Help with some diagnostics

[Velociraptor82]

Hey all,

I've been noticing an increasing thump in the car a few moments after ANY gear change, most notibly when changing from park and into reverse.

We all know how horrible the auto is in the Focus and certainlly, without a handbrake, I'm sure there has been an increase in wear from sitting on my steep driveway simply sitting in park. This has led me to believe that the issue was the Transmission.

However my car come back from the repairs the other day (finally got all the susspension repaired after an accident in Sydney) and apon returning the car to me, the repairer said to me that there was a knock in the CV Joints.

The repairer is obviolsy talking about the same knock I'm talking about and I doubt he has had a look at it anymore than I have. However I'm beginning to question which of the 2 the issue really is. Is it the Transmission or is it the CV Joints.

Althrough I've heard the terminology plenty of times before, I don't really know what the CV Joints are or what they do, so I was hoping that someone out there in forumland could help me identify this issue?

[melbzetec]

Here's my lamearse description.

A CV joint (Constant Velocity joint) is basically a flexible joint that sits between the drive shafts coming out of the transmission, and the drive shafts going to the front wheels. It's what allows the power to be transmitted to the front wheels, irrespective of the angle or position of the wheels.

If there was a solid driveshaft from the transmission to the driving wheel, then as the car turned and went up and down, then it would somehow have to swivel in either the transmission or at the wheel to allow for that movement.

Instead the CV joint does the work of accommodating that movement and allowing the power from the engine, through the transmission and driveshafts, to be constantly driving the front wheels.

Hopefully someone will give a better explanation

[entheos]

As above as far as a description of the CV joint - also often referred to as the CV Shaft.

The drive shaft needs something to be able to move as the suspension moves to allow power to still be applied to the wheels from the transmission.

You'll know if it's the CV joint gone if you turn hard right and slowly move in a circle and you hear a clicking/knocking sound, then your left is most likely gone, and vica versa, if you turn hard left and slowly move in a circle and you hear clicking/knocking then it's probably your right shaft. The right shaft in the Focus is the longer of the 2 and GENERALLY the first to go...

If you still hear no different noises then you may find it's something more. If it's purely on ghanging gears it could be the transmission, but then how long ago was teh transmission fluid replaced/transmission serviced etc? Did you take out an extended warranty whe you bought the car? If so, it'll be covered no matter what it is, if not, I would get it to a dealer or a local mechanic and get them to check it out.

[marg99]

It is also worth checking the rubber boots over the CV joint behind the front wheel. Look for cracks or tears. If you have any chances are dirt and other contaminants got in and stuffed up the joint. CV's should last 100,000 klm if the boots survive.
Also worth a check is that the front hub bearings remain tight. When they get loose you can rock the front wheel up & down when its jacked up.

[Velociraptor82]

Originally Posted by melbzetec

Here's my lamearse description.

A CV joint (Constant Velocity joint) is basically a flexible joint that sits between the drive shafts coming out of the transmission, and the drive shafts going to the front wheels. It's what allows the power to be transmitted to the front wheels, irrespective of the angle or position of the wheels.

If there was a solid driveshaft from the transmission to the driving wheel, then as the car turned and went up and down, then it would somehow have to swivel in either the transmission or at the wheel to allow for that movement.

Instead the CV joint does the work of accommodating that movement and allowing the power from the engine, through the transmission and driveshafts, to be constantly driving the front wheels.

Hopefully someone will give a better explanation

Actully, there is no need for a better explanation. I understood that perfectly.

So if my car is sitting on a hill in park and without a handbrake, then the CV joint would be taking a load as it is the bit in the middle between the wheels that want to turn and the transmission that does not.

My interrpertation of that is: if there is a fault with the CV joint, it would feel more like a constant vibration due to the fast rotaton of the axle rather than a knock that would only happen every gear change. So to me, it still sounds like transmission.

Thanks heaps Steve.

For those who would be interrested, I asked Ford how much it would cost for them swap my transmission for a manual and they quoted me $10,000. Obvioslty I'll be buying a half-cut or somehing and getting a transmission specialiat to swap it out for me, if I were to go down that path and certailly it sounds like I will be.

[Velociraptor82]

Originally Posted by entheos

If you still hear no different noises then you may find it's something more. If it's purely on ghanging gears it could be the transmission, but then how long ago was teh transmission fluid replaced/transmission serviced etc? Did you take out an extended warranty whe you bought the car? If so, it'll be covered no matter what it is, if not, I would get it to a dealer or a local mechanic and get them to check it out.

The car has only been serviced by Ford so no the transmisison has never had a service. The car has done just a bit over 80,000k so when should someone have the transmission serviced??

Unfortunally the cost of buying the car completely maxxed the bank account at the time and therefore I simply couldn't afford the extended warranty.

[NO2]

get in a car park and do circles on full lock, one way then another, and you will hear the click or knocking noise if it is CV joints.

[DZFord]

I would start with a transmission inspection and service.
If you are sure it's transmission, the next part of diagnostics is to work out whether its internal or external.

Eg. is it a worn part within the transmission itself, or has your transmission mount gone, causing excessive movement of the box when changing gear.

[bseos]

Originally Posted by marg99

..CV's should last 100,000 klm if the boots survive

So would ford charge you the price for new CV joints or to fix the bearings?

[entheos]

Originally Posted by Velociraptor82

The car has only been serviced by Ford so no the transmisison has never had a service. The car has done just a bit over 80,000k so when should someone have the transmission serviced??

Unfortunally the cost of buying the car completely maxxed the bank account at the time and therefore I simply couldn't afford the extended warranty.

Just because it's always been serviced by Ford doesn't make it a given that it's never been serviced. :P plenty of independant mechanics won't recommend it themselves. As far as how often to get it serviced? couldn't give you a definitive answer, as it depends on how it's driven, where it's driven, if you've been towing or not, doing lots of long driving or short trips.

Some recommend a fluid flush and change every 45-50k, others longer, others do it more regularly...I'll be doing it at the 60K service...may even do a full transmission service (including new filter, gaskets and o-rings) myself if I can figure out where all the bolts and holes are... :P

Originally Posted by bseos

So would ford charge you the price for new CV joints or to fix the bearings?

You'd buy a whole new driveshaft if the CV joint was cactus...you could probably take it to a CV specialist and they could replace just the joint, but Ford would replace the whole shaft...

[bseos]

Originally Posted by entheos

You'd buy a whole new driveshaft if the CV joint was cactus...you could probably take it to a CV specialist and they could replace just the joint, but Ford would replace the whole shaft...

Hmm problem is i think mine a effed up too.. Makes a clicking/knocking sound when turning clockwise.

Shouldn't FORD cover the part free of charge? I believe they had some lifetime warranty on non-wear-n-tear parts or something..

Cars only got 50,000 on the clock

[Velociraptor82]

Originally Posted by NO2

get in a car park and do circles on full lock, one way then another, and you will hear the click or knocking noise if it is CV joints.

I didn't do it so much in a car park but. I can confirm that there was no clicking noice while turning full lock left/right/fast/slow.

Evidence looks like it it still pointing at the Tranny. It's bad timing too beacsue since the transmission has been going downhill, I was planning on swapping to a manual after I get the Meteor on the road, so that I would still have a car to drive around in. However it looks like my plans are going to have be accelrated.

Need to start shopping around the wreakers for a manual focus.

[mondo_broady]

for those wondering about CV joints, on full lock it is an unmistakable sound. not sure about warranty if the boots are split?? that becomes a lack of maintenance thing perhaps?? i had to replace the left side shaft in a honda i had due to the CV joint farking up. was not cheap to do i can tell you!!

Velocir, if you have done the full lock turn in both directions and there is no noise, then it will not be the CV joint. what does the car do when you put it into gear whilst sitting with the handbrake on? is there tthe same loud knock? does the car seem to lurch?

[entheos]

Originally Posted by bseos

Hmm problem is i think mine a effed up too.. Makes a clicking/knocking sound when turning clockwise.

Shouldn't FORD cover the part free of charge? I believe they had some lifetime warranty on non-wear-n-tear parts or something..

Cars only got 50,000 on the clock

FORD will cover it if it's within the warranty period or KMS, whichever expires first. PM me your VIN and I can check your warranty status if you'd like?

If, for example, your car is 14 months old but you've done 120,000kms then you are out of warranty, likewise, if your car has only done 25,000kms but it's 3.5 years old, it's out of warranty....if it's just outside warranty then ford may cover it IF you have an impeccable FORD service history..not another mechanic, but servicing at a FORD dealer, but that's a BIG IF...not guaranteed. It's a loyalty thing... Like I said, PM me your VIN and I can check your warranty status if you'd like. but it's not a LIFETIME warranty on any part. The warranty is generally on most Ford Vehicles, 3 years or 100,000kms.

Originally Posted by mondo_broady

for those wondering about CV joints, on full lock it is an unmistakable sound. not sure about warranty if the boots are split??

It's not a user replaceable part...it's also not a wear and tear item...I'm 99% sure that the boots would be covered, but what will happen is that they would still replace the whoe thing under warranty or outside warranty. If you find that the boot has split, you can take it to a CV specalist and they can replace the boot for a couple of hundred $$$'s...had a mate do that on his liberty....cost him $250 i think....but it had only just happened and he took it straight there....

[Velociraptor82]

Originally Posted by mondo_broady

Velocir, if you have done the full lock turn in both directions and there is no noise, then it will not be the CV joint. what does the car do when you put it into gear whilst sitting with the handbrake on? is there tthe same loud knock? does the car seem to lurch?

If the car is sitting stationary (with my foot on the brake as I do not have a handbrake) the car still makes the knock. As stated above it is worst when just getting into the car and switching from Park into Reverse. The knock happens a few moments after the gear has changed and sometimes can be felt through the car, but I wouldn't call it a lurch more like a small jolt.

[entheos]

actually another thing it could be is engine mounts...I had that jolting feeling when engaging first or reverse....but also in neutral....try this....sit in neutral and give the engine a small rev...say up to 2000 or 2500rpm. then get off the acellerator in one go...don't slowly release the throttle but take your foot straight off the throttle...if you feel the jolt then as well, it's possible engine/gearbox mounts....Mine had never been touched and when I found the issue, I took it to the workshop and when they put it up on the hoist...they found of the 3 bolts holding the mount in, 1 was missing, one was loose to about half thread and the 3rd was nearly all the way out...all tightened...no more jolts....just another thing to try....if that's not happening.....your prognosis is probably right with the transmission...

when you say you don't have a handbrake....ummm.....did they neglect to fit it when the car was being built? I'm pretty sure all cars have a handbrake of some description....but then...I don't know if this is a joke about the 'ability' of the handbrake.... :S

[mondo_broady]

does it clunk through the gears under driving load? does it make any sounds you'd think are out of the ordinary?? if not, i wouldn't worry greatly and just get it checked out. it could be something that only needs an adjustment? i've had 2 auto gearboxes fail on me in my years. one was a magna which just "lost" reverse. the other was a honda/rover which failed when my missus changed from reverse to drive. neither of those had a "clunk" before they failed, so i'm not sure that noise alone is a sign of impending failure.

[Velociraptor82]

Originally Posted by entheos

when you say you don't have a handbrake....ummm.....did they neglect to fit it when the car was being built? I'm pretty sure all cars have a handbrake of some description....but then...I don't know if this is a joke about the 'ability' of the handbrake.... :S

hahaha.. I don't have a handbrake becasue of the way Ford have setup the handbrake on the Focus. When pulled, it spring activates the pads inside the caliper. My Aftermarket calipers do not have this feature, therefore my handbrake is just a loose wire.

Here is the only pic i could find on my computer showing off my brakes. (old wallpaper)

[More revs]

Not legal at all, maybe you shouldn't have revealed that here.

[Neale]

10 grand for manual conversion, I found a 2005 manual LS, CL the same colour as yours for $8,000

[MR_LON]

hey simon, does it hapen all the time when you change from fwd to rev or rev to fwd?
if so it could be the drive shafts loose in the hubs, this is a common problem on the XR5's.
if you don't know if the auto has been serviced it might be worth getting it done. having all the load of the car on the gearbox on a hill isn't that good.
have you had a lok at the rear calipers to see if there is some way for a handbrake, you may have to go for a hydrolic set up.

[20focus05]

I missed a few posts but have you had the engine mounts checked as this will make a knock on gear changes and also when moving shift from park-reverse-drive.