FPV DECIMATED the HSV!

[futura]

Originally Posted by GT-0733

this thread is just a pull. one of the vehicles is unavailable to buy, so really, the GTS is CURRENTLY the most powerful Aussie car you can walk in off the street and place an order. to me, the other one is already a distant memory.

You can still buy a new FPV GTF 351

http://stores.ebay.com.au/BidsForGood/GTFAuction

This Thread is definitely not a pull. The only one having a "Pull" is you mate! please do not troll in my thread. As for a distant memory, continuing posting like this and you will become one yourself. You have been WARNED.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by futura

You can still buy a new FPV GTF 351

http://stores.ebay.com.au/BidsForGood/GTFAuction

This Thread is definitely not a pull. The only one having a "Pull" is you mate! please do not troll in my thread. As for a distant memory, continuing posting like this and you will become one yourself. You have been WARNED.

I like the description below the 001 car, translated it reads, This car has been flogged for 6,300k's.

As if you would, and by the way, you cant put a contract or deposit on it today, the Auction doesn't even start for 3 days...lol

[futura]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I like the description below the 001 car, translated it reads, This car has been flogged for 6,300k's.

As if you would, and by the way, you cant put a contract or deposit on it today, the Auction doesn't even start for 3 days...lol

Besides the ebay Auction, there is currently one GTF for sale at a dealer that I am aware off where you can walk off the street, put a deposit on it today and sign a contract! PM if your interested.

Just for the record. My GTF is not up for sale.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by futura

there is currently one GTF for sale at a dealer that I am aware off where you can walk off the street, put a deposit on it today and sign a contract! PM if your interested.

Don’t PM it.
Just put the details up here, if the Dealer hasn’t yet been able to sell it I’m sure they will welcome the interest from a free ad.

[2242100]

Originally Posted by Bent8

I think we all would be "out having some fun" if we all had one parked in the drive mate (GT-F for me thanks!)

I think this has really drawn a lot of attention because most people expected the HSV to outpower the GT-F (when you look at manufacturer claims) but here we have a smaller displacement motor (that's also non-intercooled) making more power than a larger intercooled engine!

So then the argument starts over driveline losses or wheel size etc but we all know that HSV has once again overstated their flywheel output but some people are finding this hard to accept.

To me, all this proves is that a modern DOHC motor is way more efficient at making huge amounts of power over a larger pushrod layout. Of course, you can't beat displacement for big torque numbers in the lower rev range.

Regarding your last paragraph, I think it's worth keeping in mind that GM Small blocks are just what the name suggests, small block engines. I've heard people knock them for their lower power output per cubic inch of internal swept volume, but when it comes to performance vs external size, I think the GTS Small block engine starts to look quite a bit better.

Also less valve gear up high in the engine assists with a cars centre of gravity (perhaps only a minor point) and they are lightweight engines overall.

To me comparing the internal capacities of engines VS their power output seems a bit like comparing the sizes of the rotating armatures inside electric motors.
I think most would look at output, weight and overall external size.

I'm not knocking the Miami though, an excellent engine IMO.

[40RDT]

Delete please

[devoGT]

The intake temps of the GT-F in the vid showed 50-60 degrees and the GTS temp was 24 degrees. Taking the higher intake temp as a calculation for the power output makes the reading higher to compensate for the higher intake temps, so if the GTS had another 40 degrees in intake temp the reading would have been much higher.

Isn't it funny that everyone was quick to call out VCM as being bias but now no one even mentioned the same when Herrod was appointed. And no mention of bias for the independent engineer that happens to work around the corner from the Herrod Factory

[HULK_I6T]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Showing the torque and power curves would have been nice instead of just giving a peak power number

Agree... even having them both overlayed..

im not sure I accept the dyno figure just yet..

the fpv might be in overboost for the first 10 mins of daily driving only, as soon as it heat soaks it loses overboost..hsv with its intercooler holds its lunch all day.

imagine doing laps on the track, the hsv with its intercooled lsa would be doing laps consistently where the fpv will fall away after the first 20 seconds.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

Agree... even having them both overlayed..

im not sure I accept the dyno figure just yet..

the fpv might be in overboost for the first 10 mins of daily driving only, as soon as it heat soaks it loses overboost..hsv with its intercooler holds its lunch all day.

imagine doing laps on the track, the hsv with its intercooled lsa would be doing laps consistently where the fpv will fall away after the first 20 seconds.

Please refrain from posting track time reference in this thread.

This thread is strictly for Dyno results.

If you wish to discuss lap times please post in the GTF Vs GTS lap times thread.
If you wish to discuss 1/4 mile times please post in the GTF Vs GTS 1/4 mile threads.

I you cant find either of these threads its because the GTS would win...

[Tezza]

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

Agree... even having them both overlayed..

im not sure I accept the dyno figure just yet..

the fpv might be in overboost for the first 10 mins of daily driving only, as soon as it heat soaks it loses overboost..hsv with its intercooler holds its lunch all day.

imagine doing laps on the track, the hsv with its intercooled lsa would be doing laps consistently where the fpv will fall away after the first 20 seconds.

Talk about telling half the story..... Show me where the GTS is pulling consistent numbers over the GTF?? From what I saw, there was only 1 run lower that was while the GTF was warming up. All the other dyno runs were higher than the GTS. You don't think heat soak would have set in after 8 runs if it was a factor??

[devoGT]

Originally Posted by Tezza

From what I saw, there was only 1 run lower that was while the GTF was warming up.

see my post above

[99AUXR]

Originally Posted by devoGT

The intake temps of the GT-F in the vid showed 50-60 degrees and the GTS temp was 24 degrees. Taking the higher intake temp as a calculation for the power output makes the reading higher to compensate for the higher intake temps, so if the GTS had another 40 degrees in intake temp the reading would have been much higher.

Isn't it funny that everyone was quick to call out VCM as being bias but now no one even mentioned the same when Herrod was appointed. And no mention of bias for the independent engineer that happens to work around the corner from the Herrod Factory

IIRC compensation can be removed/altered.

Also FWIW the holden engineer would've complained by now yet he was okay with how the test was carried out.

[BHDOGS]

Listen to these Holden blokes ya lost suck it up you big girls

[Tezza]

Also FWIW the holden engineer would've complained by now yet he was okay with how the test was carried out.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.... Wheels is a Holden bias magazine. This is as clear cut as it is ever going to get. Both camps were represented, 2 different dynos were used and no one who was there is disputing the results (unlike last time) therefore you have to take the results on its merits and accept it.

[futura]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Please refrain from posting track time reference in this thread.

This thread is strictly for Dyno results.

If you wish to discuss lap times please post in the GTF Vs GTS lap times thread.
If you wish to discuss 1/4 mile times please post in the GTF Vs GTS 1/4 mile threads.

I you cant find either of these threads its because the GTS would win...

Haven't you found these threads yet?

[PepeLePew]

I have one wish with regard to this topic and that is it reaches a natural conclusion soon as it borders on embarrassing. It's over. GTF took the honours while it's recognized the GTS out torques it all over the show. Next subject. The test was fair and accurate and shows the strengths and weaknesses of both. Odd how the GTS IT was lower. Maybe that intercooled does a bloody good job?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by futura

Haven't you found these threads yet?

I thought they were locked away in the depths of the archives along with Norms rep points...

[2242100]

Originally Posted by devoGT

The intake temps of the GT-F in the vid showed 50-60 degrees and the GTS temp was 24 degrees. Taking the higher intake temp as a calculation for the power output makes the reading higher to compensate for the higher intake temps, so if the GTS had another 40 degrees in intake temp the reading would have been much higher.

Isn't it funny that everyone was quick to call out VCM as being bias but now no one even mentioned the same when Herrod was appointed. And no mention of bias for the independent engineer that happens to work around the corner from the Herrod Factory

I think you might be confusing the temperature of the pressurised air in the intake manifold with the normal intake air at the front of the engine.
From what I've heard Mainline Dyno's make it very difficult to get the temperature data wrong.
The Ford apparently needed the hotter air to make the most of it's Overboost feature and it only made 292 RWKW with a 36 degree temp. You may not have heard what the Ford engineer had to say on the temperatures that they were looking for.
From looking closely at the HSV Dyno sheet, I see that the Dyno was correcting to the SAE J 607 standard (100% power is at around 15 degrees, 1013 MB and 0% humidity with this standard).
I think it gave a 2.9% plus correction and that seems about right for the conditions. The numbers are hard to read, but I believe the temp was 16.3 and the air pressure 987 mb.
Also there were HSV engineers on hand.

[82XD393.3v]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Simple? There was a thread two weeks back where the GTS was more powerful because they failed to do 10 warm up runs for the FPV.

well maybe holden and gm need to take note then they would'nt have so many engine failures and piston slap. and seriously do you flog your car till its up to operating temps that includes gearbox ffs

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by 82XD393.3v

this is about a dyno test people it is pretty simple you strap them on and run it a few times then write the results. wheels did this and now the right results are in the GT F is the most powerful car australia has ever built. No if's buts or should be's so get over it there are plenty of threads about lap times, quarter times, better car, and what if we had this instead of that.
WELL DONE FORD

No ifs no buts.....

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by 82XD393.3v

well maybe holden and gm need to take note then they would'nt have so many engine failures and piston slap. and seriously do you flog your car till its up to operating temps that includes gearbox ffs

Engine failures? Current LS motors still have piston slap? Last I heard of piston slap was back about a decade ago with some LS1 motors, I though they sorted that problem ages ago though

[DJM83]

One thing i did find interesting is that Ford were willing to admit on camera that the GTF was stock whereas HSV declined but wheels were assured off camera the GTS was stock. Did HSV see the result coming?
Maybe im reading too much into it.

[futura]

Originally Posted by DJM83

One thing i did find interesting is that Ford were willing to admit on camera that the GTF was stock whereas HSV declined but wheels were assured off camera the GTS was stock. Did HSV see the result coming?
Maybe im reading too much into it.

Definitely Reading too much into it. HSV were probably busy working on other future models (GTS Maloo ute).

[40RDT]

Speaking of future HSV models going by what's being posted on another forum there could be another ltd edition HSV release early next year, GTS-R might be making a comeback

[futura]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Speaking of future HSV models going by what's being posted on another forum there could be another ltd edition HSV release early next year, GTS-R might be making a comeback

Mr 40RDT, you never seem to amaze me. At Every opportunity you always mentioning and promoting the HSV products. Did you know there is a holden forum that you can join and talk as much Holden material to your hearts content?

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by futura

Mr 40RDT, you never seem to amaze me. At Every opportunity you always mentioning and promoting the HSV products. Did you know there is a holden forum that you can join and talk as much Holden material to your hearts content?

Why even make a HSV v FPV thread if you don't want people commenting on them

You made a comment of HSV future models I was just replying to that comment, I dont see the problem

[futura]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Why even make a HSV v FPV thread if you don't want people commenting on them

You made a comment of HSV future models I was just replying to that comment, I dont see the problem

I have no objection with people talking about a Holden HSV GTS in a comparison thread like this, but have you even noticed that just about every post of yours contain some form of holden/GTS content?

Yes, I made a comment about future HSV models, but it doesnt automatically mean we all can start talking about future HSV.

[AU1XLS]

Closed