which car/model changed the face of performance for aussie cars?

[RAPID_BA]

Which car/model changed the face of performance for aussie cars?

Whilst it is no longer at the top of the tree and I hate to say it but the LS1 changed the performance benchmark for aussie cars. Mid 14s for a base model vt2 commodore executive.

Prior to that we were pulling teeth to get the old windsor or holden v8 to dip into the 14s.

Ford were forced to lift their game several times to be on par and had to develop the boss to match it. So responsive to mods.

I think as much as we hate it, we have to acknowledge the ls1 changed the game

[2011G6E]

Further back than that...

The XU1 Torana and the E38 and E49 Chargers did it...people suddenly realised you didn't need bulk cubes to achieve performance, something that had been known overseas for decades (erm...at least in Europe and England...). As long as your car had a well set up chassis and was nicely balanced, with the right engine and the right mods, you could comprehensively wipe the floor with "the big boys" who thought engine development started and stopped at 8 cylinders in a V configuration...

We're almost seeing a seed of this growing again today...Ford V8's have to have a supercharger to make a significant difference over a turbo six cylinder, at least enough to try and differentiate the two and justify the price difference. I still vividly recall two FPV's sitting at Ford in Rockhampton, one an F310 sedan and the other a GS ute...310kw out of a turbo six, and 315 out of a V8...? Why bother paying the extra price, hugely increased rego and insurance costs for the V8?

[Wretched]

XR GT started the whole thing.
Then I would have to say the VLT in the 80's with the XR6T in the 2000's.

[bingoTE50]

Depends how old you are really !! Probably the XR GT and the HK Monaro's although I have a Bathurst DVD that shows a VC Valiant running second after the first lap of the Armstrong 500 in 1966 ..... all in the eye of the beholder really..and I got my P's in one of these.

[V3RSAC3]

Would probably have to say for me, was the XR6T that changed the game. I mean Holden had the S/C V6 but it just wasn't the same! For years if you wanted a performance Aussie built car you thought V8 straight away. Now, the XR6T's are a strong contender for the performance boys who aren't so die hard V8. An XR6T left Holden for dead, and was even eating it's ford V8 counter part.

For me, the BA XR6T set the bench mark for Australian Performane!

[bingoTE50]

Yes I would agree the BA XR6T is a contender.Big power available with not too much money.

[StrokedXT]

Xrgt.........

[anto]

1967 XR GT ! everything else performance related was a reaction to that.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Which car/model changed the face of performance for aussie cars?

Whilst it is no longer at the top of the tree and I hate to say it but the LS1 changed the performance benchmark for aussie cars. Mid 14s for a base model vt2 commodore executive.

Prior to that we were pulling teeth to get the old windsor or holden v8 to dip into the 14s.

Ford were forced to lift their game several times to be on par and had to develop the boss to match it. So responsive to mods.

I think as much as we hate it, we have to acknowledge the ls1 changed the game

Say what ???
The P3 was doin 14s 1/4s in 1971
So it took holden how long to get something to top the king
And your put this rubbish on a ford forum
Cmon

Which car changed the face of performance cars
Ya wanna turn the clock back over 40 years for that correct answer

* The e49 6 cylinder charger of the early 70s were doin 14 1/4s as well
Commondore changed the face of performance cars in australia,not ever

[wraith]

In term's of motor. VT changed the face of performance for the V8 boys with the Ford 8 severely lacking. Then of course came the BA XR6T and showed Holden how to make a good forced induction 6.

[Uncle Niceguy]

Originally Posted by anto

1967 XR GT ! everything else performance related was a reaction to that.

I'm gonna agree with this guy although the charger really was the way but the xr gt is aussie and the charger is american.

[FreddyDUZ747]

The BA XR6T put Ford back on the map and set everyone straight imo in the modern era.

With the LS Commodores the performance never came till VX because they were still working out the edit properly.

Does a Aussie delivered R32 GTR quallify,my mate has a white one and is stock bar exhaust with less than 50,000kms.These are great also.

I think the VL turbo still has the runs on the board over the BA,look at what a good example sells for,more than some stock/modified BA's.

[jcxr]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Say what ???
The P3 was doin 14s 1/4s in 1971
So it took holden how long to get something to top the king
And your put this rubbish on a ford forum
Cmon

Which car changed the face of performance cars
Ya wanna turn the clock back over 40 years for that correct answer

* The e49 6 cylinder charger of the early 70s were doin 14 1/4s as well
Commondore changed the face of performance cars in australia,not ever

Quarter mile figures are not what a performance car is all about.
Handling,braking, etc are more in line with performance than just outright HP
P3 was a pig to drive.

[T3man]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Which car/model changed the face of performance for aussie cars?

In recent times (which is obviously what you are thinking about because you mention LS1) it would have to be the Subaru Imprezza WRX. When it came onto the market as a 2.0L Turbo AWD offering V8 performance (or better in STI guise) at just a fraction of the cost, it really set the bench mark against which almost every locally sold performance car became judged.

[bingoTE50]

Not really Aussie but RX2 Mazda's were also great little performance cars just not that reliable .Wind these babies out to 7200 rpm 120 miles per hour.... ( thats the reliability problem) not bad for 1972,great fun to drive.

[DJM83]

Are you on school holidays Hulk
Honestly though what do you define as performance? This in itself is where IMO is hard to decide as a everyone has differing views of what performance is measured on

[vibe_xr6]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Are you on school holidays Hulk
Honestly though what do you define as performance? This in itself is where IMO is hard to decide as a everyone has differing views of what performance is measured on

i was thinking the same, so many hulk threads in so little time

[T3man]

... and with so little worth ...

[Ducati888]

Originally Posted by T3man

In recent times (which is obviously what you are thinking about because you mention LS1) it would have to be the Subaru Imprezza WRX. When it came onto the market as a 2.0L Turbo AWD offering V8 performance (or better in STI guise) at just a fraction of the cost, it really set the bench mark against which almost every locally sold performance car became judged.

Yep. Agree completely T3 man. They put modern performance on the map and got a whole bunch of non-V8 oriented petrol heads on to performance vehicles.

[RAPID_BA]

How can people baulk at the vt2 ls1 being the game changer? Nothing since the gtho of the early 70s ran a 14 second pass. Maybe a few one off specials like vn group a or vr gts stroker but they were $70k+

The vt2 allowed everyone into the 14s for about $30k brand new. Nothing else in that base price went near it. It took ford 10 attempts at the windsor and finally a stroker 5.6 at $70k price to go with the stocky vt2 executive ls1. Even then the ls1 was far more tunable and had heaps more ready to be unleashed.

The ba xr6t was also a step up but in stock form didn't really offer more than a stock ls1. But also good cheap power. I think the ba xr6t and boss v8 was a kneejerk response to the ls1.

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Which car/model changed the face of performance for aussie cars?

Whilst it is no longer at the top of the tree and I hate to say it but the LS1 changed the performance benchmark for aussie cars. Mid 14s for a base model vt2 commodore executive.

Prior to that we were pulling teeth to get the old windsor or holden v8 to dip into the 14s.

Ford were forced to lift their game several times to be on par and had to develop the boss to match it. So responsive to mods.

I think as much as we hate it, we have to acknowledge the ls1 changed the game

You obviously like to live in lust of the LS1,
Funny you mention mid 14's as the Falcon equivalent of the LS1 at arival was also dipping into the mid 14's, hell my measly ol AUII XR8 was doing Mid 14's when tested new.

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

You obviously like to live in lust of the LS1,
Funny you mention mid 14's as the Falcon equivalent of the LS1 at arival was also dipping into the mid 14's, hell my measly ol AUII XR8 was doing Mid 14's
when tested new.

The windsors of the same era were no match. Let's remember ford upgraded the windsor 4 times in what seemed like a month after repeatedly getting knocked to the canvas in comparisons with the ls1. Only the xr6t and boss 5.4 properly addressed the situation.

I'm no ls1 lover but the facts are the facts.

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

How can people baulk at the vt2 ls1 being the game changer? Nothing since the gtho of the early 70s ran a 14 second pass. Maybe a few one off specials like vn group a or vr gts stroker but they were $70k+

The vt2 allowed everyone into the 14s for about $30k brand new. Nothing else in that base price went near it. It took ford 10 attempts at the windsor and finally a stroker 5.6 at $70k price to go with the stocky vt2 executive ls1.

The ba xr6t was also a step up but in stock form didn't really offer more than a stock ls1. But also good cheap power. I think the ba xr6t was a response to the ls1.

Heres one article my dear missinformed friend Hulk that you should read, and pay attention to the ending.

By TIM BRITTEN 15/10/2001

FORD'S latest version of the XR8 Falcon bristles with authority. Under the relatively mild-mannered exterior lurks what is undoubtedly the best engine-chassis marriage ever to have been achieved by Ford in Australia.

Ford gave us its version of what it thought an independent rear suspension should be with the introduction of the AU Falcon in 1998, immediately relegating Holden into second place in terms of mechanical sophistication. Then, in October 1999 at the launch of the upmarket FTE Fords, it unveiled a delicious 220kW roller-rocker version of the venerable Windsor V8.

The FTE venture hasn't really produced the results hoped for - a bad thing for Ford's sporty upmarket aspirations, but a good thing for the XR series because now the TS50's reworked Windsor V8 becomes the standard XR8 engine. This gives the jump in power needed to combat the 5.7-litre V8 used in the SS Commodore and helps add a new dimension to a chassis that has already proved itself on Australian battlefields.

The latest, and probably last Windsor engine is undoubtedly also the greatest. It's staggering to think how long this powerplant has been around; it was first seen here in 289 cubic-inch form as the engine for the massive Ford Galaxie in 1964 and has done duty in Falcons since the launch of the XR model in 1966.

Power levels have risen and fallen, the latter due to emission controls in the 1970s, but the latest version seen in the XR8 is undoubtedly the most powerful five-litre Windsor to come from the factory. It produces virtually the same power as the 351 cubic-inch (5.8-litre) engine used in the Phase III Falcon GT from the early 1970s.

Considering the differences in capacity, the Ford does a good job of partly closing the gap to Holden's much more contemporary all-alloy engine. 220kW at 5250rpm is not at all shabby compared with the Holden's 225kW at 5200rpm and nor is the torque, which reads 435Nm at 4000rpm compared with the 5.7-litre's 460Nm at 4400rpm.

The extra power comes via a selective rebuild carried out at Tickford's facility just around the corner from Ford's Campbellfield plant. This involves stripping the engine down to its underwear (block, pistons, rods and crankshaft) then carefully adding the bits able to extract more power.

These include a new, sportier camshaft, reworked cylinder-heads with new valves and springs, a rework of the ports and intake manifolds to improve breathing and the installation of the roller rockers to reduce friction and allow higher engine revs. A new, free-flowing exhaust system, including the exhaust manifold, finishes the job.

This engine, personally engraved by the builder, is then installed under the bonnet of the XR8, with no price penalty.

What 220kW does for the XR8 must be experienced to be believed. If you're simply tooling around town, keeping the revs to reasonable limits, you might think there's nothing really noticeable about the new V8. But if you slam the pedal to the floor, and look seriously at what the tachometer is telling you, then you're about to be propelled into an entirely new universe.

The 220kW emits a cacophony that rivals the current Mustang V8 in terms of its delightful aural qualities. Where local V8s have in the past essentially been mid-range grunters, the Ford clearly loves working at the upper end of the power band, building power where others begin to wheeze and choke - 5500rpm and above is a piece of cake.

And it's not illusory: the XR8 will cut well under 15 seconds for the standing 400-metre sprint, equal to what the best of the legendary Falcon GTHOs were capable of recording and right on top of the current group of proletarian supercars.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by anto

1967 XR GT ! everything else performance related was a reaction to that.

Agree 100%, no if's or but's...........

[Nikked]

The EB S-XR6 reminded us all the a N/A six can still be a performance contender, and cemented the fact the the Aussie 6 was a genuinely flexible motor, able to deliver a taxi spec reliable motorvaton and performance.

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by eb-fairmont

I'm gonna agree with this guy although the charger really was the way but the xr gt is aussie and the charger is american.

Ah sorry??? WTF??

The charger is American? We are talking Valiant Charger, you know, Mad Max II, Running from the Guns, made in Australia Charger. Not Bullit, Dukes of Hazzard Dodge Charger.

The four things these cars have in common, is the name, parent company, the door mirror on the different model, & the engine name & cylinder head configuration of "hemi" that's where the similarity ends.

The Valiant Charger was the first Australian designed car to have an integrated boot spoiler. The E49/48 37/38's were all powered by a 265 triple webbered 6 cylinder that could outrun the P4 down the quarter.

That charger.

[tankclare]

My opinions:

GTR-XU1 torana - pocket rocket that cleaned up at bathurst and proved you dont need a big motor to go well.

1967 XR GT - enough said.. V8 performance and the GT name

Phase IV GTHO - Pretty much a race car built for the road and even the government thought it was too much to handle lol

Valiant charger - Another 6 cylinder to stir the pot amongst the v8's.

BA XR6T - We already knew the falcon 6 was good but I think the turbo barra motor is what opened the eyes of everyone and made people respect the falcon 6 a whole lote more.

Holden injected 304 in VN-VS - As much as we hate them when they first came on the seen every man and his dog either had one or wanted one. They can be easily put into just about anything and reasonably easy to mod.

AU XR8 and T-series - Started putting ford v8s back on the map

[Donny]

Originally Posted by eb-fairmont

I'm gonna agree with this guy although the charger really was the way but the xr gt is aussie and the charger is american.

You got your cars 180 degrees wrong..
The Aus Charger was an all Aussie car. With a unique to Australia designed body and the 265 was all Aussie too, where as the XR GT was mostly American, the body was borne from an American varient adapted for us and the drivetrain was 100% American. Remember the XT advertising motto... More Mustang!!...lol

But to the opening point of the topic, many have forgotten the Mini Cooper S.. Now that was quite a benchmark for its time, and a genuine Cooper S would beat a XR or XT GT upto 100MPH.. Then comes the 6 cyl Toranas and Chargers etc etc.
LS anything...??? WTF...Pfffffft... Holdog just pulled a complete donk from the General Motors antique pile and slapped in the Commondogs.. Iv actually gotta say I preferred the local 308's etc that Holdog made over the Chev versions.

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Heres one article my dear missinformed friend Hulk that you should read, and pay attention to the ending.

By TIM BRITTEN 15/10/2001

FORD'S latest version of the XR8 Falcon..

The FTE venture hasn't really produced the results hoped for -

It's staggering to think how long this powerplant has been around;

the Ford does a good job of partly closing the gap to Holden's much more contemporary all-alloy engine. .

So another version of the xr8 as per your story and my comments. It acts to partly close the gap? You call that a win? Does your story support my contention about the ls1 being the game changer?

Don't get me wrong I love the windsor and even own one but its no ls1

[anto]

Originally Posted by Conundrum

The Valiant Charger was the first Australian designed car to have an integrated boot spoiler. The E49/48 37/38's were all powered by a 265 triple webbered 6 cylinder that could outrun the P4 down the quarter.

That charger.

just because you wish it, doesnt make it so