in the wrond section. Mods, pleae move it if there is a better category.

So the story goes like this:
In 2003, i was given a van by someone i am no longer freinds with. It was bought as a job lot with 2 other cars, and i took the van immediately. There was no bill of sale given to me. The other 2 cars stayed in his possession and have since been sold. I have a photo of the van lined up with the rest of my cars, and in my possession. The photo is dated within 2 weeks of me getting it. I have since heard from others who know him, that he is making noise about wanting the van back. I have stored the van at my cost ever since, and i have never had a phone call or written request etc, to return the van. It's now 2010, and i wish to restore the van and sell it. I went to the cop shop and told the lady the story, and she said there is no way he can claim it as stolen, since he knows that i have the van, and has left it for 7 years. She said the most he could do is try to take me to court as a civil matter, and even then, he would not stand a chance due to the length of time. So my question is, How do i register it without a bill of sale, and is there any way at all he could legally take it off me after i restore it? I know that morally he has no right, but that doesn't always translate to legal rights. If you have any experience or advice, please let me know.

[geckoGT]

Best advice, get some real legal advice. Is it registered in your name now?

[Landau Stable]

It was bought unregistered, given to me unregistered, and i have never registered it myself. Would a stat declaration be enough for the RTA?

[Scott]

Here in QLD and in the ACT when I was there, I found they really weren't too fussed on proof of ownership, particularly if the value is low. I think they take the approach that they will worry about it if contested.

Call your transport dept and tell them you have a van with no receipt for ownership and ask them what you should do. They will probably have a form or ask you to bring a witnessed stat dec for proof.

I side with the cops - on that length of time there is a clear continuance and it wouldn't be worth the blokes effort to try and get it back, particularly when you demonstrate that you have cared for and stored the car for 7 years and are more than happy to invoice him for your troubles.

Call the RTA, this should be a simple fix. Good luck.

[fmc351]

If im reading it right, the guy bought 3 cars, and gave one to you as a gift?
Or you bought 3 leaving 2 at his place which you or he sold, and you took one immediately?

Leaving out things like Statute of Limitations etc as it wont get that far I dont think. 7 yrs he hasnt paid a dollar to storage, Id say at best he has abandoned the car. Let him try, you dont need to worry about it IMO. It will cost him $$$ to get advice and start a proceeding. At which point, the costs of storage (I assume from the words 'at your expense') means youre paying to store it, will sink any argument against your claim. Why would you pay to store his car for years? Alternatively, why would you store his car at your house if he has room to store it at his own place?

Does he have a receipt saying he bought it? Id doubt that after that many years, but you never know some people are hoarders. If he is holding a receipt that says he bought it, that doesnt mean he didnt sell or gift it to you. I think the lady at the cop shop has it right. I dont think he has a leg to stand on.

But as said, if youre worried about pouring in your dollars to fix it, seek legal advice. Theres enough free legal services around.

Stat decs are used in Qld to transfer an unreg car without a bill of sale, no idea in NSW but would assume something similar.

[Landau Stable]

fmc351- That is correct. he bought 3 cars, and gifted me the van on the spot. He does have a bill of sale from the wreckers that we got the cars from. The van was listed as being sold for $100 on his reciept.

[fmc351]

Honestly, i doubt he still has the receipt after 7 yrs. But like I said you never know with some hoarders. Dont think it will help him though as that doesnt mean he hasnt onsold/gifted it, it just means at some stage he owned it, which you ackowledged anyway.

Can I ask why he gave it to you?

To ease your own mind before pumping your hard earned into it, go to a legal centre and ask a practicing lawyer in NSW. But I doubt he could even get an action rolling. Its civil, and not free so he will need some bucks. As the police said, he cant use theft to make it easy for himself.

The only hope I see for him is a Gratuitous Bailment (he left it in your care, for him for free), and thats probably unlikely given the storage time, this may lead to abandonment and your right to dispose of as you see fit anyway. Abandonment is sketchy law though. He might also claim he sold it to you and you never paid him. Statute of Limitations would stop im claiming the debt, but Im unsure what happens to the property then. Its these issues that makes me say maybe talk to a practicing NSW solicitor.

I think he'll find he has abandoned the car though and has no claim to it.

Theres a few avenues of law. But in the end, he wont pursue it.

[mik]

i dunno about the legal stuff, but a friend was given a car without bill of sale or rego papers, he just got a stat dec and put it into his name no probs.

[Crazy Dazz]

There was a case many years ago:
A guy cleared out and left his missus, leaving a wreck in her yard. (IIRC it was a F100.)
After YEARS of the wreck just sitting there and rusting, she sold it to a bloke who restored it. Presumably at that time he had no trouble getting it registered.
Original owner sued, and the court gave him the car, on the grounds that his ex had no legal right to sell the car.
The biggest problem you have, is that because the car was a gift, you have no basis on which to infer a contract

Thing is, either this guy is a ******, or he’s not. If he is, then he will wait until you have restored it, and then sue. If not, then draw up a simple receipt, pay him the $100, and ask him to sign it. Tell him you NEED it to get the car registered.
You are far better off having any argument whilst the car is worth comparatively little. If he wants to argue, tell him that you will sue him for the storage costs, and under the “Bailed Goods Act” (or your state’s equivalent) you will take the car as PART payment of what he owes you.

[302 XC]

Personally i would seek the correct legal advice
Once you begin to ring a few legal eagles and check their 1/2 hourly and hourly consultation rate (defenately not cheap)
It will give you some ideas of any monies youll be up for to perhaps persue this further

It could/mite cost more to fight the for the car (wether right or wrong)than what the cars worth is ,in its now condition

To many IFs,Buts and Maybes
Seek the correct info from the correct people

[OLDFORDNUT]

mate you dont need legal advice,possession is nine tenths of the law and all you need is a stat dec signed by yourself in front of person at motor registry office at time of registration

[dave289]

Tell him if he pays the storage fee of $20 per week he can have it back.