Holden to use ZF 6 speed transmissions?

Cobra · 22-10-2005, 01:22 PM

In the latest MOTOR mag they claim "a shock to Ford, as holden will now use the same ZF 6 speed transmission that will power the BF Falcon". I thought Holden was always going to use the 6L80 or whatever it is. Isn't this the trans that powers many rwd cadilacs and the new Corvette C6?

We allready use the same 6 speed manual, I'd like to see a bit of differentiation in the autos. I think both autos will be great and I'd like to see Ford and Holden continually use different products and components to compete, rather than be more similar to each other.

johnydep · 22-10-2005, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobra

In the latest MOTOR mag they claim "a shock to Ford, as holden will now use the same ZF 6 speed transmission that will power the BF Falcon". I thought Holden was always going to use the 6L80 or whatever it is. Isn't this the trans that powers many rwd cadilacs and the new Corvette C6?

Too big & heavy, it is based on the TH400. Very strong trans though.

Plus there are rumours that ZF will assemble auto trans in S.A. next to the Holden plant. ZF are already building a plant there, so far it's officially for steering & suspension components.

Bossxr8 · 22-10-2005, 01:47 PM

I can't see why they would use the ZF when they have the GM trans that would be cheaper for them.

**Bluehoon** · 22-10-2005, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I can't see why they would use the ZF when they have the GM trans that would be cheaper for them.

Cos that GM trans is now as bad as what our 4 speed slushbox ION rubbish is.

Holden need somethingh competitive, and they need to go euro (and not just look it

: )...

Its a copy cat thing too, tit tat, tit tat...

MaDDoG · 22-10-2005, 06:22 PM

Having owned an auto VX Clubsport (with some mods) I can only say the new auto will be a good thing for HSV.

Oh and hi....this is my first post on this forum....validated user at LS1 forum. I( have perviously owned Fords, Holdens etc and am currently driving an Accord Euro. I am now looking at a BF GT 6 speed auto for next year though........silver with red/orange decals and 19" wheels.

:

**Bluehoon** · 22-10-2005, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDDoG

Having owned an auto VX Clubsport (with some mods) I can only say the new auto will be a good thing for HSV.

Oh and hi....this is my first post on this forum....validated user at LS1 forum. I( have perviously owned Fords, Holdens etc and am currently driving an Accord Euro. I am now looking at a BF GT 6 speed auto for next year though........silver with red/orange decals and 19" wheels.

:

Welcome to the forums....

Falcon Freak · 22-10-2005, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnydep

Too big & heavy, it is based on the TH400. Very strong trans though.

Plus there are rumours that ZF will assemble auto trans in S.A. next to the Holden plant. ZF are already building a plant there, so far it's officially for steering & suspension components.

The plant ZF is building in Adelaide is to assemble the suspension sub-assemblies for Holden as Dana have lost the contract. ZF is not planning to build transmissions in Australia.

FF

Bossxr8 · 23-10-2005, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

Cos that GM trans is now as bad as what our 4 speed slushbox ION rubbish is.

Holden need somethingh competitive, and they need to go euro (and not just look it

: )...

Its a copy cat thing too, tit tat, tit tat...

What are you talking about, the new GM 6 speed auto is supposed to be quite good, for use in the Corvette and in Cadillacs, its a brand new design. Not as good as the ZF but it should be a big step up from the TH700, nothing on sale today could be as bad as the ancient TH700 used in the VZ.

Cobra · 23-10-2005, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

What are you talking about, the new GM 6 speed auto is supposed to be quite good, for use in the Corvette and in Cadillacs, its a brand new design. Not as good as the ZF but it should be a big step up from the TH700, nothing on sale today could be as bad as the ancient TH700 used in the VZ.

You're exactly right. That's why I can't for the life of me understand why Holden would use the ZF. I would have thought it would be quite a bit more expensive for them to use it than the 6L80E as its not only built specifically for GM, but it's engineered to fit on LS2s and probably the HFV6 too. For Holden to use the ZF trans, I would have thought it would cost them more to both source it and R&D to work with their cars.

I do hope Holden go with the GM trans and we have the ZF unique to us! I have heard that the 6L80 is a very good transmission though, and it's apparently very strong too.

XA-Coupe · 23-10-2005, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDDoG

Having owned an auto VX Clubsport (with some mods) I can only say the new auto will be a good thing for HSV.

Oh and hi....this is my first post on this forum....validated user at LS1 forum. I( have perviously owned Fords, Holdens etc and am currently driving an Accord Euro. I am now looking at a BF GT 6 speed auto for next year though........silver with red/orange decals and 19" wheels.

:

Welcome aboard... I would expect that the Accord would be somewhat underwhelming power wise after the Clubbie

**Bluehoon** · 23-10-2005, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

What are you talking about, the new GM 6 speed auto is supposed to be quite good, for use in the Corvette and in Cadillacs, its a brand new design. Not as good as the ZF but it should be a big step up from the TH700, nothing on sale today could be as bad as the ancient TH700 used in the VZ.

Ever driven their 6 speed?

Its just as bad as the TH700, i would take a Borg warner 5 speed from a VH before i would go near that 6 speed.

ssj_jaypee · 23-10-2005, 03:39 PM

If that 6 speed auto can make an F6 Typhoon go from 0-100 in 5.3 seconds, imagine what it will do for a 400hp Clubsport!!

: :eclipsee_

Cobra · 23-10-2005, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

Ever driven their 6 speed?

Its just as bad as the TH700, i would take a Borg warner 5 speed from a VH before i would go near that 6 speed.

What have you driven that has it fitted?

**Bluehoon** · 23-10-2005, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobra

What have you driven that has it fitted?

One quick correction, Holden (GM) use the 5 speed that is in the Cadillacs and Corvettes. The ZF is their new 6 speed.

I drove a brand new SV6. The auto hasn't got a clue what its doing. Cnanges and shifting was all over the place.
The transmission was also very unresponsive.
For a putt putt for the Mrs, no worries. If you want something with some go, get the TH700, or the manual....

To sum up, i own a VK EFI with a trimatic. That thing gave the SV6 that much curry it was a worry.......
Neck and neck...

johnydep · 23-10-2005, 07:00 PM

Ratios are very similar.

Quote:

The Hydra-matic 6-Speed RWD is a fully automatic, six-speed, rear-wheel drive, electronic-controlled transmission. It consists primarily of a four-element torque converter, an integral fluid pump and converter housing, a single and double planetary gear set, friction and mechanical clutch assemblies, and a hydraulic pressurization and control system.

The transmission is equipped with DSC(Driver Shift Control) which is a "manual" mode, and utilizes rocker switches on the steering the driver may select upshifts or downshifts An upshift is requested by pushing either + button. A downshift is requested by pulling either + button rearward toward the driver.

RPO Codes:
MYC
Production Location:
Ypsilanti, Michigan (USA)

Transmission Drive:
Rear Wheel Drive
1st Gear Ratio
4.027
2nd Gear Ratio
2.364
3rd Gear Ratio
1.532
4th Gear Ratio
1.152
5th Gear Ratio
0.852
6th Gear Ratio
0.667
Reverse
3.064

Diameter of Torque Converter Turbine:
258/300 mm
Pressure Taps:
Line Pressure
Transmission Fluid Type:
Dexron VI
Transmission Fluid Capacity:
9.54 L (10.08 qt) - 6CDA
9.71 L (10.27 qt) - 6CZA
11.92 L (12.60 qt) - 6CYA
Transmission Type: 6
Six Forward Gears
Transmission Type: L
Longitude Mount
Transmission Type:
80 Product Series
Position Quadrant
P, R, N, D, S (some models)
Case Material
Die Cast Aluminum
Transmission Net Weight
95.1 kg (209.7 lb) - 6CDA
96.7 kg (213.2 lb) - 6CZA
103.7 kg (228.6 lb) - 6CYA

Zf 6 speed ratio in the Ford;
World Class Six-Speed Automatic

Quote:

1st gear ratio 4.17
2nd gear ratio 2.34
3rd gear ratio 1.52
4th gear ratio 1.14
5th gear ratio 0.87
6th gear ratio 0.69
Reverse 3.40

Bossxr8 · 23-10-2005, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

One quick correction, Holden (GM) use the 5 speed that is in the Cadillacs and Corvettes. The ZF is their new 6 speed.

I drove a brand new SV6. The auto hasn't got a clue what its doing. Cnanges and shifting was all over the place.
The transmission was also very unresponsive.
For a putt putt for the Mrs, no worries. If you want something with some go, get the TH700, or the manual....

To sum up, i own a VK EFI with a trimatic. That thing gave the SV6 that much curry it was a worry.......
Neck and neck...

Wrong transmission, its not the 5 speed in the SV6, its a brand new 6 speed that has little in common with the 5 speed. How can you have driven one when it is just about to go into production in the US.

**Bluehoon** · 23-10-2005, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Wrong transmission, its not the 5 speed in the SV6, its a brand new 6 speed that has little in common with the 5 speed. How can you have driven one when it is just about to go into production in the US.

The 5 speed is in the VZ Series...........
And currently in the Caddies and Vettes........

Bossxr8 · 23-10-2005, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

The 5 speed is in the VZ Series...........
And currently in the Caddies and Vettes........

For 6 cylinders yes, they use the 5 speed as in VZ, but the 6 speed GM auto is for use with V8 models.

Steffo · 24-10-2005, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

One quick correction, Holden (GM) use the 5 speed that is in the Cadillacs and Corvettes. The ZF is their new 6 speed.

I drove a brand new SV6. The auto hasn't got a clue what its doing. Cnanges and shifting was all over the place.
The transmission was also very unresponsive.
For a putt putt for the Mrs, no worries. If you want something with some go, get the TH700, or the manual....

To sum up, i own a VK EFI with a trimatic. That thing gave the SV6 that much curry it was a worry.......
Neck and neck...

The 5L40E they use in the VZ SV6 was originally built by GM for use by BMW. The 5-speed auto 3-Series models (E36, some E46s) all had this transmission. And it was quite a good thing in the BMW's. Put its poor performance down to Holden's sloppy fitment and programming, not the trans itself.

T3man · 24-10-2005, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobra

In the latest MOTOR mag they claim "a shock to Ford, as holden will now use the same ZF 6 speed transmission that will power the BF Falcon". I thought Holden was always going to use the 6L80 or whatever it is. Isn't this the trans that powers many rwd cadilacs and the new Corvette C6?

We allready use the same 6 speed manual, I'd like to see a bit of differentiation in the autos. I think both autos will be great and I'd like to see Ford and Holden continually use different products and components to compete, rather than be more similar to each other.

Why? It's just like the V8 supercars. If you take the Holden body off the running gear is virtually identical. Holden have ben allowed to modify thier cars in order to be competitive with Ford on the track. They were allowed modified front struts because they could not compete with the Ford wishbone setup. They were allowed the Watts link rear end because their IRS was not up to track use. They have the same Ford 9" difs. Both have Holinger gearboxes.

Now Holden will do the same on the road as it is the only way they can compete with the better product. GM US won't spend the money needed to make Holden technically competitive in the local arena. Not enough market to justify it. So it is easier to copy. It will work for them as it always does ... because the bogans still believe Holden is Australia's own.

PS Ford and Holden have been using the same gearboxes and diffs for years now.

macca_779 · 24-10-2005, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3man

Why? It's just like the V8 supercars. If you take the Holden body off the running gear is virtually identical. Holden have ben allowed to modify thier cars in order to be competitive with Ford on the track. They were allowed modified front struts because they could not compete with the Ford wishbone setup. They were allowed the Watts link rear end because their IRS was not up to track use. They have the same Ford 9" difs. Both have Holinger gearboxes.

Now Holden will do the same on the road as it is the only way they can compete with the better product. GM US won't spend the money needed to make Holden technically competitive in the local arena. Not enough market to justify it. So it is easier to copy. It will work for them as it always does ... because the bogans still believe Holden is Australia's own.

PS Ford and Holden have been using the same gearboxes and diffs for years now.

You statement T3 is flawed yes holden does use a 9inch and double wish bone front end but it wasn't so they could be competitive. they were doing mine on a mcpherson strut It was to homologate the series. And as for the diff well there aint much 9 inch left in them these days the housing is harrop and the gears are mini spool and they always have been since 93. Plus when did a falcon road car last have a 9 inch, over 20 years ago.

MaDDoG · 24-10-2005, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XA Coupe

Welcome aboard... I would expect that the Accord would be somewhat underwhelming power wise after the Clubbie

Um...yessssss but nice all the same.

johnydep · 29-10-2005, 03:15 PM

GMH took delivery of 20,000 liters of auto trans fluid at the Elizabeth plant, it is a different formulation to their normal delivery of Dexron III.

Could this be the Dexron IV required for the Hydra-matic 6-Speed?

20,000 liters works out to roughly 1500 vehicle fills.