2016 where does that leave HSV - Page 2

buggo · 13-02-2013, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

You mean like once small RWD sedans were the core of Toyota and Nissans business and if you wanted a 4WD you went to Land Rover?

There is only ONE reason why both Ford and Holden and therefore by proxy FPV and HSV will stop selling large V8 RWD sedans and that is because they are not selling enough for it to be profitable.

So what will HSV do when there are no more RWD commodores? They will either evolve or die. This has been the fate of dinosaurs for hundreds of millions of years.

More like the 380 and the Australian Mitshubishi arm. As we both agree, sell (and be profitable) or close the doors.

HSV's/FPV's are such a niche product in Australia, and there is no way they'd be able to compete globally with the likes of AMG, M, and RS Audi's for similar money.
The only way for them to become really succesful without a fast sedan base would be to go mainstream, but that's the job of Ford and Holden.
HSV and FPV have trialed branching out already, unless it's a rear drive sedan or ute, sales aren't there. Think F6X, Avalanche, Coupe 4, Astra.

Quote:

As for how many HSV Astras aka Vauxhall Astra VXR, well I think you will find that there were more "HSV Astras" sold worldwide than HSV commodores.

It's a good thing we're talking about Australia then.

macman · 13-02-2013, 05:09 PM

I don't think the discussion is about what a small car can do vs a large car. One is not BETTER or WORSE than the other, they are simply different to cater for different tastes, different uses, different driver experience.

The OP's post was hardly a knock at small cars. No one denies small cars can be quick, or large cars can be quick? Sooo can we drop the ego and discuss the topic at hand please.

My opinion, answering the OPs question/statement is that Vauxhall in the UK have their HSV equivalent (VXR) which do small, medium and large cars. Some damn nice cars too! Google a VXR Insignia!

The Australian HSV market appeals to a different taste/feel and audience and I don't know how well HSV would do copying VXR's example.

Which makes me wonder what HSV would do provided Commodore ceased production in 2016.

Just look out on the streets, there are enough new HSV's about so there's obviously a market for a large, RWD, V8 car - REGARDLESS of the small/large car power/speed/towing debate.

As another member contributed - would those people then need to look at the European cars (Maserati, BMW, AMG etc)?

jpblue1000 · 13-02-2013, 06:05 PM

being back from OS only 9 months I haven't actually see that many HSV/FPV cars with tow bars, ruins their performance credibility I guess (That's my observation only) Im sure they are out there.
What the HSV/FPV seem to be are working class hero cars, cars normal guys and odd girls choose to buy, that they can afford that provide a performance they desire. We all grew up wanting a V8 and the more litres the better. Of course some of us grew up, the financial, social and political realities set in.
If you have the means and tastes you may go for a big euro to satisfy those above needs.
Where HSV/FPV succeed is adding the social Viagra to the base model cars. The more money your prepared/able to spend the bigger the ...um...brakes?
If GMH and Ford oz stop building locally produced RWD sedans the new hero car will be something else, will have to be as there isnt an alternative.
But my feeling is they wont stop selling large Cars capable of towing, and carrying 5 in sort of comfort, as its part of our market desire, Im guessing adding Up commodore, falcon, territory all the 4WD's Awd's, Hilux, bravo etc 4 door utes and large front drivers (380, camry, mondeo) the large car sector is still alive, just spoilt for choice compared to 10 years ago..
Just imagine a FPV Kuga, Ranger or even transit...Oh yeah!
As for survival, adapt or die, or see the inevitable change and auto amputate away. Whatever comes will be suitable for our market, maybe just not everyones taste and the tuners will tune em.
JP

FalconXR6 · 13-02-2013, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Well it was in fact very reliable as I owned it for 4 years from new and did over 150,000km in it.

Why you buy your car is your business but stating "can't pull a trailer with 5 pax" as an important reason then not actually wanting to pull a trailer with 5 pax says a lot about you.......

But you are right, it is wandering a bit. Lets all get back to the "only fast car in the world is a RWD large car with a V8 and anything else is slow so no performance company could ever sell a car that is not a RWD large car with a V8"

You making false and irrelevant statements about comments which i have not made says nothing about me. It does, however continue to give an insight into your character and your ability (or lack of) to interpret...

The fact that plenty of other users continue to post a similar sentiment to mine, confirms that my original comment was valid. That your response to the op was a poor comment, irrelevant and off topic and has done absolutely nothing for the thread other than to have two users state that they have towed trailers with their fwd vehicles - and good on them for having a go too ! ;) - and that fwd performance hatch backs are a good thing...

The HSV business model in Australia will suffer if the platform goes to fwd... And the comment relating to the sales of HSV Astra in Australia helps to validate this... But again, you poorly dismissed this on the basis that it sells reasonably well in other parts of the world. Once again, irrelevant...

I would suggest that given that you have clearly demonstrated that you are unable to grasp the concept of the thread, that you pass the moderation responsibilities onto another moderator...

Oh, and by the way, I previously owned a Mazda 3 MPS and couldn't agree with you more that the platform is capable of being a magnificent basis for a performance car ! But, and here's the point; it's off topic...

burnz · 13-02-2013, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by music189

How would you like to be running HSV at the moment, just been announced that the car your business is built around wont exist from 2016. it is now going to be a front wheel drive four cylinder.

wtf do we(HSV) do now?

probably import Camaros and Corvettes

so the 6 speed transaxel is going to be mounted in the front?
so now they wont need a torque tube, save some money.

music189 · 13-02-2013, 09:34 PM

I was merely tring to point out as has been stated by others posters ,that HSV's buisness is based on the Commodore (current model) 4 door saloon and having a RWD V8 under the bonnet and I hate to admit, it it is a pretty succesfull buisness,as well as employing Australians.

I just wonder what will happen to the buisness if the platform that underpins the whole operation is no longer available.What can they adapt to meet their buisness?

Yes there are plenty of Hi output FWD's around but do HSV customers want that,I dont think so.

DanielXR8 · 13-02-2013, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by music189

How would you like to be running HSV at the moment, just been announced that the car your business is built around wont exist from 2016. it is now going to be a front wheel drive four cylinder.

wtf do we(HSV) do now?

probably import Camaros and Corvettes

The implication being that HSV have no choice but continue. Companies come and go. Like Prodrive if the numbers don't add up they can always call it a day. I'm not saying they will make a decision like that lightly, but then again, they aren't compelled to take a profitable business and make it unprofitable one because its HSV and they have some obligation to keep the brand regardless of whether it makes sense to or not.

They could also stop making regular production cars and just sell rebranded performance parts as HSV.

flappist · 13-02-2013, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

You making false and irrelevant statements about comments which i have not made says nothing about me. It does, however continue to give an insight into your character and your ability (or lack of) to interpret...

The fact that plenty of other users continue to post a similar sentiment to mine, confirms that my original comment was valid. That your response to the op was a poor comment, irrelevant and off topic and has done absolutely nothing for the thread other than to have two users state that they have towed trailers with their fwd vehicles - and good on them for having a go too ! ;) - and that fwd performance hatch backs are a good thing...

The HSV business model in Australia will suffer if the platform goes to fwd... And the comment relating to the sales of HSV Astra in Australia helps to validate this... But again, you poorly dismissed this on the basis that it sells reasonably well in other parts of the world. Once again, irrelevant...

I would suggest that given that you have clearly demonstrated that you are unable to grasp the concept of the thread, that you pass the moderation responsibilities onto another moderator...

Oh, and by the way, I previously owned a Mazda 3 MPS and couldn't agree with you more that the platform is capable of being a magnificent basis for a performance car ! But, and here's the point; it's off topic...

The topic is:

Quote:

Originally Posted by OP

How would you like to be running HSV at the moment, just been announced that the car your business is built around wont exist from 2016. it is now going to be a front wheel drive four cylinder.

wtf do we(HSV) do now? probably import Camaros and Corvettes

So in fact discussing FWD 4s and their performance capabilities is EXACTLY the topic.

It appears that it is not I who has failed to comprehend what was written.

Franco Cozzo · 13-02-2013, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

I would'nt like to stop in a hurry and there's an old saying, because you can does'nt mean you should.

It stopped alright but you take that into consideration when you're driving with something heavy behind you.

Hell, the first time I drove my EL Falcon that was an experience in itself, that thing doesn't stop well at all with just me in it, had to keep in mind it doesn't stop anywhere near as well as the Focus and Fiesta and adjust driving style accordingly.

jpd80 · 14-02-2013, 12:13 AM

I have the feeling that people who actually buy HSV products are going to be rapped with the new VF
and the more sales HSV gets, the better Commodore's prospects for continuing beyond 2017.

A fresh Commodore will kick sales along as the Holden faithful line up after sitting out the last couple of years,
VE is past its best and this refresh is way over due and will present large cars to the market in a new light.

Madaya · 14-02-2013, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

Poor comment... Those cars are small, tight, stiff and agile hatch backs... Not a large, loose and wallowing commodore...fwd under the commo or falc platform would be a disaster !

Now wander off and show us how your fwd hatch tows your boat, seats 5 (in comfort), fits plenty inside AND still manages to outpace plenty in a straight line...

Don't have a boat, most boats I see are towed by SUV, or 4WD. Most cars I see have only one, at best 2 people in them. All cars have a steering wheel, what's this straight line stuff?

As much as we love them, the present day Falcon and dare I say it, Commodore are freaks. Sure, they are a car that can do all of the above pretty well (for the price), but people are very critical these days. Have boat, get 4WD. Carry just you and your mate 99% of the time, get a small car (which may still have some poke).

Ford (and Holden) have been let down by the old timers. We were caught looking at our belly buttons and glorys past.

In closing, may I say. The FG Falcon, in all its variants, is possibly one of the best cars built in Australia. It was built for me and you, but not the World.