Focus - instant fuel economy display?

pugdriver · 04-04-2011, 06:55 AM

Hi

I'm looking at buying a new a Focus TDCI.

I would like the car to have instantaneous fuel economy display in the trip computer.. The owners manual says it does. I have looked at several cars and none of them do. They have average fuel consumption but not instant.

I have asked salesmen and they all assure me that it will, but none can show me a car with working instant fuel economy display.

I have looked at this and other online forums, it seems some people have this display in their Focus and others don't.

The most plausible explanation I have seen was on a UK Ford forum where there was a post saying that the service department can turn the feature on through IDS. (the integrated diagnostic system.) That poster said they need to "release INSTMPG on the BC." Whatever that is.

Has anybody had that done successfully?

Any service techs care to comment?

Thanks.

Tj-zetec · 04-04-2011, 01:51 PM

I can tell you for a fact that the LV XR5 most certainly does. I would imagine the Tdci does too.
From memory, on the 5s computer its one cycle down from the average / 100kms. Obviously, the engine needs to be running for it to display real time figures.

Yellow_Festiva · 04-04-2011, 02:34 PM

LV TDCI DOES NOT have 'instant consumption' readout, only average reading.

Really annoys me, as I was forever resetting it in the first few weeks to gain correct city / HWY consumption readings.

mondo_broady · 04-04-2011, 08:35 PM

instant readings are all over the place anyway so i can't see how they are of much use for city/hwy comparisons??

pugdriver · 04-04-2011, 09:41 PM

instant reading is not to compare highway vs city.

The main benefit of having an instant readout is to learn to drive to get the max economy. It is like an electronic nagger that reminds you to drive more economically.

It is interesting too to see how even slight uphill sections increase fuel use, it's fun to see fuel consumption drop to "0.00" when running downhill too.

The focus under consideration is for my partner. My own car is a Peugeot 307 and it has a great trip computer display, it is a big screen at the top centre of the dashboard, it shows all the figures at once so you don't have to scroll through anything. The instant consumption figure is the main one I watch, also distance to empty.

I already think that the Focus system, where you have to scroll through individual figures on a tiny screen using a flicky appendage on the blinker stalk is pretty second rate, not having the instantaneous consumption figure is a deal breaker in our case. However apart from that we really like the car, so I am keen to find out how to get the instant figure working. I am hopeful that it can be turned on by a Ford tech who knows what they are doing, but they seem thin on the ground.

I went to three Ford dealers today, they all assured me that the car would have the instant figure, but in each case when we went to the car, there was no instant figure. This was for LV and LV Mk2, petrol and diesel cars. Didn't find a single car with instant figure. (didn't look at an XR5). Salesmen were surprised too. Also spoke to service department at two of the dealers, in both cases they first said they thought the car would have instant figure, one bloke said he has a petrol Focus and his own car definitely has it. When I asked about changing a setting in IDS, they understood about IDS but didn't think they could activate the instant economy readout and weren't prepared to make any further enquiries. One car salesman is going to ask further up in Ford for an answer.

Turbodiesel · 04-04-2011, 10:16 PM

This is one thing I've been curious about for a while, as another TDCi owner said their car had instant and it was the same year model as mine. I think there is really an inconsistency with the whole thing.

Let me know how you go.

In Focus · 04-04-2011, 10:48 PM

It's in my Mrs' new Fiesta, but not in my Focus.

marg99 · 05-04-2011, 07:13 AM

My TDCI has instant fuel consumption available . It is a 2007 MY08 LT model.

kevino · 05-04-2011, 07:19 AM

Hmmm. My 2008 LT TDCI only has average fuel consumption.

Marlboro2728 · 05-04-2011, 07:44 AM

My 2009 LV tdci only has average, I would like instantaneous though.

AlanD · 05-04-2011, 08:31 AM

Hi all,

I can't make any comment about the Focus, but I can, hopefuilly throw some light on the question based on experience with a 2008 bulid Mondeo. I'd expect that the module providing the instrumentation readouts are similar, if not identical.

Firstly, the data is available because the Engine Management System is calculating the quantity of fuel to inject for the current conditions - from that point it is a simple calculation to get a l/100km figure, but whether or not the software to do this is loaded is moot, because it depends on which software version your vehicle is equipped with.

Secondly, in our case the car was delivered without it, but some research on an English (European?) forum suggested that a later version of the software provided this data and then even later versions removed it. One guy in the UK had five different versions of the software across a 24 month period! At each "upgrade" features appeared and disappeared, the instantaneous readout was one of them. I'm guessing that this might be due to a limited size permanent memory array in the module - put something new in, something old has to go.

To find out if it "ought" to be present, you would need to track down the version(s) of the software that provides this readout, then discover if your car has the same version or not.

One of the things I have discovered is that Ford Service Centres and FoA have (had?) limited knowledge about the software that imported Fords have. This is because they told us that no Mondeo had ever had this readout provided and it could not be made available. Yet here we are with a car that does! (See later) What is worse they often "upgrade" a car to a later version of the software without letting the owner know that they have unless you read the work order carefully. Sometimes this causes changes in the way the car "works".

Again, in our case, attempts to obtain this readout caused the loss of the average readout as well, because the module where the software was loaded was damaged, either from day 1 or during the attempt to upgrade the software. Either way that service centre has not seen the car since. At the 15.000 service at our usual dealer, and after telling them the story, a replacement module was fitted and the instantaneous readout appeared along with some other mising features such as "Anti hi-jack locking". After the change the cruise control worked differently as well.

From here on in, I will be telling our service centre that software "upgrades" on our car can only be done if I am informed about the need for them and the changes that will follow.

Cheers

pugdriver · 05-04-2011, 02:57 PM

Thanks for that Alan. Very helpful.

It reminds me of my own car, the Peugeot. About a year ago it was recalled for a "software upgrade." The recall notice said that under certain circumstances the headlights could turn themselves off when driving, and the software update would fix that.
I had the update done at the next service. From then on, often when I got home at night, I would turn the lights off but they would stay on. I would then turn the lights back on, then off again and the second time they would turn off. A bit later I noticed that if I turned the lights off slowly (click to parkers, pause a second, click to off) then they would turn off properly, but if I flicked it quickly to off in one movement, it wouldn't be detected and the lights would stay on. I phoned the dealer, the person I spoke to suspected a faulty light switch. [The combined blinker/wiper/other stuff switch is a notorious weak point on early 307s, and costs over $1000. Mine is a late 307 so shouldn't have the problem, and it was under warranty any way. ] But it turned out that the software update included an option in the settings menu "safe operation mode for headlights" and this defaultes to selected (option ticked). But that system, and I still don't know what it was supposed to do, is only for 308s not 307s. So on my car it has to be deselected. When they turned that setting off, the lights returned to normal. There was nothing wrong with the switch.

The Pug, and I assume the Focus and Mondeo. use multiplexed electrics, where the switches on the dash don't control the circuits directly, they just send a message to the computer and the computer turns things on and off. That means even the most mundane functions are controlled by software, and yes, changes to the software means functions appear and disappear. I suspect in the case of your Mondy and in the case of the Focuses, the instantaneous display was always available if the techs knew what they were doing, on some versions it defaults to on and other versions it defaults to off. that's only my guess at this stage.

The hardest thing is that the technicians seem to barely understand the systems they are working with. At least the Peugeot technicians seem more familiar with the funny European electrical systems, maybe I should take a Focus for a test drive and run it to the nearest Pug workshop.....

Franco Cozzo · 05-04-2011, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pugdriver

Thanks for that Alan. Very helpful.

It reminds me of my own car, the Peugeot. About a year ago it was recalled for a "software upgrade." The recall notice said that under certain circumstances the headlights could turn themselves off when driving, and the software update would fix that.
I had the update done at the next service. From then on, often when I got home at night, I would turn the lights off but they would stay on. I would then turn the lights back on, then off again and the second time they would turn off. A bit later I noticed that if I turned the lights off slowly (click to parkers, pause a second, click to off) then they would turn off properly, but if I flicked it quickly to off in one movement, it wouldn't be detected and the lights would stay on. I phoned the dealer, the person I spoke to suspected a faulty light switch. [The combined blinker/wiper/other stuff switch is a notorious weak point on early 307s, and costs over $1000. Mine is a late 307 so shouldn't have the problem, and it was under warranty any way. ] But it turned out that the software update included an option in the settings menu "safe operation mode for headlights" and this defaultes to selected (option ticked). But that system, and I still don't know what it was supposed to do, is only for 308s not 307s. So on my car it has to be deselected. When they turned that setting off, the lights returned to normal. There was nothing wrong with the switch.

The Pug, and I assume the Focus and Mondeo. use multiplexed electrics, where the switches on the dash don't control the circuits directly, they just send a message to the computer and the computer turns things on and off. That means even the most mundane functions are controlled by software, and yes, changes to the software means functions appear and disappear. I suspect in the case of your Mondy and in the case of the Focuses, the instantaneous display was always available if the techs knew what they were doing, on some versions it defaults to on and other versions it defaults to off. that's only my guess at this stage.

The hardest thing is that the technicians seem to barely understand the systems they are working with. At least the Peugeot technicians seem more familiar with the funny European electrical systems, maybe I should take a Focus for a test drive and run it to the nearest Pug workshop.....

Its probably the switch just sends a pulse to a body control modual which that controls everything from there. As you describe, the Mercedes we work on at work has this thing called a PSM, we switch everything on and off through that.

pugdriver · 06-04-2011, 10:09 PM

AlanD:

I'm still chasing up about getting an instantaneous fuel economy display for a Focus TDCI.

Today I spoke on the phone to a dealer near me and they took a car belonging to one of their staff, a Focus LV TDCI , and connected up the IDS and tried to turn on the instantaneous fuel economy display. They couldn't find any such setting.

Would you mind letting me know who your dealer is, the one who fitted a new module and got an instant fuel economy display on your car. I'm wondering if the same can be done to a Focus.

AlanD · 07-04-2011, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pugdriver

AlanD:

I'm still chasing up about getting an instantaneous fuel economy display for a Focus TDCI.

Today I spoke on the phone to a dealer near me and they took a car belonging to one of their staff, a Focus LV TDCI , and connected up the IDS and tried to turn on the instantaneous fuel economy display. They couldn't find any such setting.

Would you mind letting me know who your dealer is, the one who fitted a new module and got an instant fuel economy display on your car. I'm wondering if the same can be done to a Focus.

Hi PD,

Yarra Ranges Ford at Lilydale (outer Eastern Melbourne). I have no interest in this dealership except to say that as a customer they have provided very good service to us for both our cars.

I note that Marg99 has indicated that their car has this readout, but I am reasonably sure that it is not a matter of just "switching it on". This is because it requires a software routine to convert the fuel volume injection information to an equivalent litre/100 km figure and whether or not that software is present would be a function of the version number for the software. In our car it is one of the selectable readouts available as you cycle through them.

Your search might go faster if you register on a British Focus forum and ask some questions about vehicles that have this facility. You will need vehicle build date and IDS software version number if you can get it. Then its just a matter of sourcing the software and uploading it to the module - but ordinarily this is a dealer task and if not available on a new build vehicle they might (understandably) be reluctant to backtrack to an earlier version as there could be unintended consequences.

Over in the Mondeo

subforum there is a guy in NZ (NZXR6 from memory) who has just taken delivery of a new TDCi Mondeo wagon. It might be worthwhile PMing him to see if his new ride has this facility, if it doesn't then it might be a facility that has been discontinued in favour of something deemed to be more useful by EuroFord.

Good Luck

~Spyne~ · 11-04-2011, 11:42 PM

my 2007 TDCi (LT) has average AND instantaneous fuel consumption display

pugdriver · 12-04-2011, 12:33 AM

Today I phoned Ford's phone information service to try to get a firm answer. Of course I got the call centre operator first. I was told that they definitely do have it, because it says so in the handbook.
I explained the whole sorry saga, including that I have now seen about six or seven Focuses at a number of dealers - petrol and diesel, manual and auto, LV and LV Mk2. Not a single one has the instantaneous display. I got the whole deal explained again - a laborious explanation of how to use the trip computer. I said again how I have asked dealers to show me the readout, they all claim it is there, and when they go to show me, it isn't. We went round in circles getting facts straight. Then the operator I spoke to offered to raise it with the "technical boys" who know everything about these cars. HOORAY! we might be getting somewhere. Someone else at the call centre has a new Focus, so they would ask him... his car has the instantaneous display...but his car is an XR5.

I got the reply later in the day.....

Some cars have it and some don't. Earlier Diesel cars are more likely to have it than later diesels. If a car doesn't have the instantaneous display, it can't be added either by switching the function on, or by software upgrade. If it hasn't got it, you can't get it. They know that the handbook says it is there when it isn't. It's a "known issue." They have no plans to do anything about it. You might be able to find a car at a dealer with the display, but you can't order a car to have it. "if you can find a car with the display, you are lucky."

How not good enough is that?

DeKa · 12-04-2011, 09:10 AM

You can get an Instantaneous fuel consumption display if you have a Garmin GPS and Garmin Ecoroute HD device plugged into the EBD port.

Turbodiesel · 12-04-2011, 01:23 PM

Thanks for going through all that trouble pugdriver, nice work.

But what a load of rubbish, I don't get how "some have it". My TDCi was one of the first ones off the boat and I don't have it, impossible software can't fix it. Software can do anything these days.

In other words "We can't be bothered so go away". Anyway at least we have an answer now.

pugdriver · 12-04-2011, 05:23 PM

Yes Turbodiesel, you have hit the nail on the head.

we couldn't be bothered so go away.

It is so frustrating, it seems that every company is the same, though.

The other cars we are considering, and where they fall down:

VW Polo - if you want fog lights, you have to get the sports pack, which also gives you lowered suspension, oversized boy-racer alloy wheels and dark tinted windows - I'm too old for that junk. Can we order a car with fog lights, happy to wait - No. Can fog lights be fitted by a dealer after sale - No. Does it have a coolant temperature gauge, or just a red light to alert you your engine has just melted? - guess...

Peugeot 207 Diesel - Can we get a 207 diesel without the stupid glass roof? - Yes, as long as you are happy with stupid alloy pedals and a stupid cold metal gear lever knob.

We are going to the Motor Show in July, see what new models are on display, and what new annoyances and disincentives to purchase the manufacturers have dreamt up.

We still like the Focus and we still might even buy one, but I'm not rushing to buy one without a proper trip computer.

DeKa · 12-04-2011, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pugdriver

Peugeot 207 Diesel - Can we get a 207 diesel without the stupid glass roof? - Yes, as long as you are happy with stupid alloy pedals and a stupid cold metal gear lever knob.

Stupid? The glass roof is probably the best feature (after the engine). Once you have had a care with a glass roof it's hard to go back to one without.

Turbodiesel · 12-04-2011, 11:01 PM

Cold metal gear lever - hahaha. I imagine it would be quite toasty with the sun on it all day as well. You could knit a sock for it

My brother recently bought a Polo 77TSI without the extras, it is finished extremely well, unbelieveably grunty for a 1.2l and really refined. But as you mentioned VW fails when it comes to options.

All the Focus needs is instand fuel consumption and to be built in Germany and it would be near perfect!

DeKa · 13-04-2011, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbodiesel

Cold metal gear lever - hahaha. I imagine it would be quite toasty with the sun on it all day as well. You could knit a sock for it

The glass roof isn't bad. It's 6mm thick laminated glass with a thermo-reflective layer in it (the same as lots of cars now have in the windscreen which give the purpley reflection in bright sunlight). The glass is only warm to touch on the inside even on 40 degree days, and there is a full length internal solid blind to cover it if you so wish. You can see I miss my glass roof.

bugmesome · 26-05-2014, 09:01 PM

Hi all, I know this is a rather epic thread dig, but in the 3 years since the last post the world has figured out this problem.

I have a Focus LV TDCi (which is how I stumbled on this thread). There's software called "ELMConfig" for Focus LS/LT/LV, which you use with an ELM327 OBDII connector plugged into your car's diagnostic port. I'm not going to give a tutorial here (search the web for "ELMConfig") but amongst its dozens of screens is this:

(see attachment 1)

Which if you tick the box and write it to your car, gives you:

(see attachments 2 and 3, which shows fuel consumption whilst moving and whilst stopped)

pugdriver · 27-05-2014, 03:35 PM

well after three years... we bought a Skoda a year ago. Love it and it hasn't missed a beat. First car we've owned where absolutely NOTHING has gone wrong. I thought only Japanese cars did that.

We did make an offer on a Focus LV Mk2 TDCI. Car was for sale at just under $28000. We offered $25000 plus our trade in, worth about $1000. Dealer wouldn't budge......We kept an eye on the car on carsales, the car finally sold many months later after being advertised with an asking price of under $20000!

Still happy we bought the Skoda. It has everything we wanted, even an instantaneous fuel consumption readout. 1.2 litre petrol engine, regularly returns around 5.1 or 5.2 l/100km. Nippy, zippy and fun.