help! Missing bolt for caliper mounting bracket

[lionus]

hi guys

I was doing my sisters rotors and pads on her focus when I realised the rotors couriered to me from DBA were the wrong ones. ****ed off, i put back my sisters old rotors on so she could use the car for the time being. (I ordered 2118, they gave me 2870)

Now I tightened the bolts pretty hard - but I didn't use any thread lock material, infact i used a lithium lube. Anyway long story short, my sister had severe problems braking the other day - go figure I check the car and one of hte bolts is missing



I've just made some measurements
It's a 15mm socket, 41mm high, thread size 11.8mm and inner thread size 10.2mm, diameter of support washer is 23.5mm, and the strength rating is 10.5 units (dunno what units). Total of 15 threads.

In anycase, im going to head to bunnings now and see if I can find a similar sized bolt - but would I be able to get an original for this? If i have to buy a new caliper just for that bolt i'll cry.


Thanks

[russellw]

You should be able to get caliper bolts from your local dealer or even a specialist bolt supplier - if you tell me what year I might be able to get you the size.

Cheers
Russ

[lionus]

Hi Russ,

I just got back from bunnings yeah, the bolts they had won't have the right thread size. The guy told me I need to go to a specialist bolts place, there are two near my area in parramatta. One was Boltmasters, the other I cna't remember the name. I might check them out tomorrow. Also will try my luck with thompson ford as well

It's a ford focus 2006 ls lx


Cheers

[KenN0898]

Surely a replacement bolt is available from Ford spares, if one isn't available that doesn't reflect well on Ford.

However, re. the bolt that you have lost, this would concern me, why did it become loose and fall out, did you tighten it to the correct torque?, am not a mechanic but I do know that sometimes certain bolts in certain situations are "use once" only and have to be replaced once they have been disturbed. Perhaps that is the case with the bolts in question. I suggest you check with Ford.

[lionus]

hey ken

well, when I took the bolt out for the first time, it was really tight and it had loc-tite stuff on it. But i ignored it and just lubed up with grease because that's what a lot of sites and people online seem to recommend. Even at my mechanics course they recommend it.
e.g http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/2005-200...placement/3095

And I didn't torque them, I just tightened by feel. It was quite tight, and I drove the car hard around the block to make sure everything was Ok and that the brakes were fine. and it was. Everything sounded fine, but she drove it to the city the next morning and said she heard strange sounds. I thought I didn't lube the slider bolts properly turns out it was something much more serious. Nothing is damaged, teh calipers are scratched a tiny bit because they slipped and hit the rotors. But she got the car towed home right away.


I think it is my bad. I should have used loc-tite. I've never used the stuff before, because I hate undoing them when the time comes, because they feel like they're torqued way higher than they actually are.
But it makes sense to use it on a part that you don't want to slip out.

[lionus]

Ah, Thompson ford seem to be closed for the holiday period still. A lot of wreckers i've tried are closed, special bolts stores are closed, and wreckers that are open don't have any Focuses.

But when I did call another parts place they said getting bolts should be doable so I got that going for me.

[aussiblue]

For all Fords I have worked on Ford Factory Manual usually recommends that the bolts are replaced with the pads, 2 drops of loc-tite applied to the thread and the bolts tightened to a specified torque (ditto with my old Mitsubishi Lancer and most other cars. The only exceptions I know of is where the mounting bolts double as slide pins (like this: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Better-Br...item51b60fc39a and then the threads should be loctited and the slide part lubricated with either silicon grease of special brake grease. Factory pads sometimes even come in a kit with pre loc-tited bolts. Ford will have the required bolts. I would also contact that site and ask they check their advice against the factory manual.

[aussiblue]

BENDIX CERAMIC HIGH PERFORMANCE SYNTHETIC LUBRICANT is the go for slide pins http://[http://www.bendix.com.au/con...rake_lubricant.

[DZFord]

The caliper mounting bolts need to be torqued to 120nm. I'd also recommend a couple of drops of loctite, as aussiblue mentioned.

[Cashie]

I can't believe that guide you posted states to grease the bolts...
Of course you use locktite on brake mounting bolts.
That's why Google can not make you a mechanic unfortunately.
The factory manual would also recommend you replace these bolts every time you remove them as they will be TTY bolts.

[DZFord]

Originally Posted by Cashie

I can't believe that guide you posted states to grease the bolts...
Of course you use locktite on brake mounting bolts.
That's why Google can not make you a mechanic unfortunately.

If you read the link that lionus posted, it never said anything about lubing the mounting bolts. Never have I seen or heard anywhere that the caliper mounting bolts should be lubricated.

The link does correctly mention to lube the slide pins.
"Grease the two guide bolts and reinstall them.
Guide bolts should be torqued to 21 foot-pounds."

The torque setting here is correct.

[lionus]

Originally Posted by DZFord

If you read the link that lionus posted, it never said anything about lubing the mounting bolts. Never have I seen or heard anywhere that the caliper mounting bolts should be lubricated.

The link does correctly mention to lube the slide pins.
"Grease the two guide bolts and reinstall them.
Guide bolts should be torqued to 21 foot-pounds."

The torque setting here is correct.

Yes it did: Here

Reinstall the mounting bracket.
Grease the mounting bracket bolts and install them.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with using a metal-metal based grease. in my mechanics class we were also told the same thing. But it must not apply to all bolts, some bolts need a grease that makes it difficult to loosen.

Both grease and loc-tite act in the same manner when tightening, but when loosening there is the difference. A basic grease makes it easy to loosen, while a loc-tite lube makes it difficult.

And Cashie:
Google can't make you a mechanic, but you sure can learn. I only used this guide as it's my first time replacing calipers. The problem with mechanical work, just like with anything is that there is a lot of pseudoscience surrounding it.

[aussiblue]

Where bolts need lubricant I use anti-seize not grease. And there are some nuts and bolts that should never be lubricated; these include wheel nuts or wheel studs (a big no no) and any brake parts that might lead to contamination of the brake friction surfaces. Where sliding brake parts need lubrication only specially designed brake lubricants should be used.

[DZFord]

Originally Posted by lionus

Yes it did: Here

My bad. Missed that bit.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by lionus

Yes it did: Here



That being said, there is nothing wrong with using a metal-metal based grease. in my mechanics class we were also told the same thing. But it must not apply to all bolts, some bolts need a grease that makes it difficult to loosen.

Both grease and loc-tite act in the same manner when tightening, but when loosening there is the difference. A basic grease makes it easy to loosen, while a loc-tite lube makes it difficult.

And Cashie:
Google can't make you a mechanic, but you sure can learn. I only used this guide as it's my first time replacing calipers. The problem with mechanical work, just like with anything is that there is a lot of pseudoscience surrounding it.

Lesson to be learnt here is brakes are not an area to be learning on, your sister is very very lucky, this could have ended very badly dude.
I have never heard of anyone using or recommending greasing brake mounting bolts, please tell the guy who made that "guide" to remove it.
Also shocked to hear you say you don't like using locktite because it makes the bolts hard to loosen, that's its job.
Get a copy of the factory workshop manual, it will steer you right.

[lionus]

I'm trying to find out from where I can find a service manual. I have a haynes one for my 206 which is good. I use it for torquing bolts basically.


Anyway I got an email from Thompson Ford.

$16.90 for ONE bolt.

Oh well

[Peter B - CV8]

Originally Posted by lionus

I'm trying to find out from where I can find a service manual. I have a haynes one for my 206 which is good. I use it for torquing bolts basically.


Anyway I got an email from Thompson Ford.

$16.90 for ONE bolt.

Oh well

Grab one from the local wreckers (but not from a car that has had huge impact in the front wheel area).

[lionus]

Hi Peter, I was going to, but a drive to bankstown or a quick pickup from Thompson ford, I'd rather just buy a new one. Spoke to the service guys at Thompson, they said the bolts shouldn't be TTY Cashie, so i'm just getting this new one now. And going to purchase several grades of loc-tite for future purposes.

Getting the Haynes manual as well now.

Thanks for the feedback guys. Lesson well learnt.

[lionus]

All done now. Half the time spent was on cleaning dust accumulated around the calipers. Cleaned out rubber guides, generally did a thorough job making sure stuff was cleaned. Lubed up slider pins with synthetic silicia based lube, but I might redo the slider pins again as some lube most likely got on those short threads.

Torqued the bracket bolts and used high strength threadloc =]

The old discs and pads look ok, very strong grooves in there. I really wonder if this whole job will solve the heavy warping at the front that im feeling.

[lionus]

By the way guys, one last question - if you look at the image in the first post, the 15mm mounting bracket bolt goes through the plate on the wheel hub/axle end and suspension knuckle assembly. From this into the caliper bracket. Now this part has no thread. the only threading is on the caliper bracket itself. So in order of threading it goes like this

Bolt -- No threading --- Threading (Caliper Bracket).

Now because all four had this, i wasn't worried but now I am a little. I might drive down to a wreckers and see if their ones are the same.

[lionus]

I don't want to bump this thread but I can't seem to edit posts.

But all done, brakes are really smooth, and the warping problem is gone. Everything is threadlocked and properly lubed.

Thanks once again. Now I have to solve what sounds like a squeaking issue when driving.

[DZFord]

Good to hear that its all sorted now!